Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

SaveOurLyric

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm a member of the People's front of Matt O'Connor. That Matt O'Connor peoples front are a shower of SPLITTERS

Are they for or against MOC ?

As a member of the Leinster Liberation Army trying to oust the MOC junta I need to know whether we are allies or not.

.ak

Quint2010 wrote: »

You are seriously suggesting we should "promote" Matt O'Connor? Sheesh! Best laugh I have had in ages!:)

I wouldn't see it as a promotion, but rather a better use of resources and skills.

Anyway I was just speculating. But if you want to add anything to the discussion let us know! :pac:

sydthebeat

mr. pleasant wrote: »

"You guys have no idea how great a coach MOC is and in general have little to no understanding of rugby. the problems are everywhere but the coach."
"

that was said by no one anywhere on this forum

SaveOurLyric

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

As a member of the Leinster Liberation Army

Ah yes... that's you over there:

mr. pleasant

sydthebeat wrote: »

that was said by no one anywhere on this forum

oh no? must just be me so. i'm a delicate flower.

.ak

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

You missed the main one !

0. MOC hasnt a rashers.

The other 7 are just minor contributers or excuses .

I love the fact that people actually think that. :pac:

Quint2010

The_Captain wrote: »

MOC advocates 'heads-up' rugby, which is a nice way of saying he doesn't run set plays or tight drills.

The team aren't playing well together as a team. Players aren't going forward because they don't know where their team mates/support wil be, no one seems to know what someone else is going to do.

Look at the ball going back and forth switching outside, inside, back again or a whim, players getting in each others way, players in the wrong place to receive passes etc.

At this point MOC needs to take the team by the scruff of the neck and say "this is what you're doing. this is the play to make in this position." and drill the boys until they all know what they're doing.

It's not a lack of skills, it's a lack of teamwork and creativity, and it's the coaches job to get his team working together

Agreed. This "heads-up" rugby nonsense is not even a strategy. It is for sevens rugby but not for the 15 man game. Its what you should be playing when the game is broken up or where a particular move breaks down or there is broken play and the other teams defensive system has failed. Using "heads-up" rugby to describe your rugby ethos is ridiculous.

thomond2006

I reckon Leinster need a brains trust style coaching ticket from the Top Quatorze.

Gerry Thornley is available to coach

Quint2010

.ak wrote: »

I wouldn't see it as a promotion, but rather a better use of resources and skills.

Anyway I was just speculating. But if you want to add anything to the discussion let us know! :pac:

From being Head coach to being made Director of Rugby is a promotion. No question. It would send all the wrong signals. MOC has done nothing to warrant such a position.

LostArt

.ak wrote: »

I love the fact that people actually think that. :pac:

He obviously does have a clue/game plan, I suppose the question should be why can't the players implement it for more than 30 mins each game?

irishbucsfan

Quint2010 wrote: »

From being Head coach to being made Director of Rugby is a promotion. No question. It would send all the wrong signals. MOC has done nothing to warrant such a position.

There's no way you can say that the promotion of one position to another position that doesn't exist is a promotion, so this makes no sense. A position called "Director of Rugby" could be created that is directly a peer of Head Coach.

Zzippy

Buer wrote: »

My personal preference would be for us to approach someone like Johann Ackermann. He has done a really good job with the Lions in the Currie Cup and has European experience. We could then move Dempsey into a backs/attacking role alongside him. But, again, it's probably unrealistic as it would mean sacking Cullen too.

Well, the whole thing is unrealistic actually because MOC is with us next season barring a big surprise.

Why is that unrealistic. It's a business, business decisions need to be taken. An underperforming coach should not be kept on. Cullen is too close to the players having played with them, he clearly isn't getting the best out of the forwards.

Deleted User wrote: »

What is that? Can you give me some idea of what you think his style of play is?

Um, the inside pass. Again. And again. Until it works. UNTIL IT WORKS!

irishbucsfan

Zzippy wrote: »

Why is that unrealistic. It's a business, business decisions need to be taken. An underperforming coach should not be kept on. Cullen is too close to the players having played with them, he clearly isn't getting the best out of the forwards.

