Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

thomond2006

It should be pointed out that Leinster can only select from the following players: http://www.epcrugby.com/matchcentre/leinster_rugby.php?section=3

awec

molloyjh wrote: »

I think people have already stated quite clearly why.

1. Maintain momentum & confidence.
2. Prevent 3 home losses in Europe and prevent another home loss this season.
3. Foster a winning culture.
4. Give the guys who will be playing in the 6 Nations game time.
5. Give the guys who won't be playing in the 6 Nations a rest ahead of a series of weeks where we'll need them fit and firing.

Young guys are already being integrated into the squad as it stands. And if we're going to throw a game it should be the one next week away from home, not the one this week in front of a home crowd that have spent good money to come and support the side.

6. Leinster wins could help Ulster.

El_Duderino 09

The Rape of Lucretia wrote:

No it wouldnt. I would have no problem if the lost the last two Euro games. It is all about the Pro 12 now, so Leo can use them as sophisticated training sessions. The result doesnt matter. He has freedom to rest players, give experience to some of the up and comers that mightnt have been involved if they were real games, experiment with positions or tactics. If some of these are achieved, then two losses could be counted a fine and clever success.

I agree with you but I'm pretty sure the mood would be very different if they lose both European games. The media are busy with Anthony Foley so Leo is relatively safe but I think he will be under pressure if they don't get a W.

Buer

awec wrote: »

6. Leinster wins could help Ulster.

I'd like to revise my opinion on Leinster's level of effort in this fixture.

El_Duderino 09

former total wrote:

Another loss would have no impact on the outcome of the season but psychologically could be massive.

That's journalist talk for 'I need to make this game appear significant, even though everybody knows it isn't'. It's fair enough for them to say it because they have to say something to hype it up but there's no need for us to join in.

awec

Buer wrote: »

I'd like to revise my opinion on Leinster's level of effort in this fixture.

Wasps and Stade both could prove problematic for us.

Wasps have more points than us right now. They are top of the pool but are likely to drop to 2nd this weekend.

Bath are not a huge problem, think it would be better for Ulster if you could beat Wasps away next week.

If Stade beat Munster we are in a bit of bother.

errlloyd

I remember how much I hated Racing in 2013 for sending their under 13 Bs to play Munster in Thomond. It really undermines squads in a battle for seeding when you take the piss with squads in the late matches. For the integrity of the competition I'd like Leinster to set a precedent by not giving up.

That said, they're more than welcome to play like Exeter did in that 2013 final group game. They threw the ball around and put it up to Leinster, liberated, but not castrated if you like.

crisco10

I think it is an opportunity to give some guys a run, but they need to have experienced heads around them for it to be worthwhile.

Had a crack at two teams if Leo wanted to rotate heavily between the two games.

What about this for a XV for bath:

1. Bent
2. Strauss
3. Moore
4. Devin
5. Denton
6. Rhys Ruddock
7. Daniel Leavy
8. Jordi Murphy

9. Luke McGrath
10. Sexton
11. McFadden
12. Teo
13. Ringrose
14. Isa
15. Zane Kirchner

Then this XV against Wasps:

1. McGrath
2. Cronin
3. Furlong
4. Molony
5. Denton
6. Ryan
7. Van der Flier
8. Heaslip/SOB

9. Reddan
10. Madigan
11. Ringrose
12. Reid
13. Teo
14. Isa/Dave Kearney
15. Zane Kirchner/Rob Kearney

Tox56

errlloyd wrote: »

I remember how much I hated Racing in 2013 for sending their under 13 Bs to play Munster in Thomond. It really undermines squads in a battle for seeding when you take the piss with squads in the late matches. For the integrity of the competition I'd like Leinster to set a precedent by not giving up.

That said, they're more than welcome to play like Exeter did in that 2013 final group game. They threw the ball around and put it up to Leinster, liberated, but not castrated if you like.

But "not giving up" doesnt mean we have to play all of our best players given the strength of our squad

I dont see the problem with putting out a team against Wasps with the likes of McGrath instead of Reddan, VdF instead of SOB, Ringrose instead of Te'o, maybe Reid instead of Fitzgerald, Molony instead of McCarthy, Furlong instead of Moore, Cronin instead of Strauss, Kirchner instead of Kearney etc. We can still rest a lot of the "first choice" players, put out what would be considered a B team compared to the best team we can possibly put out, but you would still expect them to be very competitive and we definitely arent throwing the game or anything

Edit: Crisco beats me to it

errlloyd

None of that Ringrose on the wing stuff. Get out of it.

We have 3 centres, they should continue on a rotation of 2 on, 1 off, till after the 6 nations. With Teo moving outside Reid but inside Ringrose.

Hagz

It's a dead rubber. Mix the old with the new. These arguments about playing for the fans, saving face, maintaining momentum and confidence; they're all just hot air. Fans want to see young talent. Fans are more excited when they see future prospects on the team sheet. I'll tell you what would really knock confidence, sending out the strongest XV and then losing. Throw out an experimental side. If they lose, so what. It won't effect confidence and it won't halt momentum in the Pro 12.

Sexton shouldn't be anywhere near this fixture. Luke McGrath, Van der Flier, and Ringrose should be starting this fixture. Molony, Dooley, McCarthy and Marsh should be on the bench.

salmocab

Hagz wrote: »

Sexton shouldn't be anywhere near this fixture. Luke McGrath, Van der Flier, and Ringrose should be starting this fixture. Molony, Dooley, McCarthy and Marsh should be on the bench.

