Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

aimee1

Eponymous wrote: »

That we can't compete with the likes of Worcester for spending power says something, but I would have thought that having seen how the Burgess experiment went so badly wrong Teo might have felt some loyalty and gratitude for being able to learn and adjust to Union here without the pressure.

Absolutely gutted.

Ringrose and Henshaw in the middle of the park for us though is a thrilling proposition if the former can get some quality time in the remainder of the season.

Dont think its spending power more he cant play for England while at leinster. Reckon thats his goal anyway.

errlloyd

Tbh Te'o is still just potential. I love the guy, but I got really mad at him during one of our recent European games, he gave away like 3 or 4 penalties for brainless stuff and it get's old. At the same time although he reliable makes the gainline and can offload, he hasn't done that much of it in big games.

former total

aimee1 wrote: »

Dont think its spending power more he cant play for England while at leinster. Reckon thats his goal anyway.

It's also extremely possible that Leinster simply weren't allowed renew his contract. Nucifora and Schmidt could easily have vetoed it for either of two reasons:
1) They have high hopes for Ringrose and want to clear a path
2) There is already a replacement 13 lined up, from within Ireland. I'll mention no names.

We just don't know but I'd be surprised if there was much of a bidding war.

awec

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Any mention of which NZ 9s they are going after? There's a few good ones that would be worth looking at.

This obsession with Henshaw going to Leinster has to stop. It would make more sense to go after one of McCluskey, Marshall, Cave or Payne. That would be much more beneficial for Ireland.

It's mental how people come on here and list some of the best players at another province as the ones Leinster should go after.

Maybe Ulster should go after O'Brien, McGrath and Sexton?

WallyGUFC

awec wrote: »

It's mental how people come on here and list some of the best players at another province as the ones Leinster should go after.

Maybe Ulster should go after O'Brien, McGrath and Sexton?

How do you think Connacht fans feel

CatFromHue

awec wrote: »

It's mental how people come on here and list some of the best players at another province as the ones Leinster should go after.

Maybe Ulster should go after O'Brien, McGrath and Sexton?

Leinster need a centre and Ulster have loads. It's not that difficult to understand really.

awec

CatFromHue wrote: »

Leinster need a centre and Ulster have loads. It's not that difficult to understand really.

Which automatically means Ulster should send Leinster their best centres (Payne excluded)? Ha! I think not.

Ulster need a back row. Can we have O'Brien and VDF?

CatFromHue

You can have Dom Ryan and you be thankful for him

Yeah_Right

awec wrote: »

It's mental how people come on here and list some of the best players at another province as the ones Leinster should go after.

Maybe Ulster should go after O'Brien, McGrath and Sexton?

So next season who is Ulster's starting midfield and back 3 out of McCluskey, Marshall, Payne, Cave, Olding, Trimble, Gilroy, Bowe, Piutau and whoever else I missed?

Surely it makes sense for at least one of them to look to move to another province for game time and the opportunity to secure a regular Irish spot.

And yes it would also make sense for one of Leinster's back row to look to move. And their front rowers as well.

awec

CatFromHue wrote: »

You can have Dom Ryan and you be thankful for him

We should be able to find some 16 year old academy player somewhere to swap for him.

connachta

Yeah_Right wrote: »

So next season who is Ulster's starting midfield and back 3 out of McCluskey, Marshall, Payne, Cave, Olding, Trimble, Gilroy, Bowe, Piutau and whoever else I missed?

Surely it makes sense for at least one of them to look to move to another province for game time and the opportunity to secure a regular Irish spot.

And yes it would also make sense for one of Leinster's back row to look to move. And their front rowers as well.

If Henshaw wants Blue and nothing else, despite everything everyone said to him, I'd be happy with one of Olding/Cave moving to West..

