Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

Eoin247

Did anybody watch the wasps v bath game that was on straight after the leinster match? Very good game and both those teams look far better than leinster and toulon atm. We may be lucky to win any games in our pool.

molloyjh

Eoin247 wrote: »

Did anybody watch the wasps v bath game that was on straight after the leinster match? Very good game and both those teams look far better than leinster and toulon atm. We may be luccky to win any games in our pool.

At this stage it doesn't matter whether we do or don't really. It's all about the Pro12. I'm sure the lads will be looking to make amends on Saturday and put in a good performance at home to Bath, but other than that it's all a bit irrelevant now. We screwed ourselves over last season with our seeding and really made this season an impossible one in Europe.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

At this stage it doesn't matter whether we do or don't really. It's all about the Pro12. I'm sure the lads will be looking to make amends on Saturday and put in a good performance at home to Bath, but other than that it's all a bit irrelevant now. We screwed ourselves over last season with our seeding and really made this season an impossible one in Europe.

If we were serious contenders to begin with we could have stomached this draw, we're a bit off top level European Rugby at the moment bar one off performances.

Eoin247

molloyjh wrote: »

At this stage it doesn't matter whether we do or don't really. It's all about the Pro12. I'm sure the lads will be looking to make amends on Saturday and put in a good performance at home to Bath, but other than that it's all a bit irrelevant now. We screwed ourselves over last season with our seeding and really made this season an impossible one in Europe.

I think that not winning a single game this championship is a big deal. It's something that has never happened to leinster before, will be a huge blow to morale and could affect performance in the pro 12 even.

ArmchairQB

Eoin247 wrote: »

Did anybody watch the wasps v bath game that was on straight after the leinster match? Very good game and both those teams look far better than leinster and toulon atm. We may be lucky to win any games in our pool.

No doubt we are way off where we need to be at the moment especially as an attacking force look very toothless and never threatened their line at all which is a similar trend in to many of our matches this season. World Cup Hangover, new systems etc etc all being rolled out as excuses which I have no time for every team we play has had lots of players in similar positions we are simply not good enough at the moment and some of the individual performances are very poor from players you expect more from.

CMOTDibbler

Eoin247 wrote: »

I think that not winning a single game this championship is a big deal. It's something that has never happened to leinster before, will be a huge blow to morale and could affect performance in the pro 12 even.

So far...

There are still three games to play and although I'm not sanguine about winning any of them, they are still worth putting an effort in to try and win some or all of them.

I don't agree with throwing in young players en masse. JVdF has had a run and Luke McGrath also. There's room to try a couple more but not wholesale. Leinster still can have a say in who comes out of this pool and knocking Toulon back would be a big achievement.

molloyjh

ArmchairQB wrote: »

.....every team we play has had lots of players in similar positions...

The only team who lost a similar number of players to the RWC was Glasgow, who aren't doing as well in the Pro12 and have a far easier pool but were still beaten at home by Northampton.

vienne86

Eoin247 wrote: »

Did anybody watch the wasps v bath game that was on straight after the leinster match? Very good game and both those teams look far better than leinster and toulon atm. We may be lucky to win any games in our pool.

I got to see the second half. Good game. If these two teams can manage to mess up Toulon's chances, I can stomach our bad showing.

former total

If we can win two of the remaining three games then I'll be very happy.

Losing in Bath with a bonus point - not a disaster
Losing in Toulon and not getting hammered - not a disaster

So, the only really bad result and performance was the Wasps game. Yes, it has absolutely crippled our chances of getting out of the pool but I'm not going to declare the entire season a bust because of one match that we lost badly but with a million mitigating circumstances. (There'll be plenty of others to do that...)

Judging the season starts from now.

CMOTDibbler

molloyjh wrote: »

The only team who lost a similar number of players to the RWC was Glasgow, who aren't doing as well in the Pro12 and have a far easier pool but were still beaten at home by Northampton.

Toulon also lost a lot of players to the RWC. Of the squad that started against Leinster, the following were away at the RWC (off the top of my head):

Bryan Habana, Mathieu Bastareaud, Ma'a Nonu, Drew Mitchell, Matt Giteau, Guilhem Guirado, Samu Manoa, Romain Taofifenua, Mamuka Gorgodze, Duane Vermeulen, Xavier Chiocci, Juan Smith, Maxime Mermoz.

Granted Toulon have riches in the player department beyond anyone's wildest dreams, but it's still a goodly chunk to be missing.

Clegg

Eoin Griffin coming back to Connacht.

Paves the way for another 13 to leave..

molloyjh

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Toulon also lost a lot of players to the RWC. Of the squad that started against Leinster, the following were away at the RWC (off the top of my head):

Bryan Habana, Mathieu Bastareaud, Ma'a Nonu, Drew Mitchell, Matt Giteau, Guilhem Guirado, Samu Manoa, Romain Taofifenua, Mamuka Gorgodze, Duane Vermeulen, Xavier Chiocci, Juan Smith, Maxime Mermoz.

Granted Toulon have riches in the player department beyond anyone's wildest dreams, but it's still a goodly chunk to be missing.

Yeah and Toulon played poorly as well yesterday. They just played poorly with a better squad which saw them through.

