Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

crisco10

Could this just be posturing from Moore to try and get a central contract? Refuse the Leinster contract, make it clear you have another option. over to you IRFU..

LostArt

Hopefully!

ionadnapokot

Timothy Bryce wrote: »

I'd have both feet in the .ak camp on Moore. I believe he's regressed a huge amount since his recent spell on the sideline. He's also about 2-3 stone overweight and is fairly sluggish around the park.

For me Furlong is a better scrummager, a solid ball carrier (7 carries vs Ospreys) and generally quicker around the park. I'd take that over Moore's main plus point; his prowess in the jackal.

Couple of seasons at Wasps could see them make Moore properly fit too.

Big burden on Furlong now. Would like to see him get more game time. Starting At 3 this wkend.
Moore is young enough to develop his all round game...haven't seen enough from him over the last few seasons. Would have prefered to see him at Leinster but hopefully he can kick on at wasps under dai young

Timothy Bryce

Sangre wrote: »

Thats a moot point though. We need at least two quality THs and Ross is 36 and fading.

Agree with the overall sentiment there, but Ross probably offers more in the short term to Cullen than Moore. Could be a bit short sighted given the timing of Ross' injury.

As someone said above, the Wasps move is hopefully just agent talk. Potentially a dangerous game for Moore as I'd have him behind both Furlong & Ross at Leinster.

There's apparently a decent Munster TH (forget his name) in the Ireland U20's who may threaten the senior setup in the next season(s)

sydthebeat

i really hope this is posturing for a better deal.

Leinster arent in a position to let Moore go. The way european rugby is going youre either a 'buying' team or a 'nurturing' team. Its obvious none of the irish provinces have the financial prowess to be able to complete with the sugar daddy french and english teams, so we need to become a 'barcalona' of rugby rather than a 'real madrid'. We currently have Ross, Moore, Furlong and RBF in the senior squad, with Heffernan in the academy (im not including Bent in this discussion). Ross realistically should be used very sparingly next season and probably wont be with the irish squad. RBF is still a bit of an unknown with only 2 (competent) appearances off the bench this season. So with Furlong with ireland that leaves us quite short for decent tightheads.
Bent, Ross, RBF and Heffernan.
Unless we see RBF emerge as a realistic option, and at 29 time is running short on him, we would need to recruit as i dont see a combination of Ross / Furlong / RBF and Bent as good enough to sustain the season, form and injury allowing.

blackdog1

sydthebeat wrote: »

i really hope this is posturing for a better deal.

Leinster arent in a position to let Moore go. The way european rugby is going youre either a 'buying' team or a 'nurturing' team. Its obvious none of the irish provinces have the financial prowess to be able to complete with the sugar daddy french and english teams, so we need to become a 'barcalona' of rugby rather than a 'real madrid'. We currently have Ross, Moore, Furlong and RBF in the senior squad, with Heffernan in the academy (im not including Bent in this discussion). Ross realistically should be used very sparingly next season and probably wont be with the irish squad. RBF is still a bit of an unknown with only 2 (competent) appearances off the bench this season. So with Furlong with ireland that leaves us quite short for decent tightheads.
Bent, Ross, RBF and Heffernan.
Unless we see RBF emerge as a realistic option, and at 29 time is running short on him, we would need to recruit as i dont see a combination of Ross / Furlong / RBF and Bent as good enough to sustain the season, form and injury allowing.

Moore is being overtaken by Furlong and unlike Ross that won't be a 1 or 2 year problem. Add into this his injury record...he's going for money. He has to get ahead of Cooper Wooley and Citadini in wasps not so easy.

Yeah_Right

I think Moore leaving Leinster is a good thing. It is pointless having 3 or 4 internationals for the one position at the same club. The issue is him going overseas. He should be heading to one of the other provinces. If he's looking for sterling then Ulster is the obvious choice.

scott1974

If this goes ahead then you'd have to question what Nucifora's role is. I though his whole philosophy was to move players around the provinces if they needed game time/exposure etc.
I can understand Madigan going but not this one (if it happens)..

ClanofLams

scott1974 wrote: »

If this goes ahead then you'd have to question what Nucifora's role is. I though his whole philosophy was to move players around the provinces if they needed game time/exposure etc.
I can understand Madigan going but not this one (if it happens)..

