Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

.ak

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Man, that this discussion can even take place is such a nightmare. Incredible, that qualify or not, we have sunk so low that it can be seriously considered a possibility. Where did it all go wrong ? You would think we have a crummy squad of players who arent up to it.
Maybe there would be some justice in not qualifying - our performances have been pretty consistently rotten for two years (despite escaping with results a fair few times) and we deserve to be in the lower tier with the handicap we insist on inflicting upon ourselves.

Ha, you'd swear we're the ABs or something.

Don't forget we don't have pedigree, all our success has been very recent relatively speaking.

So we finish 5th out of 12 and maybe 4th out of 30 odd teams. You'd swear it's our god given right for this not to happen, and how dare the other teams play better than us and how dare we suffer from recent limitations and a dip in form. :pac:

Where'd it all go wrong is something I'd attribute to Toulouse.

For us it's more a case of as you were.

Hopefully we can get back to those heady heights but it's not going to happen in one game.

Tox56

.ak wrote: »

Ha, you'd swear we're the ABs or something.

Don't forget we don't have pedigree, all our success has been very recent relatively speaking.

So we finish 5th out of 12 and maybe 4th out of 30 odd teams. You'd swear it's our god given right for this not to happen, and how dare the other teams play better than us and how dare we suffer from recent limitations and a dip in form. :pac:

Where'd it all go wrong is something I'd attribute to Toulouse.

For us it's more a case of as you were.

Hopefully we can get back to those heady heights but it's not going to happen in one game.

I obviously don't agree with the other guy but considering we have an incredibly good underage structure with access to way more players than the other provinces, and that is reflected in our contribution to the Irish team, we will be one of the best in the league and Europe for the forseeable future. I'd certainly put money on us finishing 5th this year being an outlier compared to the next 10 years (just as it was compared to the last 10) not 'as you were'

Neil3030

.ak wrote: »

Ha, you'd swear we're the ABs or something.

Don't forget we don't have pedigree, all our success has been very recent relatively speaking.

So we finish 5th out of 12 and maybe 4th out of 30 odd teams. You'd swear it's our god given right for this not to happen, and how dare the other teams play better than us and how dare we suffer from recent limitations and a dip in form. :pac:

Where'd it all go wrong is something I'd attribute to Toulouse.

For us it's more a case of as you were.

Hopefully we can get back to those heady heights but it's not going to happen in one game.

I don't know, this is bordering on masochism for me.

You talk about not having a 'pedigree', but in my mind, this is not relevant. Regardless of when or how we rose to prominence in Europe, our resources are simply not being put to good use:

We have how many season ticket holders? 12000+? How many other clubs in Europe have this much guaranteed income each year, never mind the Pro12.

We have an academy with exclusive access to an enormous player pool, how many other clubs are in such a charmed position for developing players?

We have how many internationals in our ranks?

I reckon Leinster could have been formed last Summer, and if with all of the above, we were stuttering as we are now, it would be considered short of expectations.

CatFromHue

We don't have a crummy squad but for one game we did have Madigan at 15 and two guys up from the AIL on the wings.

Bent, Conan, Fanning, Furlong, Denton, and Dom Ryan all would be considered fringe squad players before this season yet all have played a good chunk of the Pro12 games.

Then there's the young guys like VdFlier, the Byrne boys, L. McGrath, M. McGrath, and Marshall who wouldn't have expected to be anywhere near the first team all were in a good few match day squads this season.

Injuries to Healy, SOB, Jennings, McLaughlin, D'arcy, and DK wouldn't have been expected either.

irishbucsfan

Neil3030 wrote: »

We have how many season ticket holders? 12000+? How many other clubs in Europe have this much guaranteed income each year, never mind the Pro12.

Just on this point. Every single Premiership and Top 14 club, when you add in the domestic TV deals.

Larbre34

Well this is cheery.

Fireball07

CatFromHue wrote: »

We don't have a crummy squad but for one game we did have Madigan at 15 and two guys up from the AIL on the wings.

