Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

former total

Zzippy wrote: »

Healy should win the appeal. He was cleared of the charge, and found guilty of something he wasn't charged with. That's contrary to natural justice. Can't see the suspension being upheld.

Yeah I think that's the most likely outcome. Very odd course of events.

Flipper22

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Healy's been useless since he returned from injury. He shouldn't have been starting most of the matches he has. In my opinion.

He was very good on Sunday.

Hagz

Apparently the judiciary is well within its rights to amend the offence for which a player is cited under Regulation 17.23.2 provided such an amendment can be made without causing injustice.

aimee1

Hagz wrote: »

Apparently the judiciary is well within its rights to amend the offence for which a player is cited under Regulation 17.23.2 provided such an amendment can be made without causing injustice.

surely he has to be given a chance to defend himself against a new charge?

molloyjh

Zzippy wrote: »

Healy should win the appeal. He was cleared of the charge, and found guilty of something he wasn't charged with. That's contrary to natural justice. Can't see the suspension being upheld.

It will be interesting to see what happens all right. Seems I wasn't being too pedantic when I said he didn't actually knee him after all.

irishbucsfan

If Healy gets off due to the incompetence of the JO then he's a very lucky guy. Hope it still gives him pause for thought before he does that sort of thing again.

leftleg

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/negotiations-between-ian-madigan-and-bordeaux-at-advanced-stage-reports-34298200.html

vienne86

leftleg wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/negotiations-between-ian-madigan-and-bordeaux-at-advanced-stage-reports-34298200.html

Hmmm. Independent not the mst reliable source, but a move to Bordeaux might be the making of him.

aimee1

vienne86 wrote: »

Hmmm. Independent not the mst reliable source, but a move to Bordeaux might be the making of him.

I think he should go too. He needs to make the most of his career and going shouldnt be the end of his international ambitions either.

sydthebeat

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If Healy gets off due to the incompetence of the JO then he's a very lucky guy. Hope it still gives him pause for thought before he does that sort of thing again.

agreed

but no harm for the JO or the CC to get their wings clipped a bit.

I think its ridiculous that a CC can cite a player for something that the referee and match TMO viewed multiple times and adjudged it to be a yellow card offense.

Basically the CC is saying bluntly that Nigel Owens made the wrong decision, and the CC and the JO would make better decisions, which is a very presumptuous thing to do.

CMOTDibbler

sydthebeat wrote: »

agreed

but no harm for the JO or the CC to get their wings clipped a bit.

I think its ridiculous that a CC can cite a player for something that the referee and match TMO viewed multiple times and adjudged it to be a yellow card offense.

Basically the CC is saying bluntly that Nigel Owens made the wrong decision, and the CC and the JO would make better decisions, which is a very presumptuous thing to do.

But that's always the case. Most yellow card offences are looked at again because there isn't time for the refs to go over every possible angle and make a definitive decision. Refs should always err on the side of a YC to ensure fairness. We've seen instances of RCs given out where nothing worse then a penalty was warranted. I doubt refs would get upset about it, the CC is there to back them up and cover off anything that was missed.

I'm not sure how the JO is being seen as incompetent. Unless people believe that Healy did actually strike with the knee (which the video evidence doesn't seem to support) then he couldn't really discipline him for that. The laws do give authority to change the offence, but by the same token Healy has the right to defend that charge separately which is why Leinster are appealing I'd imagine.

CMOTDibbler

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

But that's always the case. Most yellow card offences are looked at again because there isn't time for the refs to go over every possible angle and make a definitive decision. Refs should always err on the side of a YC to ensure fairness. We've seen instances of RCs given out where nothing worse then a penalty was warranted. I doubt refs would get upset about it, the CC is there to back them up and cover off anything that was missed.

I'm not sure how the JO is being seen as incompetent. Unless people believe that Healy did actually strike with the knee (which the video evidence doesn't seem to support) then he couldn't really discipline him for that. The laws do give authority to change the offence, but by the same token Healy has the right to defend that charge separately which is why Leinster are appealing I'd imagine.

To my mind, this shouldn't have been cited (the citing commissioner can look at it all day before he refers it). It's clear enough from the video that it was thigh to forhead and that should be that.

But. It seems anything now that involved contact with the head must be seen to have action taken and in this case they weren't prepared to let it go because of the optics so came up with a nonsense "minor" charge.