Are the last few registered for Europe?

Hagz

salmocab wrote: »

Are the last few registered for Europe?

Yes

aimee1

article in the herald quotes guy easterby about several injuries

Healy and Ross wont be back "until in or around the start of the 6n"

Triggs and Conan are 4-6 weeks away from a return but Mick Kearney should be back a few weeks before then

Buer

Hagz wrote: »

It's a dead rubber. Mix the old with the new. These arguments about playing for the fans, saving face, maintaining momentum and confidence; they're all just hot air. Fans want to see young talent. Fans are more excited when they see future prospects on the team sheet. I'll tell you what would really knock confidence, sending out the strongest XV and then losing. Throw out an experimental side. If they lose, so what. It won't effect confidence and it won't halt momentum in the Pro 12.

Sexton shouldn't be anywhere near this fixture. Luke McGrath, Van der Flier, and Ringrose should be starting this fixture. Molony, Dooley, McCarthy and Marsh should be on the bench.

It's not hot air at all. The team would take a good bit of crap in the media and from the public if they lost all six pool games which is very likely if they lose this weekend. They're human and they don't go unaware of that. Criticism impacts on players.

They've built up a head of steam in recent times and the last thing they want to do is lose that by putting out an experimental team. It's not a coincidence that the performances have become more assured as gradually over the past month. Winning feeds into the mentality of the squad and breeds confidence. It really shows in guys like Nacewa, for example, who is far slicker in the last couple of games than he was even 4 weeks ago.

By all means, start guys like VDF who has already gone out against Toulon or even Ringrose in for an injured Fitzgerald or McGrath who has shown up very well of late. But it shouldn't go further than that nor would I expect it to. The likes of Sexton will be absolutely itching to play in this game against Ford after hitting his stride last week. The last thing he needs to be told is to rest up for a couple of weeks.

Fans might get excited by seeing young players on the team sheet but there's also a reason they're fans and not picking the team. Fans get more excited by winning than anything.

irishbucsfan

I really don't think Sexton is itching to get into this game after his comments about it after the match last week. I can't remember his exact words but he said it was meaningless, I'd imagine that'd a reflection of a lot of the guys opinions.

The Rape of Lucretia

Buer wrote: »

It's not hot air at all. The team would take a good bit of crap in the media and from the public if they lost all six pool games which is very likely if they lose this weekend.

Leo has the following goals, in order of importance, for the remainder of this season :

1 qualify as a top seed for next years EC draw
2 win the Pro 12
3 develop the younger talent budding for inclusion in the starting team
4 develop and improve the team systems and skills
5 identify and recruit the necessary external players
6 improve the variety and style of play to engage fans and show a promising outlook for future years and banish the MOC hangover
7 win as many games as possible to foster a winning feeling and fan support

He must base his selections and tactics for all game to maximise the achievement of these goals.

Winning the two remaining EC games does not in itself contribute greatly to them.

Buer

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Leo has the following goals, in order of importance, for the remainder of this season :

In fairness, we've no idea about his goals let alone the order of them. With that said, the 5th one you list is largely the remit of Michael Dawson and not Leo Cullen.

Hagz

The difference in the criticism received from losing all games and losing all but one should not be the motivating factor in deciding whether to put out a full strength team. It shouldn't even enter the equation. I mean really, how much will one win halt the criticism? It wont. That is hot air in my opinion.

Now the argument about continuity is in someway relevant as far as selection goes, not winning. But look at where we are in the league. It's a risk Leinster can afford to take, if you take it upon yourself to even call it a risk.

When the word experiment is used for this game, it's still set within the boundaries of the ERC registered squad. Nobody is talking about starting Billy Dardis out there, but it's an opportunity to start Ringrose, VdF and some of the other registered young talent; so take it.

Specifically looking at Sexton, the guy is going down like a sack of spuds every game these days. The more rest he can get the happier I am. I'd very much like to see him out of this fixture.

Buer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I really don't think Sexton is itching to get into this game after his comments about it after the match last week. I can't remember his exact words but he said it was meaningless, I'd imagine that'd a reflection of a lot of the guys opinions.

I honestly can only remember the part where he said they're on a roll now and have built up momentum in recent weeks and ignoring the stick he had been getting in Ireland.

sydthebeat

What's this I'm hearing of Marty Moore to wasps?
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/marty-moore-set-to-leave-leinster-for-english-side-wasps-1.2494361

Teferi

Balls.

irishbucsfan

Crap

The Rape of Lucretia

Nether regions.

sheep?

sh1te in a bucket

clsmooth

I really don't get that..

Tox56

What the hell? Jesus

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

What's this I'm hearing of Marty Moore to wasps?
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/marty-moore-set-to-leave-leinster-for-english-side-wasps-1.2494361

Well he's either going or he is fishing for a better deal. Until Leinster make an announcement there isn't much point thinking about it.

If he does go though however, I'd prefer to see him fall behind Furlong in the pecking order (or whichever Tighthead moves into the 23).

TheGoldenAges

Weird, maybe he's doing a 2 year stint and waiting for Ross to retire so he has a clear shot at the starting jersey against Furlong? If I was to guess he was looking for an IRFU contract and didn't get it so got paid similarly to what he deemed his value.

Zzippy

That's not good if we can't hold on to young international players coming into their prime. What would be the problem with offering a 24yo a 3 year contract?