Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

.ak

shuffol wrote: »

Maybe I'm blind to it or we've different standards but I just can't see what makes Madigan outrageously talented. That's a praise I'd reserve for somebody like Quade Cooper.

Ah I think if you go back a few years and see him playing behind the all destroying leinster pack and he had less to worry about you can see his talent shine; he has that natural flare that few irish players possess, ha handling and stepping is undeniably good... There's very few irish players that are capable of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aGjpgfgxJc

I think most people are in agreement on that but its ability to make good decisions and implementing those skills that's his problem.

Some intresting comments from Schmidt on MOCs statements over the last week or so:

"It comes back to how you are managing the players and how well is that working,"

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/the-system-isnt-broken-joe-schmidt-hits-back-at-leinster-in-irfu-war-of-words-31167131.html

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Except it wasn't Matt making the claims originally, was it? It was Guy Easterby, who was also Leinster's team manager when Schmidt was head coach and knows EXACTLY how things went then.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/easterby-calls-on-irfu-to-review-player-management-rules-31146857.html

The Independent is just clickbait nonsense looking to create controversy.

Guy Easterby made those comments last week, prior to the Toulon game..

Matt O'Connor was talking about it prior to the Glasgow game 4 weeks ago.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/guinness-pro12/matt-oconnor-annoyed-as-irfu-refuse-to-release-irish-stars-31098538.html

Given the dynamic that we have in the Pro12 now with meritocracy and the windows tighter and all the dynamics that go with it, the management system needs to be restructured.

EDIT: And if you think Easterby is going out and making comments in the press that haven't been agreed by everyone else in the set-up then I'm baffled. This is a professional outfit who will have a single message that will have been agreed upon long before they set foot into those press briefings.

jacothelad

.ak wrote: »

Ah I think if you go back a few years and see him playing behind the all destroying leinster pack and he had less to worry about you can see his talent shine; he has that natural flare that few irish players possess, ha handling and stepping is undeniably good... There's very few irish players that are capable of this:




I think most people are in agreement on that but its ability to make good decisions and implementing those skills that's his problem.

His talent must shine very brightly and be seen from a long distance......:D

bilston

bilston wrote: »

It's interesting that Jackson has finished the last couple of games for Ulster at 12. It's not something that is spoken about much but Jackson is able to play 12 as well, albeit he doesn't have the same experience there that Madigan does obviously. If Jackson can suddenly provide that option of covering 12 for Ireland then Madigan comes under a lot of pressure for the 22 shirt.

If Fitz or Earls are #23, Jackson is #22 ahead of Madigan every day of the week...

jacothelad

Guy on UAFC with 2 family stand tickets for tonight's game.

http://www.uafc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18022

molloyjh

Just for reference here's a more complete version of the Schmidt/Nucifora interview:

http://www.the42.ie/joe-schmidt-david-nucifora-player-management-irfu-2065855-Apr2015/?utm_source=twitter_self

stephen_n

irishbucsfan wrote: »

O'Connor said it as well briefly in a press conference after Easterby's interview, but he said very little. It was Easterby's interview that kicked everything off in the media. But it's more profitable to spin it as Schmidt disagreeing with MOC.

I would say Nucifora's comments or rather figures are vastly more important than Joe v MOC really.

total former

This whole thing is a serious mountain/molehill situation, when you read the actual quotes from Easterby and O'Connor they're mundane to the point of being boring.

People have got to stop reading the Indo.

total former

total former wrote: »

This whole thing is a serious mountain/molehill situation, when you read the actual quotes from Easterby and O'Connor they're mundane to the point of being boring.

People have got to stop reading the Indo.

Well reading the quotes from the Journal and whilst it's all being politely played out in the media, I'm sure they would rather it was being played out behind closed doors.

Either way Schmidt and Nucifora are clearly saying that the results this season are not because of player welfare and then Schmidt goes onto to compare to his final season and our league performance in difficult circumstances so whilst polite it's pretty direct.