ArmchairQB

molloyjh wrote: »

The only team who lost a similar number of players to the RWC was Glasgow, who aren't doing as well in the Pro12 and have a far easier pool but were still beaten at home by Northampton.

How many players did Toulon have at the world cup who played against us on Saturday?? No justification no excuses professional players should be doing better than they are and integrate back quicker, that excuse is over now. They need to start looking closer at themselves and not looking for someone else to blame

molloyjh

ArmchairQB wrote: »

How many players did Toulon have at the world cup who played against us on Saturday?? No justification no excuses professional players should be doing better than they are and integrate back quicker, that excuse is over now. They need to start looking closer at themselves and not looking for someone else to blame

I don't think they are blaming anyone else. Also see my post above yours re Toulon.

ArmchairQB

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't think they are blaming anyone else. Also see my post above yours re Toulon.

I know but I do think it is dragging on a bit now and we as supporters are looking for excuses for the players. I would just like to see more honesty from the players and for them to front up and give us a performance. Not a disgrace to be bet by Toulon even if they weren't at their best. Need to start seeing signs that improvement and better performances are coming but not excited about anything Leinster at the moment as following on from last season we are continuing on a downward spiral and facing into very uncertain times
Grumpy Leinster Fan

molloyjh

ArmchairQB wrote: »

I know but I do think it is dragging on a bit now and we as supporters are looking for excuses for the players. I would just like to see more honesty from the players and for them to front up and give us a performance. Not a disgrace to be bet by Toulon even if they weren't at their best. Need to start seeing signs that improvement and better performances are coming but not excited about anything Leinster at the moment as following on from last season we are continuing on a downward spiral and facing into very uncertain times
Grumpy Leinster Fan

For my money Leinster have been improving week on week. It's not about excuses at all, it's about having a realistic expectation level. And to have that you need to get the context right.

Take for example 2010-11 when Joe started. He had a full pre-season with the whole squad. A squad that was better than todays one. It still took him 6 weeks to bed down his game plan and for Leinster to start to see results. Those first few weeks were actually pretty tough going and it was really only against Racing that we started to take off. Compare that to Leo who didn't have a proper pre-season with most of the guys that started yesterday and has only had them for 6 weeks. But Joe also had a far more experienced coaching set-up as well. So it would be realistic to expect that the first 6 weeks or more after the internationals came back would be tough if you used that as a yardstick.

Add to that the fact that we're in arguably the toughest pool in the history of the European competition and that the lads are coming off the back of an incredibly disappointing RWC and into a set-up where they are struggling for performances (which won't help the confidence levels) plus a bundle of injuries you just have to expect that there will be issues. This situation demands patience from the fans. Let's see how January goes for now, and then the rest of the season beyond that. We're far too early into things to make any really accurate judgements.

Chorus_suck

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former total

Chorus_suck wrote: »

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Think the point is that Joe was already well established by then so there was less of a readjustment period.

Plus, we had better players in 2011-12, and an easier group.

Chorus_suck

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JPNelsforearm

My main gripe would Sexton getting 80 mins and Boss staying on for as long as he did against Toulon. Leo hasnt shown he is even a medicore selector, with some bizzare combinations and a lack of will to give out of form players the hook in favour of youth.

irishbucsfan

Sexton had to play 80. Sexton will play 80 as long as he is capable of doing so.

As bad as some people claim he was, we're still a far better team with him at 10 than our other options.

Larbre34

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Sexton had to play 80. Sexton will play 80 as long as he is capable of doing so.

As bad as some people claim he was, we're still a far better team with him at 10 than our other options.

Not yesterday we weren't. Worst overall performance from him in a series of below par performances for the last 6 weeks.

Nobody should be untouchable.

JPNelsforearm

There is no such thing as an undroppable player. Sexton has been ordinary(and injury prone) by his standards for a good good while at this point, what is the point of having a back up if you wont use him?

former total

Chorus_suck wrote: »

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Ugh. I don't have the energy for all these people. Grand, yeah, we're sh*t, we're doomed, Cullen out.

Bridge93

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

My main gripe would Sexton getting 80 mins and Boss staying on for as long as he did against Toulon. Leo hasnt shown he is even a medicore selector, with some bizzare combinations and a lack of will to give out of form players the hook in favour of youth.

Well Luke McGrath is injured and Reddan has been dire. Boss was having one of his better games in a while.

irishbucsfan

Larbre34 wrote: »

Not yesterday we weren't. Worst overall performance from him in a series of below par performances for the last 6 weeks.

Nobody should be untouchable.

He made mistakes but the players around him are still far better for him being there. Our backline is miles better with him playing like that than it ever was in the years he was gone.

LostArt

former total wrote: »

Ugh. I don't have the energy for all these people. Grand, yeah, we're sh*t, we're doomed, Cullen out.

Sack everybody, disband the club!

Richard Hillman

Is anybody still waiting for tickets for Toulon via Ticketmaster? I bought mine on the day of release and am still waiting on a delivery.

molloyjh

Chorus_suck wrote: »

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Not convenient at all. I didn't mention it because it isn't relevant. Joe had been in place for a year and had systems established. So it's apples and oranges. But sure if you don't want to try to make an effort to understand my point that's up to yourself.