It's all speculation at this stage but if Moore is of the viewpoint that it's a short career and he needs to maximise his earnings, I'm not sure what people expect Nucifora to do.

padser

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'd take three years of Moore over one year of Ross any day.
.

I don't quite get the comments about Ross on this thread (not just this one). He is 36 years of age, it's not his fault that Moore can't perform at a level to get in front of him. Building for the future is important, but you don't throw away your best TH prop until he become NOT your best TH prop.

That said, losing Moore is clearly a distaster as you need at least two quality TH's to compete at the top as you wouldn't get more than 60 mins from one these days. I can't believe keeping Ross has anything to do with Moores decision, if he (of all people) doesn't back himself to get in front of Ross over the next 12-18 months he has a serious confidence issue.

I assume it's money, and the irfu will have to increase their offer to him. That comes at a cost but the reality is that we now compete in a market where players are worth more. We need to figure out how to compete likely by bringing more money into the game here

scott1974

ClanofLams wrote: »

It's all speculation at this stage but if Moore is of the viewpoint that it's a short career and he needs to maximise his earnings, I'm not sure what people expect Nucifora to do.

Eh.. Mike Ross is 36, so if he looks after himself he's a long career ahead... plus he's moving to probably a more attritional league without the benefit of player welfare (not sure if he would be first choice in Wasps anyway).
Also he's probably ruled himself out of the Irish scene also.

molloyjh

former total wrote: »

Might also be relevant to note that Wasps can't offer Moore the sort of sweetheart deal that Sexton got at Racing; he'd be released for the official international windows and nothing more.

Yeah but the serious lack of THs in Ireland may mean that even though he is abroad he may still very easily be one of Irelands top 2 THs for the foreseeable future. Furlong coming into the national side should so pretty much hand in hand with Ross's departure. So we still need a second TH in our 23. Who else is there really?

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I think Moore leaving Leinster is a good thing. It is pointless having 3 or 4 internationals for the one position at the same club. The issue is him going overseas. He should be heading to one of the other provinces. If he's looking for sterling then Ulster is the obvious choice.

It is pointless have 3+ internationals in the same position at a province, but with Ross on his way out we really should be looking at having 2. Ross and Moore now, Moore and Furlong in a years time. Given the nature of the front row there is nothing at all wrong with having 2 there.

scott1974 wrote: »

If this goes ahead then you'd have to question what Nucifora's role is. I though his whole philosophy was to move players around the provinces if they needed game time/exposure etc.
I can understand Madigan going but not this one (if it happens)..

They aren't possessions. If Marty Moore wants to move to Wasps he can do so freely. Nucifora and the IRFU can only offer him so much, they can't put a gun to his head.

Podge_irl

padser wrote: »

I don't quite get the comments about Ross on this thread (not just this one). He is 36 years of age, it's not his fault that Moore can't perform at a level to get in front of him. Building for the future is important, but you don't throw away your best TH prop until he become NOT your best TH prop.

I'm not suggesting throwing him away. I don't think he is that much better and has likely, at most, one more season in him though. It's incredibly unlikely this was actually the choice available, but if it was a choice between Ross or Moore I think the latter is the obvious choice.

And Moore was ahead of Ross at one stage last year.

Bazzo

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I think Moore leaving Leinster is a good thing. It is pointless having 3 or 4 internationals for the one position at the same club. The issue is him going overseas. He should be heading to one of the other provinces. If he's looking for sterling then Ulster is the obvious choice.

Ulster are still funded by the IRFU so the strong sterling doesn't affect their buying power.

awec

Bazzo wrote: »

Ulster are still funded by the IRFU so the strong sterling doesn't affect their buying power.

It does when it comes to the cash that comes from places other than the IRFU.

Bazzo

awec wrote: »

It does when it comes to the cash that comes from places other than the IRFU.

Realistically how much of the player budget does that make up though?

Has Rory given ye an upper limit on the blank cheques?

awec

Bazzo wrote: »

Realistically how much of the player budget does that make up though?

Has Rory given ye an upper limit on the blank cheques?

We've sold the stadium name etc.

Larbre34

If Moore leaves, its a disaster. Players in certain positions, we can do without. But Ross is effectively finished and any team with ambitions to do well at the top table in both competitions needs two quality tight heads, not least a team that contributes to the Ireland squad more than any other. For that matter, its bad for Ireland too.

jacothelad

Utah_Saint wrote: »

would have happily took Moore up in Ulster. Would have freed up a NIQ spot too.

