Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

WarZ

WarZ wrote: »

So basically its all down to the infamous 'world cup hangover'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU5mOT57ghM

CMOTDibbler

WarZ wrote: »

So basically its all down to the infamous 'world cup hangover'

Yes, he wrote five paragraphs that really meant three words. TLDR?

molloyjh

WarZ wrote: »

So basically its all down to the infamous 'world cup hangover'

Why quote something if you aren't going to read it?

WarZ

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Yes, he wrote five paragraphs that really meant three words. TLDR?

Point out where I am wrong?

The entire post, which I read, was essentially using the world cup as an excuse, and the internationals coming back having to adjust to Leo's new systems.

WarZ

molloyjh wrote: »

Well first you've got to remember that the internationals didn't have a pre-season with Leinster really so they were coming into a totally new set-up pretty much cold. The first few weeks was always going to be about getting settled into Leos Leinster.

On top of that the younger lads would have worked with Girv and Fogs before on the A team so there was always more familiarity there and so getting thinks to click with those guys was always going to be easier. So when compared to the internationals they would have settled in quicker (and used the pre-season to assist in that regard).

Then we have the fact we were playing stronger opposition all right. Wasps didn't have anywhere near the level of disruption that we had during the RWC and have a pretty settled set-up. They also didn't have the injury concerns before and during the game that we ended up having either. So we were a team only starting to get our heads around the new systems and missing numerous key players against a team who were pretty settled in how they played the game and weren't missing as many.

Over the last few weeks that has become less and less true and our performances have looked a bit better each week as a result. And while the above doesn't explain everything, when you consider that since the Wasps game we've probably only gotten 1 point less in 3 games than we'd have settled for (the LBP on Sunday) it shows that it's not all doom and gloom as some might suggest. Novice coaches, slight inaccuracies at times and Sextons poor form factor in as well, but if we can get the latter 2 fixed we should be in a good enough place.

We did drop off a bit when the internationals came back, but for good reason. We maybe haven't stepped it back up as quickly as we could have but we are going in the right direction. Albeit slowly.

The unbolded are the only parts not using the 'world cup hangover' excuse

CMOTDibbler

WarZ wrote: »

Point out where I am wrong?

The entire post, which I read, was essentially using the world cup as an excuse, and the internationals coming back having to adjust to Leo's new systems.

No it was not.

The only thing you've actually paraphrased is the last paragraph of five.

molloyjh

WarZ wrote: »

Point out where I am wrong?

The entire post, which I read, was essentially using the world cup as an excuse, and the internationals coming back having to adjust to Leo's new systems.

Listen you obviously have your mind made up on everything and believe yourself infallible and completely right. Of course had you read the post and my other posts from the last few days you'd have seen me talk about the appointment of inexperienced coaches, the lack of a skills coach, the form of Sexton, the injuries, the quality of opposition and still saying that there was more to it than all that.

But no, instead you just want to rant, whinge and moan. You don't want to engage or discuss. You want to preach. You want to ignore genuine substantive points of discussion in favour of pissing on everyones corn flakes and looking down on anyone who dare not think the sky is falling in on Irish rugby.

Players having to get used to new systems is a genuine and real reason for poor performances, even if you refuse to acknowledge that. It took Joe a full pre-season plus 6 weeks before he got Leinster playing the brand of rugby people remember. Leo hasn't had that AND is a less experienced coach AND has an inferior squad. If you want to ignore that and believe it doesn't count then that is up to you. You are of course completely, 100% wrong. But I can't imagine that'll trouble you too much.

Zzippy

WarZ wrote: »

So basically its all down to the infamous 'world cup hangover'

You've been warned before about posting in this manner. Post more constructively and in a less derogatory manner. Have more respect for fellow posters and you'll get that respect back.

KH25

So I see Healy has been cited. Hearing on Thursday.

Teferi

Wouldn't necessarily be devastated if he gets a week or two. Poor form at the moment.

flouncer

Zzippy wrote: »

You've been warned before about posting in this manner. Post more constructively and in a less derogatory manner. Have more respect for fellow posters and you'll get that respect back.

Zzippy you are being kept busy these days :-)

Journeyman_1

I'm shocked Healy has been cited, I didn't think it was even a yellow. I'll be disgusted if he gets a 3+ week ban.

Journeyman_1

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

I'm shocked Healy has been cited, I didn't think it was even a yellow. I'll be disgusted if he gets a 3+ week ban.

I'm sure the French player will be sportsman like and not play up for the citing commissioner to get a longer ban.

flouncer

Are you kidding me. He went in with his knee on a player with no possible defense.