I think the easiest way to summarise what Schmidt said is "MO'C Out". (this is a joke)

OldRio

molloyjh wrote: »

Just for reference here's a more complete version of the Schmidt/Nucifora interview:

http://www.the42.ie/joe-schmidt-david-nucifora-player-management-irfu-2065855-Apr2015/?utm_source=twitter_self

Very interesting. No doubt the 'usual suspects' will try and tie the evidence in knots in their normal manner.

vienne86

So, what's the weather forecast for Ravenhill this evening?

vienne86

vienne86 wrote: »

So, what's the weather forecast for Ravenhill this evening?

There is none unfortunately, all the meteorologists in Met Eireann are being rested under the meteorologists welfare scheme.

vienne86

vienne86 wrote: »

So, what's the weather forecast for Ravenhill this evening?

It'll be raining red cards as per usual.

Those ill-disciplined gurriers up north!

total former

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is none unfortunately, all the meteorologists in Met Eireann are being rested on the meteorologists welfare scheme.

More excuses from the usual suspects. When Joe was running met eireann it was never like that.

ThisRegard

molloyjh wrote: »

Just for reference here's a more complete version of the Schmidt/Nucifora interview:

http://www.the42.ie/joe-schmidt-david-nucifora-player-management-irfu-2065855-Apr2015/?utm_source=twitter_self

Read that this morning, couple of subtle, and not so subtle, digs at MOC and the comparison how Leinster done during the 6 Nations period in previous years compared to now.

total former wrote: »

This whole thing is a serious mountain/molehill situation, when you read the actual quotes from Easterby and O'Connor they're mundane to the point of being boring.

People have got to stop reading the Indo.

Read the 42 article by Murray Kinsella, it's pretty much all quotes so nothing really being exaggerated for the purpose of a story.

awec

Match thread is up.

total former

total former wrote: »

More excuses from the usual suspects. When Joe was running met eireann it was never like that.

When Schmidt ran the show the reporting was correct 84% of the time and even when it was wrong they showed good endeavour and did a lot of things well. The accuracy levels showed that they still had a couple of work on's and needed look at their intensity around the weather fronts.

total former

total former wrote: »

More excuses from the usual suspects. When Joe was running met eireann it was never like that.

I remember one time Met Eireann said it was to be dry.

Joe made it rain.

Sangre

I heard that its going to be renamed SchMedt Eireann in his honour.

molloyjh

total former wrote: »

This whole thing is a serious mountain/molehill situation, when you read the actual quotes from Easterby and O'Connor they're mundane to the point of being boring.

People have got to stop reading the Indo.

In fairness the Indo didn't call the press conference and the quotes and more appear in other news outlets. Hence my link to the 42 earlier.

In the last few weeks MOC (more so than Easterby) has called for the player welfare programme to be restructured. He claimed it was damaging Leinster and the league and even suggested that the conversations he was having on the players availability was less than two-way.

Last night Schmidt and Nucifora came out to say that there were "gross inaccuracies" in the statements that had been made and that the player welfare system wasn't in need of restructuring. They also said that the conversations being had between the IRFU and the coaches were generally two-way and constructive as well as pointing out that the player welfare hadn't been an issue in performance in seasons past, basically saying that it isn't the issue this season either.

In other words they came out and publicly rubbished almost everything MOC had said about the player welfare system in the last few weeks. And they did so outside of the international windows when they rarely call press conferences. So they obviously felt the need to publicly address what had been said.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

In fairness the Indo didn't call the press conference and the quotes and more appear in other news outlets. Hence my link to the 42 earlier.

In the last few weeks MOC (more so than Easterby) has called for the player welfare programme to be restructured. He claimed it was damaging Leinster and the league and even suggested that the conversations he was having on the players availability was less than two-way.

Last night Schmidt and Nucifora came out to say that there were "gross inaccuracies" in the statements that had been made and that the player welfare system wasn't in need of restructuring. They also said that the conversations being had between the IRFU and the coaches were generally two-way and constructive as well as pointing out that the player welfare hadn't been an issue in performance in seasons past, basically saying that it isn't the issue this season either.

In other words they came out and publicly rubbished almost everything MOC had said about the player welfare system in the last few weeks. And they did so outside of the international windows when they rarely call press conferences. So they obviously felt the need to publicly address what had been said.