AdamD

errlloyd wrote: »

Tbh Te'o is still just potential. I love the guy, but I got really mad at him during one of our recent European games, he gave away like 3 or 4 penalties for brainless stuff and it get's old. At the same time although he reliable makes the gainline and can offload, he hasn't done that much of it in big games.

Hes also mad for hitting players who've already passed the ball instead of drifting, pretty brainless player tbh. I see no reason why we should play him for the rest of the season either, give Fitz/Reid/Ringrose the game time.

awec

Yeah_Right wrote: »

So next season who is Ulster's starting midfield and back 3 out of McCluskey, Marshall, Payne, Cave, Olding, Trimble, Gilroy, Bowe, Piutau and whoever else I missed?

Surely it makes sense for at least one of them to look to move to another province for game time and the opportunity to secure a regular Irish spot.

And yes it would also make sense for one of Leinster's back row to look to move. And their front rowers as well.

It's very unlikely anyone on that list will move to Leinster. You also missed out Arnold. Olding, McCloskey, Cave, Gilroy and Trimble are just too good to let go. Possibly Marshall too with his new found form.

IMO it's way more likely that anyone not happy with their game time will move across to England.

connachta

awec wrote: »

It's very unlikely anyone on that list will move to Leinster. You also missed out Arnold.

IMO it's way more likely that anyone not happy with their game time will move across to England.

Why England instead of another less-stuck Irish province? Are you part of IRFU or RFU?

Triumvirate

Eponymous wrote: »

That we can't compete with the likes of Worcester for spending power says something.

Not really. Worcester are privately owned by a multi-millionaire. We can't compete financially with the likes of Bristol either and they're not even in the AP.

awec

connachta wrote: »

Why England instead of another less-stuck Irish province? Are you part of IRFU or RFU?

I just think it more likely, especially for the likes of Cave who has quite frankly had enough of being overlooked I am sure.

connachta

Triumvirate wrote: »

with the likes of Bristol.

Darren Hudson for Connacht or Munster please!!!!!

Triumvirate

Ulster players who have looked for a move have, more often than not, gone to Britain rather than south of the border. Wilson, Steenson, Witten, Neil Best, Tom Court, Paddy McAllister, Tommy Bowe, John Andress, Michael Allen, Tommy Seymour. All went from Ulster across the water as opposed to other provinces where they'd have gotten a game.

For whatever reason, cultural, sterling etc. any departure is probably more likely to see someone joining a club in England or Scotland than another province when it comes to Ulster.

connachta

Triumvirate wrote: »

Ulster players who have looked for a move have, more often than not, gone to Britain rather than south of the border. Wilson, Steenson, Witten, Neil Best, Tom Court, Paddy McAllister, Tommy Bowe, John Andress, Michael Allen, Tommy Seymour. All went from Ulster across the water as opposed to other provinces where they'd have gotten a game.

For whatever reason, cultural, sterling etc. any departure is probably more likely to see someone joining a club in England or Scotland than another province when it comes to Ulster.

You can add Annett to your list. And it's a big problem for IRFU. Moves from West to North and vice versa had been successful, like Faloon/McComish. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be developped to a greater extent

CatFromHue

Alot of those guys wouldn't have gotten a game, or much game time, at Leinster or Munster when they were leaving and Connacht weren't up to much at the time either.

awec

Well in the days of professionalism I would guess there hasn't really been much need for it. Until recently most fringe Ulster players wouldn't have got into the Leinster or Munster team anyway.

It has happened with Connacht because that was the level for our fringe guys in the past.

connachta

awec wrote: »

It has happened with Connacht because that was the level for our fringe guys in the past.

You have 8 Centres, and Connacht still would love your "fringe guys", because, this time, they are Olding and Cave

former total

Triumvirate wrote: »

Ulster players who have looked for a move have, more often than not, gone to Britain rather than south of the border. Wilson, Steenson, Witten, Neil Best, Tom Court, Paddy McAllister, Tommy Bowe, John Andress, Michael Allen, Tommy Seymour. All went from Ulster across the water as opposed to other provinces where they'd have gotten a game.