CatFromHue

It was reckless at the least.

He was going to get a card on Sunday and I wouldn't have been surprised if it was red.

Journeyman_1

flouncer wrote: »

Are you kidding me. He went in with his knee on a player with no possible defense.

I don't think he went with his knee. He was starting to crouch to come into the ruck, any kneeing was accidental. He tried to buy a penalty by pushing a player on the wrong side of the ruck back into it to hold him there. this happens all the time, just not as obviously as Healy made it. Fwiw, I hate when players do this but it happens all the time in every game.

CatFromHue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT6lTCs3xKg&t=25m30s

It's pretty reckless

flouncer

It showed a complete disrespect for player safety. He physically tried to do obvious damage to a player. I have lost every bit of respect for a player who was one of my favourites.

former total

CatFromHue wrote: »

It was reckless at the least.

He was going to get a card on Sunday and I wouldn't have been surprised if it was red.

+1 on that. Citing was inevitable, suspension likewise.

JPNelsforearm

flouncer wrote: »

It showed a complete disrespect for player safety. He physically tried to do obvious damage to a player. I have lost every bit of respect for a player who was one of my favourites.

Calm down, the french lad was playing silly buggers on the wrong side, play stupid games win stupid prizes. If refs wont police the breakdown players will. Not condoning Healy, it was stupid, but I can understand his frustration

flouncer

flouncer wrote: »

It showed a complete disrespect for player safety. He physically tried to do obvious damage to a player. I have lost every bit of respect for a player who was one of my favourites.

Maybe the citing commissioner will give him the death penalty?

Squidgy Black

flouncer wrote: »

It showed a complete disrespect for player safety. He physically tried to do obvious damage to a player. I have lost every bit of respect for a player who was one of my favourites.

Ridiculous statement, didn't try to do obvious damage to any player. The Toulon hooker is smack bang in the middle of the 9's channel and on the wrong side of the ruck. Should he have cleared him out like he did when he was still trying to get to his feet? Probably not. But if it meant clearing the channel for Boss to get quick ball and getting to the next phase, yes it was the right decision. Just not executed well.

flouncer

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe the citing commissioner will give him the death penalty?

I find that such a strange opinion. He went into a tackle with the obvious intent to cause harm. And that is somehow OK. Venjur, I have never liked your opinion ( zzippy, .ak your turn) but I find it offensive to players who wish to play the game to be challenged with such malice!

irishbucsfan

A citing was absolutely inevitable and he'll be away for a few weeks now for a stupidly reckless (if not intentional) dangerous play. Not the first time either so noone should be too shocked. Really disappointing.

Stheno

irishbucsfan wrote: »

A citing was absolutely inevitable and he'll be away for a few weeks now for a stupidly reckless (if not intentional) dangerous play. Not the first time either so noone should be too shocked. Really disappointing.

Does he just suffer from brainfarts?

irishbucsfan

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Calm down, the french lad was playing silly buggers on the wrong side, play stupid games win stupid prizes. If refs wont police the breakdown players will. Not condoning Healy, it was stupid, but I can understand his frustration

Nope he was standing up after rolling away. Just totally incorrect there really.

And even if he WAS interfering with play, what Healy did will NEVER be an acceptable way to do anything about it.

Journeyman_1

I still think the knee was totally unintentional, he was bracing himself. I'll concede it was unnecessary and poorly executed but anything more than a yellow is harsh. What a ban is saying is that not only is that worth a red card but also some time at home for a few weekends which, imo, is an overreaction.

RobbieRuns

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

I still think the knee was totally unintentional, he was bracing himself. I'll concede it was unnecessary and poorly executed but anything more than a yellow is harsh. What a ban is saying is that not only is that worth a red card but also some time at home for a few weekends which, imo, is an overreaction.

I am a big fan of Healy, but they are some blue tinted glasses that you have on there ! Sorry, but the second movement and use of the knee leads me to think that he knew exactly what he was doing. It was so stupid. He was lucky that it was not red and I am not surprised at the citing. If some Toulon player had done that we would all be screaming for a big ban.

Zzippy

It was reckless the way he appeared to push/throw the player back into the ruck, but looks worse than it is. The knee, well, you see it all the time, players using their knees to hold players in rucks so it looks like they're not rolling away. I don't think he meant to knee him in the face, but he has a duty of care, so it's reckless more than intentional for me. French player definitely made a meal of it, but that of course won't be taken into account by the citing commissioner. 3 weeks would be harsh enough in my view