Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

awec

molloyjh wrote: »

But then isn't that a loss to Ulster and to Ireland? Nobody wins there really.

As I said you should be able to hold on to a few to cover injuries but the simple fact is that when push comes to shove you'll be preventing a number of potentially international class players from playing much above Pro12 level.

Ulster lose out either way.

I agree it would benefit Ireland if they stayed in Ireland but I am pretty sure they would be financially better off in the UK.

b.gud

3 more years for O'Brien http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/36503.php#.VnllWN_hCEI

scott1974

molloyjh wrote: »

That's just not true. His job is one that requires him to balance the needs of the provinces and the national team. He's also working on other areas of the game in Ireland too. It's just not possible for him to do his job AND give the provinces everything they want at the same time.

Ok. Maybe I'm being a bit dramatic but I'd say his priority I'd Ireland. That's where the money cones from

CatFromHue

b.gud wrote: »

3 more years for O'Brien http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/36503.php#.VnllWN_hCEI

That one snuck in under the radar

b.gud

CatFromHue wrote: »

That one snuck in under the radar

Yeah it did alright, good to see it getting wrapped up early without all the speculation of him moving to France or England

former total

CatFromHue wrote: »

That one snuck in under the radar

I was reading in the Times there that a lifetime supply of Supermacs snack boxes and cheese fries blew Toulon out of the water. Good to know we can still compete.

Clegg

Is it wise to give someone with an extensive injury record such a long contract? Not saying I'm not delighted he's staying, but three years is a long time.

Richard Hillman

Clegg wrote: »

Is it wise to give someone with an extensive injury record such a long contract? Not saying I'm not delighted he's staying, but three years is a long time.

I was thinking that myself.

Healy is due a new contract too. The point of central contracts is to prevent player burnout that may occur if they go to France/England.

I dont think we really need to be too worried about SOB and Healy suffering from burnout.

thomond2006

Not sure if it's been mentioned already but Nick Evans has signed an extension with Harlequins. He is/was one of the best paid players in England so I can't see them offering Madigan big money also.

the perfect ten

thomond2006 wrote: »

Not sure if it's been mentioned already but Nick Evans has signed an extension with Harlequins. He is/was one of the best paid players in England so I can't see them offering Madigan big money also.

He is also still one of the best outhalves in The Premiership.

Stheno

Clegg wrote: »

Is it wise to give someone with an extensive injury record such a long contract? Not saying I'm not delighted he's staying, but three years is a long time.

I was thinking the same thing!

JPNelsforearm

Clegg wrote: »

Is it wise to give someone with an extensive injury record such a long contract? Not saying I'm not delighted he's staying, but three years is a long time.

Dennis Leamy springs to mind...

jacothelad

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Any mention of which NZ 9s they are going after? There's a few good ones that would be worth looking at.

This obsession with Henshaw going to Leinster has to stop. It would make more sense to go after one of McCluskey, Marshall, Cave or Payne. That would be much more beneficial for Ireland.

whatawaster wrote: »

Olding! Olding! Olding! Olding!

McCloskey is a 12 and it looks like only a 12.
Marshall is a 10 /13 who was shoehorned into 12 by McLaughlin
Cave is 13 and occasional 12 by Schmidiktat
Payne is a 15 operating at 13.
Olding is a 10 /12 / 13 / 15. He is actually Ulster's second best 10.
Nelson can play all across the back-line to a good standard.
Ulster need all of those guys to cover all the eventualities that occur over a season. Injuries and illness, rotation and tackle bag holding at Carton House. One or two might even get to play for the Wolfhounds.
Most of the above players are pretty much international quality - there or thereabouts, maybe not Nelson.

Guys like Bowe and Trimble are on the down-slope age wise. Next season may well see the finish of Bowe and Trimble won't be far behind.

I'm pretty sure if Cave wanted to leave it would be to England or France. He would be just as easily ignored in Dublin as Belfast.
So. Ulster says "Probably not."