Unfortunately Ulster would only have been able to match anything that leinster offerred. We can't outbid each other.....allegedly.

Bazzo wrote: »

Ulster are still funded by the IRFU so the strong sterling doesn't affect their buying power.

awec wrote: »

We've sold the stadium name etc.

Ulster raise a lot through sponsorship. Kingspan alone chipped in with £5,000,000. Almost 7,000,000 Euro. Then there are gate receipts from 18 or 19 home games on top of S.T. money. Still, the management can't stop recruiting useless players. The dosh wasted on loserrs at Ulster must be eye watering. Moore could have transformed our scrum in tandem with Herbst.

Shefwedfan

Can Leinster still drop back into Challange Cup like a few seasons ago when they won it? or is that gone?

Journeyman_1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Can Leinster still drop back into Challange Cup like a few seasons ago when they won it? or is that gone?

Best 3 of the teams that miss out on Qualification go to Challenge I think. Its unlikely we can get enough points to be included in that considering 2 of those will be runners up in their groups.

The Lost Sheep

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Can Leinster still drop back into Challange Cup like a few seasons ago when they won it? or is that gone?

No. That's gone.

padser

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

No. That's gone.

Also....we are zero from four....I don't think we would still be in with a shot of making even that if it still existed.

The Lost Sheep

awec wrote: »

Technically still possible but would require two bonus point wins for Leinster and other teams in other pools to totally collapse.

Leinster can technically qualify but question was if they don't do they go into challenge cup. That isn't possible.

awec

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Leinster can technically qualify but question was if they don't do they go into challenge cup. That isn't possible.

Damn you and your ninja quotes.

Yeah_Right

molloyjh wrote: »

It is pointless have 3+ internationals in the same position at a province, but with Ross on his way out we really should be looking at having 2. Ross and Moore now, Moore and Furlong in a years time. Given the nature of the front row there is nothing at all wrong with having 2 there.

Have to disagree with that. If Leinster have the top two THs in Ireland then when the autumn internationals and 6 Nations come round, they're down to their third and fourth choice THs.

It's better for Leinster and Ireland if the top four THs in the country are playing for the four provinces.

Zzippy

molloyjh wrote: »

It is pointless have 3+ internationals in the same position at a province, but with Ross on his way out we really should be looking at having 2. Ross and Moore now, Moore and Furlong in a years time. Given the nature of the front row there is nothing at all wrong with having 2 there.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Have to disagree with that. If Leinster have the top two THs in Ireland then when the autumn internationals and 6 Nations come round, they're down to their third and fourth choice THs.

It's better for Leinster and Ireland if the top four THs in the country are playing for the four provinces.

100% agree with Yeah_Right. Also for the fact that having 2 international players in the same position at one province means one or the other is not getting as much experience/gametime, and therefore developing, as they would if they were first choice at another team. It might be great for Leinster to have such depth, but it's not ideal for Ireland.

ClanofLams

scott1974 wrote: »

Eh.. Mike Ross is 36, so if he looks after himself he's a long career ahead... plus he's moving to probably a more attritional league without the benefit of player welfare (not sure if he would be first choice in Wasps anyway).
Also he's probably ruled himself out of the Irish scene also.

I wasn't saying he would be correct to move, hope he stays in Ireland obviously.

Merely pointing out that Nucifora/IRFU are powerless to stop him moving if that's what he decides.

pickarooney

awec wrote: »

It does when it comes to the cash that comes from places other than the IRFU.

McIlroy mostly earns dollars though.

errlloyd

pickarooney wrote: »

McIlroy mostly earns dollars though.

USD is also a strong currency!

Actually scrap this whole idea of a strong Sterling or Dollar, it's a lie. What we're faced with is the problem of a piss poor Euro.

Although - when I say "its a problem" in reality it is the best possible thing to have ever happened to Ireland. We're a net exporter, not a net importer, so the crap currency has helped boost our surplus. We also depend on tourism, once again our good old friend valueless money has increased the amount British and American (our two biggest tourist groups) spend here.

There are two main downsides* the awful piece of crap toilet paper we call money.

1. Away games to the other home nations are more expensive
2. Marty Moore is going to the Aviva premiership

*There are wider and more extreme economic downsides, but **** it, we like rugby.