For whatever reason, cultural, sterling etc. any departure is probably more likely to see someone joining a club in England or Scotland than another province when it comes to Ulster.

To be honest, all those players would have had to go to Connacht to get a game (with the exception of Bowe) and that wasn't nearly as attractive at the time as it might be now.

molloyjh

scott1974 wrote: »

It's the name that has been mostly linked with a move to Leinster (by most media), people didn't pick it out of the air. Also what other names have been linked ...none that I can think of at the moment.
I'm sure we'll see what Nucifora has in store in the new year. He doesn't give a hoot about the procinces

That's just not true. His job is one that requires him to balance the needs of the provinces and the national team. He's also working on other areas of the game in Ireland too. It's just not possible for him to do his job AND give the provinces everything they want at the same time.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

It's mental how people come on here and list some of the best players at another province as the ones Leinster should go after.

Maybe Ulster should go after O'Brien, McGrath and Sexton?

Ah stop will ya. Yeah_Right was simply saying that getting some of the best centres in the country regular game time at the top levels would be the most logical thing from an Irish point of view. Which is a fair point. And Ulster simply can't accommodate all those guys. Comparing McGrath might have some merit (although not at the moment given Healys form) but comparing the other two is completely ludicrous as they are way out in front of the competition and so never going to be lacking for game time.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

It's very unlikely anyone on that list will move to Leinster. You also missed out Arnold. Olding, McCloskey, Cave, Gilroy and Trimble are just too good to let go. Possibly Marshall too with his new found form.

IMO it's way more likely that anyone not happy with their game time will move across to England.

You see this right here is exactly the kind of attitude we need to do away with.

You guys have Payne, Cave, McCloskey, Marshall, Olding, Arnold, Trimble, Bowe, Gilroy and Piutau. That's 10 quality players, plus whatever squad guys like Nelson as well. You can only have 6 in any match day 23, 7 at the most. That leaves 3 or 4 guys simply not getting game time at the top level. Yet you refuse to let 1 go because they are too good?

There is no way that any province should get another provinces first choice guys unless the player in question themselves is looking for the move. And each province should be able to hold onto a few others to cover injuries and the bench etc. But after that players should be encouraged to move. It is the best thing for them, for the provinces in general (as we'll all benefit from these moves ultimately) and the national side. And the simple fact is that Ulster have more outside backs than they can use so we should be encouraging 1 or 2 to move to other provinces.

In the same way Leinster have more back row players than they can use and so some of those should be encouraged to move. That the 3rd choice Ulster centres are a better quality than the 3rd choice Leinster back rows is irrelevant. What is relevant is that they will get more game time elsewhere and they deserve that. And by not encouraging this we're all suffering.

awec

The chances of them all being fit and available at the same time is close to nil. Look at the list right now. Olding, Cave, Payne and Bowe are injured.

Arnold is the only guy not getting game time yet and he hasn't really broken into the first team yet anyway.

But as said, if any of these guys do move I'd be very surprised if they move south.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

The chances of them all being fit and available at the same time is close to nil. Look at the list right now. Olding, Cave, Payne and Bowe are injured.

Arnold is the only guy not getting game time yet and he hasn't really broken into the first team yet anyway.

But as said, if any of these guys do move I'd be very surprised if they move south.

But then isn't that a loss to Ulster and to Ireland? Nobody wins there really.

As I said you should be able to hold on to a few to cover injuries but the simple fact is that when push comes to shove you'll be preventing a number of potentially international class players from playing much above Pro12 level.

Richard Hillman

Teo has been one of the bright sparks over the last couple of years. I suppose we will be replacing him with some middle table ITM Cup guy.

Trippie

Is there also something to be said about a high quality group of guys pushing themselves to be the best? everyone wants to play and with limited space that might mean they all have to improve or else they sit at home doing nothing