Nelson might fancy a few years at the RDS. He's a great squad player and in fact is currently the fastest player in the whole Ulster squad.

connachta wrote: »

Why England instead of another less-stuck Irish province? Are you part of IRFU or RFU?

Only when it suits the IRFU.

molloyjh wrote: »

But then isn't that a loss to Ulster and to Ireland? Nobody wins there really.

As I said you should be able to hold on to a few to cover injuries but the simple fact is that when push comes to shove you'll be preventing a number of potentially international class players from playing much above Pro12 level.

Well there is the language barrier......:D:D...and the currency situation.:D

The Leinster Academy is chock-a-block with great young prospects in the backs.

typhoony

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Any mention of which NZ 9s they are going after? There's a few good ones that would be worth looking at.

This obsession with Henshaw going to Leinster has to stop. It would make more sense to go after one of McCluskey, Marshall, Cave or Payne. That would be much more beneficial for Ireland.

agreed equal treatment should mean that the best players stay with their province

stephen_n

In Henshaws case, is it not very much him pushing the move at the stage and not the IRFU?

b.gud

stephen_n wrote: »

In Henshaws case, is it not very much him pushing the move at the stage and not the IRFU?

To be honest no one really knows except for Robbie.

When Robbie to Leinster stories started the media narrative was that Robbie has to move for his career and to ensure he's playing top level rugby so he's better placed to play for Ireland. But since he has been performing at such a high level for Ireland while playing for Connacht, who have themselves been playing potentially the best rugby of the provinces*, the media narrative had changed in the past few months. It now seems to be more reported that he personally wants to make the switch, even though he hasn't said as much anywhere. Robbie has only commented on the matter when he's been asked questions by reporters, usually quite leading ones, about going to Leinster. His usual reply is something along the lines of he wouldn't rule it out and he'll assess his options.

I'm not trying to say that he doesn't want to, or won't go to Leinster because frankly I don't know what he'll do. I'm just saying that relying on the way it's been reported for knowing what he wants, which is all most of us have to go on, gives a very skewed version of what is actually happening.

*After the past couple of weekends there's an argument to say that this might be Ulster now, thankfully we only have to wait a few days for a deciding match

former total

At this stage, there are only two possible outcomes:
1) Henshaw goes to Leinster because HE wants to.
2) Henshaw doesn't go to Leinster.

There is no third possibility.

b.gud

former total wrote: »

At this stage, there are only two possible outcomes:
1) Henshaw goes to Leinster because HE wants to.
2) Henshaw doesn't go to Leinster.

There is no third possibility.

That sounds pretty much about right

swiwi_

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd be more gutted about Te'o had he gone to a competitive team. Seeing him chase dollars makes me a little less bothered about him leaving.

I'd say he's gutted you're not more gutted he's going.

Strikes me as a wee case of rugby snobbery there venjur.

Unless you know him personally (maybe you do...) then you're drawing a long bow.

Just maybe the Worcester coach has ambitions of moving up the league table a bit, liked what he saw of Teo and sold him his vision of the club.

aimee1

swiwi_ wrote: »

I'd say he's gutted you're not more gutted he's going.

Strikes me as a wee case of rugby snobbery there venjur.

Unless you know him personally (maybe you do...) then you're drawing a long bow.

Just maybe the Worcester coach has ambitions of moving up the league table a bit, liked what he saw of Teo and sold him his vision of the club.

And if they dont move up the table the € 600k per annum will cushion the blow

swiwi_

swiwi_ wrote: »

I'd say he's gutted you're not more gutted he's going.

Strikes me as a wee case of rugby snobbery there venjur.

Unless you know him personally (maybe you do...) then you're drawing a long bow.

Just maybe the Worcester coach has ambitions of moving up the league table a bit, liked what he saw of Teo and sold him his vision of the club.

Yeah no. I can believe in local lads buying into the vision, but Te'o is chasing the cash and to think otherwise is deluded. I'm glad he is getting a good pay out, he has been great for us and the experience has left him in a situation where he can demand a much higher salary from a currently average club. Fair fecks to him.

