Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

CMOTDibbler

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

We(all provinces are short of players) but there is no need to double the size of the academies as the player depth isn't there for the academies to increase by such.
The provinces pick 8-10 a year and hope some may go on to be regular pros and play a lot in pro12 and then some go on to be internationals etc. Increasing the size of the academies isn't required as it would have been done if the coaching systems believed they would have to do it

You can't say that the provinces need players and at the same time that the academies are big enough. It's a clear contradiction. We could argue usefully about the actual size, but they clearly need to be bigger. You also keep saying that we don't have the player depth without any reference to factual evidence of this. New Zealand supports 19 professional squads with 40% more registered players than us.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Because the coaches would say it. The standards are not there. There is plenty more than those you mention who have came straight from AIL and not been in an academy and went into a professional contract but that doesn't mean the academies need to be bigger. That players come through to a pro contract from the AIL and not having been in an academy is good and shows the strengths of the system we have and that we are getting as much out of it as we can. We need to fix the levels below the academy and help the clubs(youths) and schools and have it that no kid must have to(or feel they must have to) move school, and in many areas that means a fee paying school, to increase their chances of getting a pro contract

How on earth does it show the strength of the system when it fails developing players: By your own admission! They were missed by the academies. The system failed them. How many others are out there that will never get their chance?

Any player that is dropped from the system and forges a career somewhere else is a failure of the system. That there are plenty more is just a further indictment of that system. For every one that is missed and goes abroad there could be half a dozen more that don't get a break and disappear.

You're right to say that kids in clubs need better chances, but the system is self-satisfied by feeding off the schools and doesn't need to go further afield. Double the academy sizes and suddenly there is a need to trawl further and develop more.

awec

Hagz wrote: »

Fergus McFadden has been cited for trampling on Nathan White's face. Having seen it I expect he'll receive a ban.

What's the ban length possibilities for that?

Unlikely he'll get away with it, no excuse really as no real reason to be swinging his foot like that.

sheep?

awec wrote: »

Unlikely he'll get away with it, no excuse really as no real reason to be swinging his foot like that.

You can see him look at White's head before he does it. The frustration is understandable, but no excuse. Reckless.

former total

Definitely a couple of weeks for that. Reckless.

The Lost Sheep

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

You can't say that the provinces need players and at the same time that the academies are big enough. It's a clear contradiction. We could argue usefully about the actual size, but they clearly need to be bigger. You also keep saying that we don't have the player depth without any reference to factual evidence of this. New Zealand supports 19 professional squads with 40% more registered players than us.

I can. New Zealand doesn't support 19 professional squads.

The academies don't need to be bigger and only will be bigger when they are required to be bigger but that isn't now.
Ive been critical of the development system in Ireland since I joined this site about 5 and a half years ago but I don't want bigger academies unless we improve our base and lower levels first or else we wont improve enough. The academies clearly don't need to be bigger. The development/academy staff/IRFU development officers don't see a need for bigger increases in academy size
What factual evidence do you want to show we don't have the depth for bigger academies.

How on earth does it show the strength of the system when it fails developing players: By your own admission! They were missed by the academies. The system failed them. How many others are out there that will never get their chance?

Any player that is dropped from the system and forges a career somewhere else is a failure of the system. That there are plenty more is just a further indictment of that system. For every one that is missed and goes abroad
there could be half a dozen more that don't get a break and disappear.

It shows you don't have to make it into an academy at 18 to 'make it'. We don't need bigger academies as there isn't enough players for the academies to be so much bigger. The system didn't fail these players. That they weren't picked at 18/19/20 doesn't mean the system failed them. Any one who is dropped but makes a career elsewhere isn't a failure of the system.
Could this move to a new thread mods as it isn't relevant to Leinster thread like this thread perhaps?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81952902

hype101

Just thinking about possible signings.. Richard Kahui is out of contract in Japan at the end of the season.. Was thinking he would be a perfect post-Teo addition.. Big, fast and covers centre and wing.. Would probably be a bit cheaper than some of the more high profile SH players.. Anyone see him play recently?

