Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

Hagz

Hard work will always trump talent. Ringrose's work ethic was evident in the standard of his goal kicking at school's level. Van der Flier clearly has a great attitude also.

Hagz

Hagz wrote: »

Hard work will always trump talent. Ringrose's work ethic was evident in the standard of his goal kicking at school's level. Van der Flier clearly has a great attitude also.

Don't agree with that. Natural talent is the limiting factor, all these guys work hard.

Buer

jacothelad wrote: »

Eauverpriced, Eauverrated.

Have a thanks, you magnificent b*stard.

Hagz

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't agree with that. Natural talent is the limiting factor, all these guys work hard.

Agree to disagree. I don't think what separates the best from the second best is talent, I think its hours spent.

Buer

A lot of these guys spend hours and hours on the field, in the gym and watching footage. If they don't have it, they don't have it. There's certainly guys who have the wrong attitude who will never hit the top level relative to guys who make more of less obvious talent but I would think that's less common than just falling behind guys who have more ability.

To use examples, Fergus McFadden is said to be a ferocious competitor with a great work ethic. He's never going to be a top test level player nor gain many (if any) more than his 15 test starts. Brian O'Driscoll was, by his own admission, a bad trainer who hated gym sessions and the attention to detail in the earlier years of his career whilst letting his hair down a fair bit but was the best centre in the world at the time. Similarly, D'Arcy was completely unreliable off the field in his early years and, while it bit him in the ass for Ireland, he was still a guaranteed starter for Leinster throughout.

Neil3030

Guys, it's both.

No natural talent + good work ethic = James Milner

Natural talent + no work ethic = Dimitar Berbatov

Natural talent + good work ethic = Lionel Messi

No natural talent + no work ethic = me

Zzippy

Neil3030 wrote: »

Guys, it's both.

No natural talent + good work ethic = James Milner

Natural talent + no work ethic = Dimitar Berbatov

Natural talent + good work ethic + Human Growth Hormone = Lionel Messi

No natural talent + no work ethic = me and the rest of us

FYP

Selliott190

JVDF hasn't been without his injury problems.. concussion to be specific.

Gilsenan turned out to be a bit underpowered and had a problem staying healthy even still I'd say Ulster and Munster would find him quite handy to have.

Coghlan was mismanaged by leinster IMO. He isn't a 7 like Foley tried to make him into. He is a 6/8 but not really an in tight player. Even still I think Ulster would gladly have him.

Leavy is still 21 and will be until the end of the season. E has managed to stay healthy this season so hopefully he gets a chance at 6 or 7 like JVDF did last year as a 21 year old. Personally I'd like to see him at 6.. could bypass Ryan and Murphy there quite quickly given his intelligence and physicality.

El_Duderino 09

hogandrew wrote:

The amount of young lads who have had really good breakthroughs this season is super too. Marsh at the start of the season was very good, McGrath playing well, Tracy looks to be almost pushing for a bench spot then obviously vdf and ringrose with the likes of Byrne, kelleher, McCarthy etc getting game time too and almost everyone slotting in so seamlessly. There's obviously very good direction being given to players

Remember this comment if they lose the next 2 games. Opinion will turn on Leo again as it would be 0 wins from 6 games in Europe.

I agree that it's improving for leinster. League form is very good and the Toulon matches weren't terrible performances. Maybe winning the league is a fair expectation for Leinster, unless they want to get a sugar daddy to buy in a load of foreigners.

Maybe it would be better to keep their identity and focus on the league than lose their identity chasing Europe.

AdamD

Failing to see how James Milner has no natural talent, guy scored in the PL when he was 16 years old..

Neil3030

AdamD wrote: »

Failing to see how James Milner has no natural talent, guy scored in the PL when he was 16 years old..

Just a sec, I'll be right with you...

Sangre

shuffol wrote: »

Still early to say but VDF just seems like somebody who's got something about him attitude wise and who works his arse off, it's possibly harder to spot how that will pan out at underage level, Ringrose likewise if your judging him on his schools career. I don't think there was much expectation of him when he was first lining out for Ireland u-20s.

Injuries obviously do play a part as well however.

What really stands out for me is his decision making. I don't think i've ever seen him take a wrong option which is very impressive for such a young player. He also seems to pop-up exactly when needed, which is a combination of brain and work ethic.

Contrast that to Conan who will be a huge talent but still needs work on his reading of the game.

Synode

AdamD wrote: »

Failing to see how James Milner has no natural talent, guy scored in the PL when he was 16 years old..

I'd have to agree. Let's put it down to Neil's bitterness at being a Villa fan

Milner-Skudder?

The Rape of Lucretia

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Remember this comment if they lose the next 2 games. Opinion will turn on Leo again as it would be 0 wins from 6 games in Europe.

