Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

former total

Guirado was the tackler and he's moving away as Healy arrives. He's most definitely not bound to the ruck. Healy has no right to make contact of any kind, let alone knee him in the head.

He is going to be banned.

awec

Given some of the absolute crap that Ulster have had to endure with regards to red cards and citings for in recent times I think Cian Healy can count himself very fortunate not to have been sent off during the game.

His body movement when he runs into the guy won't help, as he clearly moves his right leg into the Toulon player.

I do think it was just a moment of madness rather than anything malicious, but will be surprised if he does not pick up a ban.

molloyjh

Eponymous wrote: »

It's not up to Healy to police the ruck though. It was rash, it was stupid and a player with Healy's experience really should know better.

I'm not arguing with that at all. I'm just saying an argument could be made that he didn't actually knee Guirado or ever intended to knee him. In that case what would the ban be for?

phog

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm not arguing with that at all. I'm just saying an argument could be made that he didn't actually knee Guirado or ever intended to knee him. In that case what would the ban be for?

He didn't knee him as he ran into the ruck but he connected with his thigh and iirc (on my work laptop and YouTube is blocked) he led with the knee downwards and into Guirado and after knocking him back into the ruck.

Felexicon

flouncer wrote:

It showed a complete disrespect for player safety. He physically tried to do obvious damage to a player. I have lost every bit of respect for a player who was one of my favourites.

Oh ffs are you having a laugh?

molloyjh

phog wrote: »

He didn't knee him as he ran into the ruck but he connected with his thigh and iirc (on my work laptop and YouTube is blocked) he led with the knee downwards and into Guirado and after knocking him back into the ruck.

I thought that initially myself (about the follow through) but looking at it again he actually didn't. He didn't make contact the second time and it looks like he was just setting himself rather than looking to hit Guirado again.

shuffol

Personally I think that the conduct of the player on the receiving end should be taken into account, right now the laws seemed to be stacked in favour of players engaged in cynical play provoking a reaction from opponents, Whilst there's a fair argument that players shouldn't take the law into their own hands it's very hard for officials to properly police this type of behaviour so a lot of it ends up going unpunished. If a player commits an act with a high probability of injuring an opponent then he should be dealt with harshly but I don't really see that here. Player engages in cynical play, gets a belt for his trouble, move along.

Whilst I understand the ref punishing it at the time as it doesn't look good, in incidents like Healys I'd maybe like to see the penalty going against the original offence but the retaliating player going to the bin.

former total

I'm absolutely baffled that people think Guirado is being cynical here. He tackles McFadden as he's entitled to do, he rolls away as he is required to, he's not slowing the ball and he is not bound to anyone else when Healy hits him.

What has he done that is cynical?!

irishbucsfan

former total wrote: »

I'm absolutely baffled that people think Guirado is being cynical here. He tackles McFadden as he's entitled to do, he rolls away as he is required to, he's not slowing the ball and he is not bound to anyone else when Healy hits him.

What has he done that is cynical?!

I'm failing to comprehend it myself. He wasn't interfering with the half back and he was exiting the contact area. It's a strange case of scapegoating. Someone else said the only reason he went down was to get Healy in trouble (in the match thread I think?). It's a bit odd.

Saracen11

Mod Edit: Please read the charter - no ticket sales allowed. Also do not spam your post across several threads

Flipper22

former total wrote: »

Shades of the SOB -Pape incident here.
"Sure he hardly touched him, the French lad deserved it and anyway it was all an accident. And the dirty cheating French bastard and his doctor milking it for all its worth!"

Next logical step is someone to call for Guirado to be cited.

Lads, Healy saw an opening and knew exactly what he was doing. Guirado was in the process of rolling away. Healy is an absolute idiot and it could easily have been a red on the spot.

It wasn't a full force impact so I'd say 5 week ban, reduced to 3 for conduct at the hearing etc. No way in hell will he get away with it.

Don't think they're comparable at all to be honest. Agree with everything you say about Healy. He's done it before too.

scott1974

Manoa gone for the game on Saturday:
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/toulon-s-samu-manoa-ruled-out-of-leinster-return-game-1.2468342

So presuming Healy's gone for the weekend, that's means McGrath starting and Bent on the bench!

molloyjh

former total wrote: »

I'm absolutely baffled that people think Guirado is being cynical here. He tackles McFadden as he's entitled to do, he rolls away as he is required to, he's not slowing the ball and he is not bound to anyone else when Healy hits him.

What has he done that is cynical?!

Ah come on TF. Whatever about what Healy did, Guirado clearly intended to land the wrong side of the ruck to prevent VDF from clearing out Felon. It's pretty obvious.

former total

molloyjh wrote: »

Ah come on TF. Whatever about what Healy did, Guirado clearly intended to land the wrong side of the ruck to prevent VDF from clearing out Felon. It's pretty obvious.

He has broken no laws of the game there. None.

leftleg

former total wrote: »

He has broken no laws of the game there. None.

He has definitely impeded VDF getting a proper crocodile roll hold on Felon. If that is/isnt breaking laws is open to interpretation.

Hagz

Guirado didn't do anything worthy of a penalty. Still shouldn't have been a yellow card, regardless of what Guirado was doing.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

Ah come on TF. Whatever about what Healy did, Guirado clearly intended to land the wrong side of the ruck to prevent VDF from clearing out Felon. It's pretty obvious.

