Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

Eoin247

Have to say, that was one of the most disappointing endings to a match I've seen in a long time. Good game for the most part though. I wasnt expecting too much from Leinster yesterday, but 20 mins into the game I started to truly believe in the team again which made the ending so much harder.

After those first 20 mins though they started sputtering and completely fell down 60 mins into the game. Have to think that this is going to be awful for the players morale, they looked like they tried so hard yesterday and still came away with nothing.

I worry that the poor performance of leinster will adversely affect Ireland's performance next year.

vienne86

aimee1 wrote: »

Kirchner? Has he signed on for two more seasons tho?

He has another season to go.

sydthebeat

In truth, that was anything but a poor performance. It was actually our best performance this season to date. We played all the best rugby and seemed to be able to open up their back line far easier than their could ours. (fitz was excellent again)

What beat us was their sheer strength. Big lumps of guys who just keep battering and battering. Giteau had an awful day, Mitchell was asleep, habana did nothing, nonu was turned inside out by luke on three or four occasions.

The strength of the bench was also an obvious factor. Where they could bring in gorgodze for taifefiuna, we had Denton for mac. No slight on Denton, I'm just highlighting the gulf. Also, out set piece parity went to crap after nuggett came on. I don't blame the scrum on him, but his lineouts were bad. The one he threw over toner on our 5m line was criminal. What he brings in open play, he looses in set piece. Healy is only a shadow of his former self.

Mads also showed again his limitations at 10. After sexton went off, on the first two clean balls at the base of rucks, he stood at second receiver. More than once we found ourselves without a 10 because he was at the bottom of a ruck.

All in all, I was very encouraged after the game, bitterly disappointed because of the effort they put in. Still, that's two years in a row where toulon have been put to the pin of their collar by us.

whatawaster

Fitzgerald has really put his hand up for Ireland (as centre) in the 6N. Two excellent performances against the best team in Europe. That footwork and ability to evade defenses is something we aren't exactly blessed with at the moment

shuffol

Mike has done his hamstring, so we’ll get is assessed. It is intact at least, but it’s a pretty significant hamstring strain/tear. Johnny has had a bit of tightness in his quad during the week, again he has come off with that.

Doesn't sound good for Ross but I'd like to see Moore get a run of games to see if he can nail down the starting berth, for a TH prop he's phenomenal defensively, great agility in the tackle and a rock when he gets over the ball.

matthew8

I don't see how anyone could be happy with yesterday. The second half performance offered nothing. The set piece completely fell apart and any exit strategy was completely ineffective. A lot of people are bringing up the gulf between Denton and their bench, he's literally the only Leinster forward on the bench who's not an Irish international, and the team had been under big pressure for a long time before he came on. By the end of the match we were fortunate to be within a score.

padser

shuffol wrote: »

Doesn't sound good for Ross but I'd like to see Moore get a run of games to see if he can nail down the starting berth, for a TH prop he's phenomenal defensively, great agility in the tackle and a rock when he gets over the ball.

True, but we got pushed around like rag dolls in the scrum when Ross came off.

The rest of the tight 5 at that time was Healy, Strauss, Toner and McCarthy. No reason why that tight should be demolished so for me you have to look at the TH.

First and foremost, I want my tight head to lock out the scrum

.ak

matthew8 wrote: »

I don't see how anyone could be happy with yesterday. The second half performance offered nothing. The set piece completely fell apart and any exit strategy was completely ineffective. A lot of people are bringing up the gulf between Denton and their bench, he's literally the only Leinster forward on the bench who's not an Irish international, and the team had been under big pressure for a long time before he came on. By the end of the match we were fortunate to be within a score.

All I can say is imagine if we were 0/4 in Europe under MOC. Lot of double standards going on IMO.

aimee1

matthew8 wrote: »

I don't see how anyone could be happy with yesterday. The second half performance offered nothing. The set piece completely fell apart and any exit strategy was completely ineffective. A lot of people are bringing up the gulf between Denton and their bench, he's literally the only Leinster forward on the bench who's not an Irish international, and the team had been under big pressure for a long time before he came on. By the end of the match we were fortunate to be within a score.

Healy is still trying to find his best form, The back up 9 made his leinster senior debut last night, Denton is a good bit off international standard. Kirchner is a good player but nothing more then that.

The first half last night was very good from leinster. There is huge areas that require improvement which has been acknowledged but its not all doom and gloom the way you seem to think.

Leinster had 3 NIQs in the 23 last night. How would Toulon do if they could only have 5 Non French qualified players in their 23? They bring on STB to replace Escande, Leinster had Nick McCarthy on debut to replace Reddan.

thomond2006

.ak wrote: »

All I can say is imagine if we were 0/4 in Europe under MOC. Lot of double standards going on IMO.

It's worth pointing out that Leinster's group last year was one of the easiest, this year they have arguably the toughest.

matthew8

aimee1 wrote: »

Healy is still trying to find his best form, The back up 9 made his leinster senior debut last night, Denton is a good bit off international standard. Kirchner is a good player but nothing more then that.

The first half last night was very good from leinster. There is huge areas that require improvement which has been acknowledged but its not all doom and gloom the way you seem to think.

Leinster had 3 NIQs in the 23 last night. How would Toulon do if they could only have 5 Non French qualified players in their 23? They bring on STB to replace Escande, Leinster had Nick McCarthy on debut to replace Reddan.