I'm just amazed that as a decent Islander he didn't get pinched by NZ in his teens!

molloyjh

jacothelad wrote: »

Well there is the language barrier......:D:D...and the currency situation.:D

The Leinster Academy is chock-a-block with great young prospects in the backs.

The what now!? :pac:

I'm not sure Leinster are as well stocked in the backs as you might think. At least not in backs that will make the grade in the next couple of years.....

molloyjh

swiwi_ wrote: »

I'd say he's gutted you're not more gutted he's going.

Strikes me as a wee case of rugby snobbery there venjur.

Unless you know him personally (maybe you do...) then you're drawing a long bow.

Just maybe the Worcester coach has ambitions of moving up the league table a bit, liked what he saw of Teo and sold him his vision of the club.

I'm one part delighted he's getting the recognition and another part delighted he isn't leaving because of serious title ambitions. I hope he goes well, but he won't be doing any better than he would be at Leinster in the next year or two. So if anyone is missing out it is him. If we get Robbie then it'll be a decent trade off at the end of the day. And it'll give Ringrose a good run at the jersey at the same time.

Te'o has been very good for us and I don't want to undersell the guy, but we also have to look at the longer term prospects. Good luck to him, I hope he's happy there. And I'll be sure to thank him when he leaves. But onwards and upwards etc.

Yeah_Right

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm just amazed that as a decent Islander he didn't get pinched by NZ in his teens!

Nice racism. He is a born and bred kiwi.

flouncer

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah no. I can believe in local lads buying into the vision, but Te'o is chasing the cash and to think otherwise is deluded. I'm glad he is getting a good pay out, he has been great for us and the experience has left him in a situation where he can demand a much higher salary from a currently average club. Fair fecks to him.

I'm just amazed that as a decent Islander he didn't get pinched by NZ in his teens!

so why dont all our irish lads do likewise. strangely the french and english clubs are very respectful of irfu conditions and will not entice unless player is wanting to move abroad. that is how it works in case you didnt know!

swiwi_

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm just amazed that as a decent Islander he didn't get pinched by NZ in his teens!

I'd be more gutted about Te'o had he gone to a competitive team. Seeing him chase dollars made me a little less bothered about him leaving.

(Actually, not really following rugby à treize, I'd never heard of him before he came to Leinster. And England might yet be competitive again.)

swiwi_

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm one part delighted he's getting the recognition and another part delighted he isn't leaving because of serious title ambitions. I hope he goes well, but he won't be doing any better than he would be at Leinster in the next year or two. So if anyone is missing out it is him. If we get Robbie then it'll be a decent trade off at the end of the day. And it'll give Ringrose a good run at the jersey at the same time.

Te'o has been very good for us and I don't want to undersell the guy, but we also have to look at the longer term prospects. Good luck to him, I hope he's happy there. And I'll be sure to thank him when he leaves. But onwards and upwards etc.

I figure the chance to play for England (since he's already eligible) might have featured in his decison, rather than clocking off a couple more years and having a run at a green jersey.

I don't think Teo is that good yet, Henshaw is better, and Ringrose looks like he has potential.

scott1974

Make of this what you will but Nucifora is definitely planting a few seeds for thought.

The future of provincial rugby looks up for change.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/irfu-not-for-turning-on-recruiting-foreign-players-1.2475634

sydthebeat

Looks like we're looking at years in the doldrums in Europe in order to get a wide base for an international player pool to choose from.

Unless we can do a Barcelona, and bring through a lot of top class academy players, our provinces will struggle badly year on year as French and English teams recruit as required.

Would Irish provincial fans be happy to be just challenging in they pro12?

former total

sydthebeat wrote: »

Looks like we're looking at years in the doldrums in Europe in order to get a wide base for an international player pool to choose from.

Unless we can do a Barcelona, and bring through a lot of top class academy players, our provinces will struggle badly year on year as French and English teams recruit as required.

Would Irish provincial fans be happy to be just challenging in they pro12?

No, they absolutely will not.

This is very, very bad news for rugby in Ireland as a whole.