What? He's tackled McFadden, released very quickly (in comparison to us even) and then rolled away. He's doing nothing wrong there.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What? He's tackled McFadden, released very quickly (in comparison to us even) and then rolled away. He's doing nothing wrong there.

Maybe I'm being cynical, but for me he could have made that tackle and not rolled onto the Leinster side. The length of time he was there was enough to prevent VDF getting D Armitage off the ball and ultimately led to a penalty to Toulon before the Healy incident was looked at.

TeoReid

former total wrote: »

Guirado was the tackler and he's moving away as Healy arrives. He's most definitely not bound to the ruck. Healy has no right to make contact of any kind, let alone knee him in the head.

He is going to be banned.

perhaps Guirado didn't need to move back towards the Leinster try line, looks to me like he could have moved towards the near (to the camera) touch line.

that said, Healys movement just doesn't look all that natural. I think he knew he was going to push Guirado back into the ruck but got it wrong and made contact to his head. other players might have 'tripped' over Guirado to try and get the penalty because Guirado was moving to the wrong side.

a ban seems likely for Healy

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

Maybe I'm being cynical, but for me he could have made that tackle and not rolled onto the Leinster side. The length of time he was there was enough to prevent VDF getting D Armitage off the ball and ultimately led to a penalty to Toulon before the Healy incident was looked at.

But there's nothing wrong with landing on the other side of the player you're tackling, that's extremely common practice, it's done by absolutely everyone and it's not illegal. It's absolutely in now way whatsoever an excuse to do what Healy did.

Felexicon

irishbucsfan wrote:

But there's nothing wrong with landing on the other side of the player you're tackling, that's extremely common practice, it's done by absolutely everyone and it's not illegal. It's absolutely in now way whatsoever an excuse to do what Healy did.

Do you really believe that Healy kneed him in the face on purpose? If that's the decision they come to tomorrow he'll face a lengthy ban.

For what it's worth I don't think he did it on purpose and I think his disciplinary record shows he's far from a dirty player so for him to suddenly turn in to the type of lad who goes around throwing the knee in to people's face would be very strange at this stage of his career.

What he did was silly and possibly reckless and he will more than likely receive a ban tomorrow

Felexicon

molloyjh wrote:

Maybe I'm being cynical, but for me he could have made that tackle and not rolled onto the Leinster side. The length of time he was there was enough to prevent VDF getting D Armitage off the ball and ultimately led to a penalty to Toulon before the Healy incident was looked at.

Yes he could have but if he was seen to be doing something which handed an advantage/didn't hinder Leinster he'd be crucified when they were doing video analysis of the game.
This is professional sport. Guys will do anything to gain the slightest advantage and if the referee isn't pinging them for it then they will continue to push the boundaries.

irishbucsfan

Felexicon wrote: »

Do you really believe that Healy kneed him in the face on purpose? If that's the decision they come to tomorrow he'll face a lengthy ban.

For what it's worth I don't think he did it on purpose and I think his disciplinary record shows he's far from a dirty player so for him to suddenly turn in to the type of lad who goes around throwing the knee in to people's face would be very strange at this stage of his career.

What he did was silly and possibly reckless and he will more than likely receive a ban tomorrow

It's not like he hasn't been banned for a violent outburst before.

My feeling is that he did it on purpose, the way he's driven his leg through Guirado just doesn't seem natural to me, whether there's enough evidence to ban for that, I don't know, I think he'll get 3-5.

Felexicon

irishbucsfan wrote:

It's not like he hasn't been banned for a violent outburst before.

irishbucsfan wrote:

My feeling is that he did it on purpose, the way he's driven his leg through Guirado just doesn't seem natural to me, whether there's enough evidence to ban for that, I don't know, I think he'll get 3-5.

That's fair enough and you, like the rest of us, can only go by the evidence on front of your eyes and your gut feelings.

I just don't think he did that on purpose. He'd have multiple opportunities to carry out such acts in every game and he just doesn't do it with any kind of regularity.

I agree that he'll end up with a 3-5 week ban as once there is contact with the head they rarely let it go unpunished and they'll want to send a message that players must be more careful in these situations

penybont exile

Zzippy wrote: »

Anscombe? Francis? Jarvis?

Welsh born grandmothers or mother in Anscombe's case ........

Tenuous with the grannies but at least there is a connection ...... Hell if JFK was Irish .......

Bazzo

Trying to turn this aorund on Guirado is embarrassing to be honest. I'm sure he's not an angel but he's not some sort of tactical mastermind who managed to tackle, release & roll away in such a way as to impede the Leinster ruck completely on purpose and force Healy to come in with a reckless knee.

Healy will likely cop a ban and tbf he probably deserves it for a pretty brainless move.

The Pheasant2

When's the team announcement?

The Pheasant2

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

When's the team announcement?

If it hasn't happened by now it will be tomorrow, unless they are waiting until after the hearing. Hope it's not another monster hearing like the French put Sean O'Brien through during the world cup.

I'd say they'll roll out Guirado's sports psychologist to say that when he came too he swore he was Batman.

molloyjh

Deleted User wrote: »

If it hasn't happened by now it will be tomorrow, unless they are waiting until after the hearing. Hope it's not another monster hearing like the French put Sean O'Brien through during the world cup.

I'd say they'll roll out Guirado's sports psychologist to say that when he came too he swore he was Batman.

I'd say they are waiting on word on SOB as well. He was seeing a specialist today and Leinster were "hopeful". But we all know what that really means.

KH25

I doubt SOB will be fit to play this weekend.