But Cullen was always removed from the squad in a position of quasi-management, he was always a leader to them, I really don't think that is the problem. If that is a problem then why was Simon Easterby such a success as a coach in Llanelli, or indeed Axel or indeed Dan McFarland etc etc

I think it's more likely that Cullen is just inexperienced and is learning how to manage his time and the rest of those peripheral skills that are needed to become a good coach. I think he has everything needed to become a fantastic forwards coach and if it takes a little time for him to get there I'm perfectly happy to give it to him. The last thing I want to do is let him go and see him find his feet and turn into a top class coach somewhere else next season.

CatFromHue

I wouldn't say we have problems in the forwards but that we've problems in attack.

Lineout, scrum, maul etc are usually pretty good.

Buer

Zzippy wrote: »

Why is that unrealistic. It's a business, business decisions need to be taken. An underperforming coach should not be kept on. Cullen is too close to the players having played with them, he clearly isn't getting the best out of the forwards.

I'm not saying it shouldn't but it simply won't. They aren't going to sack the forwards coach and one of their longest serving, most successful servants after 1 season. Just isn't realistic at all, to my mind. The most I can see happening is a change of role, slightly.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

MOC is a coaches' coach. I would say he's the very opposite of a "DOR" style coach and there have been issues in the past when he's been asked to step away from direct coaching positions, or others encroaching on "his turf". But of course there isn't really such thing as a DOR style coach because it varies massively from club to club what the DOR is expected to do. Some do very little direct coaching, some are on the field in shorts and boots every day. I wouldn't want him as a DOR, I'd have him as head coach under another DOR.

I have a few people I'd like to fill either role though. A realistically achievable setup I'd love to see in action would be Colin McEntee as DOR (if we could get him back from the overlords) with a Mr. Ronan O'Gara as head coach, that'd be fun.

I just assumed he and Sexton were a double act. Where there is one etc.

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Are they for or against MOC ?

As a member of the Leinster Liberation Army trying to oust the MOC junta I need to know whether we are allies or not.

Oh FFS, someone is going to have to do this it may as well be me....

What has MOC ever done for us?

Well there was the Pro12 title

Ok apart from the Pro12 title, what has MOC ever done for us?

He brought Ben Te'o in.

Ok apart from the Pro12 title and Ben Te'o, what has MOC ever done for us?

European Champions Cup Semi-Final?

Apart from the Pro12 title, Ben Te'o and the Champions Cup Semi-Final, what has MOC ever done for us?

molloyjh

CatFromHue wrote: »

I wouldn't say we have problems in the forwards but that we've problems in attack.

Lineout, scrum, maul etc are usually pretty good.

Our maul this season has been pretty awful for the most part no?

total former

CatFromHue wrote: »

I wouldn't say we have problems in the forwards but that we've problems in attack.

Lineout, scrum, maul etc are usually pretty good.

We've been appalling this season in terms of defending rucks, i.e. actually getting bodies to the breakdown to secure the ball. It's improved in recent times though so I'm optimistic the upward curve will continue.

LostArt

molloyjh wrote: »

Our maul this season has been pretty awful for the most part no?

Awful is being nice about it!

Buer

CatFromHue wrote: »

I wouldn't say we have problems in the forwards but that we've problems in attack.

Lineout, scrum, maul etc are usually pretty good.

Wouldn't really agree. Our maul has been alright overall in attack. Sometimes it has been good, other times really indisciplined and sloppy with people breaking off (Dominic Ryan, I'm looking at you) and static.

It has been poor in defence. We've been driven back many times in this area.

Our line out hasn't been any better than acceptable. The defensive line out has been non-existent for the most part. We've gone weeks at a time without stealing a throw. Which makes our poor maul defence all the worse when we've 8 men on the ground.