Bent, Conan, Fanning, Furlong, Denton, and Dom Ryan all would be considered fringe squad players before this season yet all have played a good chunk of the Pro12 games.

Then there's the young guys like VdFlier, the Byrne boys, L. McGrath, M. McGrath, and Marshall who wouldn't have expected to be anywhere near the first team all were in a good few match day squads this season.

Injuries to Healy, SOB, Jennings, McLaughlin, D'arcy, and DK wouldn't have been expected either.

A lot of that is very true, but Luke McGrath surely belongs in the former group rather than the latter. Reddan & Boss aren't getting any younger, plenty of people would have thought McGrath would have been getting a good bit of gametime this season, especially with Reddan involved with Ireland still.

And Marshall's been around a good while at this stage, has he really been in that many match-day squads though?

CatFromHue

Fireball07 wrote: »

A lot of that is very true, but Luke McGrath surely belongs in the former group rather than the latter. Reddan & Boss aren't getting any younger, plenty of people would have thought McGrath would have been getting a good bit of gametime this season, especially with Reddan involved with Ireland still.

And Marshall's been around a good while at this stage, has he really been in that many match-day squads though?

Marshall has been in 7 Pro12 match day squads.

McGrath I suppose could be considered a fringe squad player but before this season he had only 1 start and 11 appearances from the bench so he's borderline really.

Fireball07

CatFromHue wrote: »

Marshall has been in 7 Pro12 match day squads.

McGrath I suppose could be considered a fringe squad player but before this season he had only 1 start and 11 appearances from the bench so he's borderline really.

I just don't think it should be a surprise that your 3rd-choice SH is in a few squads, there will be injuries and stuff at times. Munster had Neil Cronin, who wasn't even signed on as a Munster player playing in the HC, which was also a disaster.

Having someone like Van Den Flier involved with so many back row injuries, or Bent having to start the majority of HC games or Fanning playing every single game at the start of the season (considering Leinster have a lot of top backs) are things I'd point at.

CatFromHue

Fireball07 wrote: »

I just don't think it should be a surprise that your 3rd-choice SH is in a few squads, there will be injuries and stuff at times. Munster had Neil Cronin, who wasn't even signed on as a Munster player playing in the HC, which was also a disaster.

Having someone like Van Den Flier involved with so many back row injuries, or Bent having to start the majority of HC games or Fanning playing every single game at the start of the season (considering Leinster have a lot of top backs) are things I'd point at.

Crikey I listed 12 players and may have got one in the wrong category.

Tough crowd

Fireball07

CatFromHue wrote: »

Crikey I listed 12 players and may have got one in the wrong category.

Tough crowd

I'm sorry


I actually don't know what to make of Leinster's season. They haven't been great for the most part, even taking into account the injuries and that must be very frustrating as a fan. But they are in the HC semi-final and that is still clearly the ultimate target (as the team selection for this weekend would seem to indicate). I don't think Leinster will beat Toulon but... if they somehow manage it, it would be hugely impressive. Having Sexton back will solve lots of problems, although SH is an issue.

molloyjh

Deleted User wrote: »

I think people are thinking three weeks ahead with worst case scenario's in mind.

We have a not great team going to RP and Ulster are ahead of us in the table so at this point two loses isn't out of the question and would put us under pressure if 6th 7th or 8th gain ground.

We will not be under pressure. Regardless of other results we will get a TBP win against Treviso at home. That will put us on 57 points. Even if we get absolutely nothing from our other games (not at all likely) that leaves us 13 points clear of Connacht and Scarlets with 3 games to go for them. They would need to win all 3 games and get a TBP in one of them to go ahead of us. Connacht play Glasgow, Ospreys and Zebre while Scarlets play Dragons, Cardiff and Treviso. There is no way in hell both of those will get 13-14 points from those games. We are not in any danger of missing out on Europe. It may be mathematically possible, but it is so unlikely as to be irrelevant.

.ak wrote: »

Ha, you'd swear we're the ABs or something.