CMOTDibbler

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Could this move to a new thread mods as it isn't relevant to Leinster thread like this thread perhaps?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81952902

I've replied to you there

CatFromHue

hype101 wrote: »

Just thinking about possible signings.. Richard Kahui is out of contract in Japan at the end of the season.. Was thinking he would be a perfect post-Teo addition.. Big, fast and covers centre and wing.. Would probably be a bit cheaper than some of the more high profile SH players.. Anyone see him play recently?

Isn't his injury record terrible?

hype101

CatFromHue wrote: »

Isn't his injury record terrible?

He's had a shoulder recon for sure but outside of that I'm not too sure.

CatFromHue

I'd be wary to be honest as I thought he'd a lot of injury problems and has been in Japan for 2 seasons now, I think.

We've seen with Muliania that you have to be wary of guys in that bracket.

aimee1

Herald article says luke mcgrath has heel infection but should be available this weekend

Healy has had minor knee surgery and ross should be back for the 6n

The Rape of Lucretia

aimee1 wrote: »

ross should be back for the 6n

As in, back to see Leinster through the 6N, I suspect.

aimee1

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

As in, back to see Leinster through the 6N, I suspect.

He didnt play for leinster in ERCC last January but started all 5 games for ireland. I hope moore/furlong get decent gametime tho

Interested Observer

aimee1 wrote: »

Herald article says luke mcgrath has heel infection but should be available this weekend

Healy has had minor knee surgery and ross should be back for the 6n

Whichever Leinster rep was doing press last week said McGrath got an infected blister on his heel that had to be lanced. Hopefully nothing serious.

Interested Observer

Interested Observer wrote: »

Whichever Leinster rep was doing press last week said McGrath got an infected blister on his heel that had to be lanced. Hopefully nothing serious.

Sounds minor but I know someone who lost months for something very similar being treated poorly. 2-3 runs of anti biotics and ended up in Hospital for a week.

I'm sure McGrath is grand tho.

former total

McGrath was at the Ireland get-together on Monday so he can't be too bad.

scott1974

former total wrote: »

McGrath was at the Ireland get-together on Monday so he can't be too bad.

Says he's available for the weekend

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/cian-healy-ruled-out-for-three-weeks-with-knee-injury-1.2486860

LostArt

3 weeks for McFadden

molloyjh

LostArt wrote: »

3 weeks for McFadden

Back in time for when the internationals head off. Grand.

CatFromHue

LostArt wrote: »

3 weeks for McFadden

Five weeks reduced to 3 is about right.

former total

3 weeks; fair enough.

Any clips of the incident?

Synode

Deleted User wrote: »

Any clips of the incident?

https://twitter.com/tomsauce2000/status/683691201346826240

awec

IMO he's very lucky to only get 3 weeks for that.

Synode

Synode wrote: »

https://twitter.com/tomsauce2000/status/683691201346826240

zero complaints with a ban (was it the classic 5 weeks but 3 for saying please and thanks?)

It annoys me when I see this kind of stuff because the players know that they're not going to get away with it.

Maybe you will at the time, but the TMO is there, and the citing process too.

vienne86

Synode wrote: »

https://twitter.com/tomsauce2000/status/683691201346826240

That's pretty awful - lucky enough to get away with three weeks IMO.

irishbucsfan

3 weeks is soft but it's surprising to me that they've not gone even softer IMO, given the history of the process.

Quintis

awec wrote: »

IMO he's very lucky to only get 3 weeks for that.

Especially when pleading guilty

stephen_n

Given that it's on the head he's very lucky to only get three, you'd expect better discipline from someone with McFaddens experience.

CatFromHue

From someone who's such a good goal kicker I'd expect better accuracy from him