No it wouldnt. I would have no problem if the lost the last two Euro games. It is all about the Pro 12 now, so Leo can use them as sophisticated training sessions. The result doesnt matter. He has freedom to rest players, give experience to some of the up and comers that mightnt have been involved if they were real games, experiment with positions or tactics.
If some of these are achieved, then two losses could be counted a fine and clever success.

molloyjh

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

No it wouldnt. I would have no problem if the lost the last two Euro games. It is all about the Pro 12 now, so Leo can use them as sophisticated training sessions. The result doesnt matter. He has freedom to rest players, give experience to some of the up and comers that mightnt have been involved if they were real games, experiment with positions or tactics.
If some of these are achieved, then two losses could be counted a fine and clever success.

By you and some others. General opinion wouldn't be so kind.

Plus as I said before there is no such thing as a nothing home game. We need to win this one. To hell with the game in Coventry next week, we can throw that. But we need to beat Bath this weekend.

EDIT: Plus why would we both resting the internationals at this stage. What would we be resting them for? Surely we should be resting the guys who are going to be playing all of the games during the 6 Nations so they don't get injured and are fresh?

The Rape of Lucretia

molloyjh wrote: »

EDIT: Plus why would we both resting the internationals at this stage. What would we be resting them for? Surely we should be resting the guys who are going to be playing all of the games during the 6 Nations so they don't get injured and are fresh?

Not necessarily saying we should. Up to Leo to decide what is in the greater interest of the team's season. He has a totally free hand that is not based on an all out effort to win these games.

Buer

It's vital to win this one in terms of support and momentum. Losing 3 home games in the ECC would be awful, regardless of who we're playing. A loss in this game followed up by another against Wasps, would be hugely damaging to any progress made in recent weeks. Confidence would take a real hit both on the field and in the stands.

former total

Yeah, winning this game is vital.

Another loss would have no impact on the outcome of the season but psychologically could be massive.

salmocab

In the grand scheme not sure losing the next 2 games would make much difference but still feel we should at least get a win this Saturday to put a bit of gloss on it.

padser

former total wrote: »

Yeah, winning this game is vital.

Another loss would have no impact on the outcome of the season but psychologically could be massive.

Maybe I'm just overly pragmatic but I really don't care about the results in the next two games. We lost the first 4 games in Europe, how we get on in the final two dead rubbers doesn't really bother me.

I'd like to use the games to introduce some of our younger players to European rugby, and to do that Id like to see 80% of a full strength side selected (no development in playing all the young guns).

We need to prioritise the Pro12. It's a very poor competition this year and even in the state we are in we are contenders, so we need to go and try win it.

We should be aiming to win every game. Being winners is something we need to become part of our culture and as much as I hope we use the next two games to build some additional experience, I would expect that we do this secondarily to winning.

CatFromHue

I don't think Bath deserved to win in The Rec so that's why I want to win this weekend.

That's right, this time.....it's personal!

sydthebeat

Well paddy power have us -4 so they dont think we will be throwing it

thomond2006

I think Leinster have a duty to play the strongest possible side for the home game, similarly with Munster at home to Stade. The away game, not so much.

JPNelsforearm

thomond2006 wrote: »

I think Leinster have a duty to play the strongest possible side for the home game, similarly with Munster at home to Stade. The away game, not so much.

Why? Its a dead rubber, focus on tactics and implementing the game and integrating young guys into the squad

molloyjh

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Why? Its a dead rubber, focus on tactics and implementing the game and integrating young guys into the squad

I think people have already stated quite clearly why.

1. Maintain momentum & confidence.
2. Prevent 3 home losses in Europe and prevent another home loss this season.
3. Foster a winning culture.
4. Give the guys who will be playing in the 6 Nations game time.
5. Give the guys who won't be playing in the 6 Nations a rest ahead of a series of weeks where we'll need them fit and firing.

Young guys are already being integrated into the squad as it stands. And if we're going to throw a game it should be the one next week away from home, not the one this week in front of a home crowd that have spent good money to come and support the side.

former total

If nothing else, the fans have paid premium prices for this game. You expect to see the newbies against Zebre on a Six Nations weekend, and you expect to see the front-liners for a home HC game against top-level opposition.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Don't think Leinster should "throw" these remaining European games but if I was in charge I'd be thinking about who is going to be missing during the 6 Nations and who is going to replace them. Have they had enough game time, have they played enough with the people they'll be alongside when the bulk of the squad is missing?
Also, who is the most important to have available for the remaining Pro 12 games before the 6 Nations? The likes of Sexton. No need to risk him in these fixtures, while Madigan has hardly played this season and is most likely going to be starting during the 6 Nations.

I wouldn't field an entire 15 of "young" players but there's a balance to be had that should still make the games competitive.

JPNelsforearm

Ok, fair enough points. Though I never suggested we throw the game lol. Just afford it the importance it warrants