Our biggest failing though has been at the rucks. We've been sloppy and inaccurate. We're hugely reliant on guys like Heaslip and McGrath there. Take them out and we look pretty lost. Ben Marshall summed us up yesterday with how naive he was in conceding a penalty when we were finally getting a bit of possession and still in front. He torpedoed himself off his feet. The movement of the Dragons outhalf accentuated it but Marshall was still launching himself off his feet regardless.

Dravokivich

.ak wrote: »

Do we? I hate this idea of throwing a player in the deep end. We gave him plenty of backing this season and he was for the most part quite poor in terms of delivery and service.

What we need is a decent scrumhalf to bridge the gap, McGrath's form will come but throwing him into games where we lose because he's passing to people's heads or bootlaces won't do him any favours.

The same can be said for both Gopperth and Boss. Consistent distribution is an issue for the team overall. Not just LMcGrath.

I understand Wayne Barnes has been drafted in to put the final nails in Leinster's coffin

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

I just assumed he and Sexton were a double act. Where there is one etc.





Oh FFS, someone is going to have to do this it may as well be me....

What has MOC ever done for us?

Well there was the Pro12 title

Ok apart from the Pro12 title, what has MOC ever done for us?

He brought Ben Te'o in.

Ok apart from the Pro12 title and Ben Te'o, what has MOC ever done for us?

European Champions Cup Semi-Final?

Apart from the Pro12 title, Ben Te'o and the Champions Cup Semi-Final, what has MOC ever done for us?

I think you're missing the big one there....

He signed this fella:

.ak

Dravokivich wrote: »

The same can be said for both Gopperth and Boss. Consistent distribution is an issue for the team overall. Not just LMcGrath.

I don't think the same could be said, no.

Gopperth or Boss might have the odd dodgy pass, but nothing like what we've seen from McGrath.

Quint2010

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There's no way you can say that the promotion of one position to another position that doesn't exist is a promotion, so this makes no sense. A position called "Director of Rugby" could be created that is directly a peer of Head Coach.

Are you honestly saying that if MOC was given the title of Director of Leinster rugby that it would not be a promotion given he is currently head coach? If he was given that title would you have a Head Coach working alongside him rather than under him? Why would you have a DOR and a Head Coach if they are both on the same level? The idea is that one reports to the other eg Schmidt reports to Nucifora (who also has lots of other responsibilities and is on the committee whilst Schmidt is not). Creating a DOR and then giving him no power doesnt make any sense. If you are given a title of Director is means you have overall responsibility for an area and report directly to the CEO/MD and are on the board or committee.

Quint2010

Deleted User wrote: »

I understand Wayne Barnes has been drafted in to put the final nails in Leinster's coffin

So the one area Leinster might get the upper hand ie the scrum has just been completely nullified (See Wales v Ireland):rolleyes:

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

I don't think the same could be said, no.

Gopperth or Boss might have the odd dodgy pass, but nothing like what we've seen from McGrath.

I don't think McGraths passing has been all that much worse than our half-backs generally this season. Gopperth in particular (and I'm not a Gopperth-hater) has had some real howlers in that regard. Balls going to peoples feet, well over their heads, in behind them or too far in front of them. It just doesn't get the same level of attention as McGraths. There is a certain element of confirmation bias in the argument this season IMO.

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't think McGraths passing has been all that much worse than our half-backs generally this season. Gopperth in particular (and I'm not a Gopperth-hater) has had some real howlers in that regard. Balls going to peoples feet, well over their heads, in behind them or too far in front of them. It just doesn't get the same level of attention as McGraths. There is a certain element of confirmation bias in the argument this season IMO.

That's because he's a 10 and wouldn't pass as much as a 9. He also has the option of running the ball, which he does a lot. McGrath would be more noticeable because he'll pass it more often and has a higher p/k/r percentage.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

That's because he's a 10 and wouldn't pass as much as a 9. He also has the option of running the ball, which he does a lot. McGrath would be more noticeable because he'll pass it more often and has a higher p/k/r percentage.

Given our ruck protection McGrath would often be under more pressure than Gopperth as well. Game time may not improve the mechanics of the pass, but his ability to deal with the opposition pressure should improve with experience.

Also, I'm not sure if you're backing up my point there or not???