I think you are reading this completely the wrong way and just pushing your own narrative.

Clearly they are actually agreeing with MO'C and if you read between the lines they are saying that he is a good coach and whilst Schmidt with the exact same problems managed to dominate the league, MOC is actually not in anyway the problem and nor is his management style and that actually the problem is Crab People.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

In other words they came out and publicly rubbished almost everything MOC had said

Haha, what's the point in having this discussion if people think this is even remotely close to what has happened?! :pac:

The 30% figure, for example, was Nucifora clarifying for the media's sake, not rubbishing MOC. MOC said players weren't available for 30% of the season, Nucifora said that figure is grossly inaccurate. It's grossly inaccurate if you try to use it out of context of course, (IE using it to try to say Leinster's players are only available for 30% of games, which is patently untrue but which is an inaccuracy Leinster are happy to propagate amongst the type of journalists who haven't the brain to question it)

Unfortunately the independent and balls.ie will continue to publish the content that they do so long as people eat it up as willingly as this.

sydthebeat

think its pointless comparing what schmidt could do with the player welfare system to what MOC had to do this year, given the seismic change to the meritocracy rewards in the final league positions which the two had/have to deal with

irishbucsfan

sydthebeat wrote: »

think its pointless comparing what schmidt could do with the player welfare system to what MOC had to do this year, given the seismic change to the meritocracy rewards in the final league positions which the two had/have to deal with

Which is pretty much exactly what Easterby said. I would guess Leinster wnated Easterby to say it so it didn't get turned around by people pointlessly for another stick to try to bash MOC with, and they massively underestimated the capacity of some people to do that.

dub_skav

Plus you have to remember that Schmidt's inherent Leinster bias means that MOC has to deal with more absentees than Schmidt did when Kidney was displaying his rampant Munster bias. :pac:

justrgbytalk

There was a lot of talk a while back about Leinster's need for a backup 9 and 10. With Quade signed to Toulon, hypothetically how would you feel about Leinster signing Freddie Michalak? Not sure how he stands contractually and I know money is an issue, but he would most certainly make for more entertaining rugby (which everyone seems to be calling for), bring European experience and fill a need! Thoughts?

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Haha, what's the point in having this discussion if people think this is even remotely close to what has happened?! :pac:

The 30% figure, for example, was Nucifora clarifying for the media's sake, not rubbishing MOC. MOC said players weren't available for 30% of the season, Nucifora said that figure is grossly inaccurate. It's grossly inaccurate if you try to use it out of context of course, (IE using it to try to say Leinster's players are only available for 30% of games, which is patently untrue but which is an inaccuracy Leinster are happy to propagate amongst the type of journalists who haven't the brain to question it)

Unfortunately the independent and balls.ie will continue to publish the content that they do so long as people eat it up as willingly as this.

You see this kind of post adds nothing to any sort of debate. It's full of sneering, self confident nonsense that happily ignores the points I made in favour of talking about other things.

1. I have based my comments on what I read in the 42, not the Indo or Balls. Both of which I have shown real distaste for lately.
2. I never mentioned the 30% figure in my post at all. I'm happy to assume that there was an element of picking it up and/or reporting on it wrong. Maybe my use of the term "grossly inaccurate" confused there.
3. The statements I did speak about were the need for a restructure, the impact on Leinster and the one-way nature of the communication.

If at some point you'd like to address what I actually said then feel free.

CatFromHue

justrgbytalk wrote: »

There was a lot of talk a while back about Leinster's need for a backup 9 and 10. With Quade signed to Toulon, hypothetically how would you feel about Leinster signing Freddie Michalak? Not sure how he stands contractually and I know money is an issue, but he would most certainly make for more entertaining rugby (which everyone seems to be calling for), bring European experience and fill a need! Thoughts?

I could see him stepping off the plane in Dublin into that cutting breeze that blows there and then turning straight around and getting back on the plane!

It's interesting you mention him as I'm struggling to think of many, well any, French players to have played for Leinster.

awec

Hm, megabucks in the south of France or Dublin. Tough choice.