I hope it get's overturned so we can focus a little more on actual rugby, and not French dramatics.

irishbucsfan

Whether or not it's thigh to the forehead doesn't matter to me, it's not like Cian Healy's thighs are made of marshmallow or like it excuses his cheap shot, for me it looks intentional anyway regardless of which part of his leg hit the player. He should cop a ban for it but he might get lucky on this one.

former total

Deleted User wrote: »

To my mind, this shouldn't have been cited (the citing commissioner can look at it all day before he refers it). It's clear enough from the video that it was thigh to forhead and that should be that.

But. It seems anything now that involved contact with the head must be seen to have action taken and in this case they weren't prepared to let it go because of the optics so came up with a nonsense "minor" charge.

I hope it get's overturned so we can focus a little more on actual rugby, and not French dramatics.

Lol. Is "thigh to forehead" allowed under the rules?

former total

former total wrote: »

Lol. Is "thigh to forehead" allowed under the rules?

It's encouraged... RAAWHR

sydthebeat

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

But that's always the case. Most yellow card offences are looked at again because there isn't time for the refs to go over every possible angle and make a definitive decision. Refs should always err on the side of a YC to ensure fairness. We've seen instances of RCs given out where nothing worse then a penalty was warranted. I doubt refs would get upset about it, the CC is there to back them up and cover off anything that was missed.

I'm not sure how the JO is being seen as incompetent. Unless people believe that Healy did actually strike with the knee (which the video evidence doesn't seem to support) then he couldn't really discipline him for that. The laws do give authority to change the offence, but by the same token Healy has the right to defend that charge separately which is why Leinster are appealing I'd imagine.

warning: bit of a rant

i have no problem at all with sceanarios being cited that the referee didnt see, or saw and made an instant decision without being reviewed etc (SOB on pape)

But i do have an issue with a incident being cited where the referee and AR saw, reviewed with the TMO, and a decision made to yellow card. (Healy on Guiardo)

In my opinion, if a citing commissioner is to cite those incidents, they should be made sit with the referee and TMO during his deliberations and ask them to explain their though process to come to their decision. If something new appears that they hadnt considered, then fair enough the CC would be well within their rights to assess this new information, with the ref and TMO, and decide if the new information would have lead to a different decision.

If this process of the ref, TMO and CC conversing after the game to explain decisions on a reviewed incident, then we would get a much more uniform standard between refs, CCs and JO's. As it is there seems to be a very large disconnect between referees standards and the bans offered 'after the fact' on reviewed incidents.

Sanjuro

Leinster vs. Toulon

15. Rob Kearney
14. Dave Kearney
13. Ben Te'o
12. Luke Fitzgerald
11. Isa Nacewa CAPTAIN
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Eoin Reddan
1. Jack McGrath
2. Richardt Strauss
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Rhys Ruddock
7. Josh van der Flier
8. Jamie Heaslip

16. Sean Cronin
17. Cian Healy
18. Marty Moore
19. Tom Denton
20. Jordi Murphy
21. Nick McCarthy
22. Ian Madigan
23. Zane Kirchner

awec

Fair enough team, no surprises really.

former total

Nick McCarthy!!!

What happened to Boss? I know McFadden sat out training during the week but hadn't heard anything about Boss.

Edit: hamstring strain: http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/14382.php#.VnP20_mLTIU

Also: lol at #17

LostArt

Meh, no real surprises I suppose. I'd have stuck Moloney and Ringrose on the bench though.

sydthebeat

need reddan to have a supernova !

scott1974

Healy on the bench!!

vienne86

Healy on the bench????

And Nick McCarthy on the bench - is Luke McGrath still injured? Obvously yes, I suppose. And I hadn't realised Boss was injured.

Decent team though, but not other suprises.

Sangre

Has Nick MacCarthy ever played a senior game?

LostArt

Sangre wrote: »

Has Nick MacCarthy ever played a senior game?

all I can remember is the Ulster pre season game.

former total

Sangre wrote: »

Has Nick MacCarthy ever played a senior game?

No.

No pressure then Nick. Just Toulon at the Aviva.

awec

Completely missed his name in the list.

I guess the plan is for 80 minutes of Reddan.

molloyjh

Well now I'm just downright nervous.

Can't argue with the starting line-up at all. I know there were concerns about Boss during the game last week (Leo mentioned it post match when asked why Mads came on so late) and with McGrath still injured we're down to our only 2 SH options. But why in Gods name are Denton and Kirchner there ahead of Molony and Ringrose? Particularly Denton.

Teferi

Healy on the bench provisionally surely? No way his appeal will be accepted.

LostArt

Why not? He didn't get to defend the new charge.