Don't forget we don't have pedigree, all our success has been very recent relatively speaking.

So we finish 5th out of 12 and maybe 4th out of 30 odd teams. You'd swear it's our god given right for this not to happen, and how dare the other teams play better than us and how dare we suffer from recent limitations and a dip in form. :pac:

Where'd it all go wrong is something I'd attribute to Toulouse.

For us it's more a case of as you were.

Hopefully we can get back to those heady heights but it's not going to happen in one game.

I'm sorry ak but this post is just all sorts of wrong. For starters we have plenty of pedigree in the league. Ourselves and Ospreys are joint first in terms of the number of times we've won the competition, with us winning it in it's maiden year. We've also come runners-up more times than anyone else (twice as much as our nearest rivals in that stat). Since it started in the current format of a single league rather than groups we have missed out on a top 4 finish just the once. In it's maiden year. We've actually been in the top 3 for every year since. That's a full decade of being in the top 3 of the league. That's plenty of pedigree if you ask me. And to say this is "a case of how you were" is utterly and completely factually inaccurate. As we were when exactly?

stephen_n

Dragons, Cardiff and Treviso is a possibility of 13 points if you ask me, far from guaranteed but achievable for the Scarlets.

Big Nelly

Match on TV today?

Heroditas

S4C according to the Pro12 page

Larbre34

^in other words, no use to anyone with UPC or Saorview.

Pretty rubbish TV deal that doesnt ensure domestic coverage of important run-in matches.

vienne86

Big Nelly wrote: »

Match on TV today?

S4C I think. They have English commentary on the red button.

OldRio

Just checked. Highlights at 1815hrs on TG4.

vienne86

OldRio wrote: »

Just checked. Highlights at 1815hrs on TG4.

Highlights....hmmm.....I hope there are some highlights in this match.

total former

vienne86 wrote: »

Highlights....hmmm.....I hope there are some highlights in this match.

ffs.

Just bail out now.

thomond2006

vienne86 wrote: »

Highlights....hmmm.....I hope there are some highlights in this match.

You giving next Sunday a miss so?

vienne86

thomond2006 wrote: »

You giving next Sunday a miss so?

Given the team we'll be able to put out next weekend, I'm hopeful of a good performance.

molloyjh

stephen_n wrote: »

Dragons, Cardiff and Treviso is a possibility of 13 points if you ask me, far from guaranteed but achievable for the Scarlets.

Yes but that 13 points assumes we don't even get any LBPs against Dragons, Ulster or Edinburgh. We're safe enough from that perspective.

thomond2006

vienne86 wrote: »

Given the team we'll be able to put out next weekend, I'm hopeful of a good performance.

It's the Dragons. Munster lost to Edinburgh at home and we routed them yesterday. Leinster's team has enough about it to win today.

Don't lose faith. Otherwise we'll have an old boards favourite saying you're on the bandwagen.

vienne86

thomond2006 wrote: »

It's the Dragons. Munster lost to Edinburgh at home and we routed them yesterday. Leinster's team has enough about it to win today.

Don't lose faith. Otherwise we'll have an old boards favourite saying you're on the bandwagen.

I'll be glued to it today - I am away from home, and am going to a fair bit of trouble to watch in on a laptop (totally legally, I might add!).

It's an awful wet and windy morning in Dublin - just hoping it will be better in Newport this afternoon.

Big Nelly

vienne86 wrote: »

S4C I think. They have English commentary on the red button.

One of the many reasons why I threw that crap UPC out

Big Nelly

Was the team announced? I have seen nothing on Facebook or anything?

vienne86

Big Nelly wrote: »

Was the team announced? I have seen nothing on Facebook or anything?

Friday announcement:

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/13468.php#.VSpNfvnF-l8

Pudsy33

Do s4c have an online stream for those in Wales?

armchaircoach

As far as I'm aware a sky box can be tuned into s4c so any pub should be able to show this.

Not much joy for anyone on upc as they can't be tuned.

Also checked there, it's also not one of the channels on mobdro