Nick McCarthy played all of 4 minutes, Zane Kirchner was good enough to make South Africa's world cup squad. Looking for silver linings after losing the first 4 pool games isn't good enough for Leinster. This isn't a development side.

.ak

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's worth pointing out that Leinster's group last year was one of the easiest, this year they have arguably the toughest.

Ah to be honest I'm not concerned with results. I'm very aware of context and I'll give Leo the patience I gave MOC. But a lot of people here were using the results stick last season and I just find it funny it's relatively subdued despite the woeful results on paper.

aimee1

matthew8 wrote: »

Nick McCarthy played all of 4 minutes, Zane Kirchner was good enough to make South Africa's world cup squad. Looking for silver linings after losing the first 4 pool games isn't good enough for Leinster. This isn't a development side.

precisely the point im making. McCarthy was brought on with 4 minutes to go, they have a french international to bring on after 50 minutes. Leinster are having to give game time to guys they develop but Toulon dont. So in effect leinster are a development side for themselves and the irish national team

Look at the backrow. Heaslip, Ruddock, VDF and Jordi up against Smith, Armitage, Vermuelen and Lobbe.

All developed within Leinster against all bought in. They are bringing in ready made players t will. If Leinster had endlessly deep pockets and no NIQ restrictions things would be different. So I dont think the situation is as bad as some people make it out to be.

Clegg

Anyone else notice the recent revisionism surrounding Gopperth's time at Leinster? He was thoroughly average outside of a handful of games and to suggest otherwise is just people wanting to have having a dig.

Hagz

What happened to Ben Te'o? This image has me a bit worried.

.ak

Clegg wrote: »

Anyone else notice the recent revisionism surrounding Gopperth's time at Leinster? He was thoroughly average outside of a handful of games and to suggest otherwise is just people wanting to have having a dig.

Revisionism where? Nobody ever claimed he was a world beater, but just that he was rightfully first choice.

.ak

Hope Teo is ok, himself and Luke have been head and shoulders above everyone in the back line.

shuffol

.ak wrote: »

Ah to be honest I'm not concerned with results. I'm very aware of context and I'll give Leo the patience I gave MOC. But a lot of people here were using the results stick last season and I just find it funny it's relatively subdued despite the woeful results on paper.

The performances were for the most part very poor under MOC for the 2 seasons, the first season they were excused somewhat because of the results but last season that argument wasn't there to fall back on so it's only natural questions were asked. If you think back to the Quins double header last season we really were playing awful stuff.

I'd always put more stock into performances than results when judging a coach, there are so many variables outside their control that can effect a result.

molloyjh

shuffol wrote: »

The performances were for the most part very poor under MOC for the 2 seasons, the first season they were excused somewhat because of the results but last season that argument wasn't there to fall back on so it's only natural questions were asked. If you think back to the Quins double header last season we really were playing awful stuff.

I'd always put more stock into performances than results when judging a coach, there are so many variables outside their control that can effect a result.

Yeah as I said on the match thread, last season and the season before I was waiting for us to be found out based on our performances. This season I'm waiting for us to click. You reap what you sow in terms of performance over time and things are far more positive on that front than any time in the last 2 seasons. It was never going to get totally fixed this season, especially not in Europe, but we are going in the right direction.

Clegg

It's probably a bit too early to reach a a firm conclusion, but Ulster look so much better now Kiss is getting settled into the job. Might be one of the benefits of having a proven coach at the helm.

Hagz

Sure it was only a couple of weeks ago it was all doom and gloom with Ulster. It's never as bad as you think and it's never as good as you think.

awec

Hagz wrote: »

Sure it was only a couple of weeks ago it was all doom and gloom with Ulster. It's never as bad as you think and it's never as good as you think.

Actually a few weeks ago we were genuinely rubbish and had been for ages.

The turnaround has been remarkable, and I say that as someone who wasn't convinced Kiss would offer much. No way we'd have got these results with Doak.

AbusesToilets

awec wrote: »

Actually a few weeks ago we were genuinely rubbish and had been for ages.

The turnaround has been remarkable, and I say that as someone who wasn't convinced Kiss would offer much. No way we'd have got these results with Doak.

You think you have the back row to mount a challenge this year in Cup?

The Rape of Lucretia

Hagz wrote: »

What happened to Ben Te'o? This image has me a bit worried.

Dont worry.

Its his right forearm that he leads into the faces of people coming to tackle him.

awec

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You think you have the back row to mount a challenge this year in Cup?

Nah. We're doing alright but the big guns would blow us away.

Zzippy

Sexton a doubt for the Munster game. Could be Madigan auditioning for the job of his opposite number. A Possibles v Probables trial of old...

Eponymous

Looks like Ross is gone for a bit... http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/mike-ross-could-miss-start-of-six-nations-campaign-1.2474034

Journeyman_1

I said at the game that Ross didnt look good and it could be serious. Sounds good about SOB though!

sydthebeat

Zzippy wrote: »

Sexton a doubt for the Munster game. Could be Madigan auditioning for the job of his opposite number. A Possibles v Probables trial of old...

****e!

my confidence of a good result just fell by 50%

molloyjh

Leinster are hopeful that Sexton and SOB will be available this weekend.

TRANSLATION:

Neither Sexton nor SOB will be available this weekend.