Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

sydthebeat

if there was any french 9/10 that we could get for a few years it would be a fit dimitri yachvili, but hes retiring at the end of the season

thomond2006

sydthebeat wrote: »

if there was any french 9/10 that we could get for a few years it would be a fit dimitri yachvili, but hes retiring at the end of the season

He retired last season.

sydthebeat

thomond2006 wrote: »

He retired last season.

did he? my bad

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

He retired last season.

I'd still take him.

thomond2006

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd still take him.

Apparently the cluster**** of Biarritz last season and a bad falling out with Blanco made Yachvili lose his will to play on. So it wasn't so much a physical/age issue. Sad way for a brilliant player's career to end really.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

You see this kind of post adds nothing to any sort of debate. It's full of sneering, self confident nonsense that happily ignores the points I made in favour of talking about other things.

1. I have based my comments on what I read in the 42, not the Indo or Balls. Both of which I have shown real distaste for lately.
2. I never mentioned the 30% figure in my post at all. I'm happy to assume that there was an element of picking it up and/or reporting on it wrong. Maybe my use of the term "grossly inaccurate" confused there.
3. The statements I did speak about were the need for a restructure, the impact on Leinster and the one-way nature of the communication.

If at some point you'd like to address what I actually said then feel free.

The only thing I'm referring to your post is the idea that anyone has "publicly rubbished" anyone else. Which is a laughable claim

CatFromHue

Easterby:

"Nineteen of our squad have played full international rugby for Ireland (this season)," Easterby said at an event to promote the Pro12 final in Belfast on May 30. "Of those 19 players, they have on average played just over six Pro12 games this season and that clearly is an issue.
"It can't not have an effect on you. You find things out as the season unfolds with the new structure. If that means it leads to a discussion at the end of the season about how it can be improved, how changes can be made that aren't detrimental to anyone, but work well for everyone, then discussions will take place.
"You're not going to get it right the first year. As long as people are prepared to have discussions, I think we can make it a working format."

MOC:

We're the most affected with so many blokes in the national set-up post Six Nations,

So, did he give Fitzgerald, who only started one Six Nations game, the week off?
"No, that's the decision that the Irish management made in relation to the player management system," confirmed O'Connor.
Asked had he suggested a loosening of the arrangement, the Australian also answered in the negative.
"There was a conversation, how two-way it was is debatable," he confirmed. "It's not an issue for today, it's about trusting the blokes that we've got.

Given the dynamic that we have in the Pro12 now with meritocracy and the windows tighter and all the dynamics that go with it, the management system needs to be restructured.
"It hurts the league. There's a lot of games in the Pro12 that are impacted on by the lack of availability from Test players.
"If we're talking about competing with the bigger leagues in Europe, in relation to the Top 14 and the Premiership, and the ability to maximise the commercial potential of those, we need to look at how often the very best marquee players are playing Pro12 rugby for Leinster.
"The financial implications are the biggest issue and that is where we need to get a little bit of clarity. There is a player welfare issue and then there is what is the league going to be worth.
"What the Premiership and the Top 14 have shown is that there is a marquee product there if you have your best players available more often.
"We need to go with the Pro12 and there is no doubt that there are benefits in managing players and making sure that they are in a very good physical and mental space to play at a higher intensity as often as they can.
"That needs to be discussed in a lot more detail than it is currently."

Schmidt:

"It comes back to how you are managing the players and how well is that working," he said. "It's a challenge for provincial coaches to get the best out of their teams all the time when you don't always have the top players available.
"Two years ago (when Schmidt was in charge) through the Six Nations period Leinster got 18 out of 20 available points, last year (with O'Connor at the helm) they got 19 out of 20 available points, this year they got nine out of 20 available points.
"If you look at the teams that were put out through those three years those teams are very similar and have international experience, with guys who have been internationally capped. I think from that perspective the system isn't broken and we're trying to refine it every quarter.
"Every quarter we look at it and every week during the Six Nations when you are focused on trying to get results, focused on the players you have got in camp, I'm talking to the provincial coaches and we're trying to say, 'Look I can get this guy back to you here'. Is that a little bit of a compromise on behalf of the national team? I do believe it is.
"If we have the top 30 players we might get a little more of a seamless preparation into a Test match but I think it is part of what we're trying to contribute to the players' management programme in that we're trying to keep the provinces as competitive as possible, because part of my job description is to try and help the provinces be as competitive as they can be and there is no way that we're trying to obstruct that."

Nucifora:

"Over the last couple of weeks there have been some inaccuracies in what's being said and written about the system," he said. "A lot of that is obviously attributed to Leinster's struggle to qualify for the Pro12 semi-finals.
"The management system is in place not just for the national team, it's in place for the provincial and the national team. By looking after the welfare of the players, we all benefit from that and having them in the best shape they can possibly be."
Nucifora said that O'Connor's 30pc stat is "grossly inaccurate", believing it to be inflated by injury and non-selection.
"When you take injuries and non-selection out of it, that they're available for close on 60pc of the games that they were fit and eligible for selection and ready for," he continued.
"We punch above our weight, we have to look for any advantage we can get over our competitors both to retain talent, to develop talent. So it would be crazy for us to throw away the distinct advantage that we have, that other nations would love to have.
"We're going to continue to evolve this system. We're planning on adding more to it with regards to some ideas we've got with some more science, in our ability to monitor our players all year round and strengthen it.
"It's a massive positive for Irish rugby, provincially and nationally. It's not new. It's been here for a number of years. Over those years, provinces and national teams have managed to win trophies. Hopefully, if we keep improving it, that will continue to be the case."

Emmet:

Fanning is class.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The only thing I'm referring to your post is the idea that anyone has "publicly rubbished" anyone else. Which is a laughable claim

If someone compared their performance in my job to my performance in my job and noted how much better they had performed in the same circumstances I would feel pretty rebuked. The only caveat is that he also mentioned MOC's first season whilst highlighting the comparison.

Either way, MOC came out and said that the league performance this year is because of a problem, and the IRFU through Schmidt and Nucefora have said that no it's not that - and then said it was a player management issue.

The fact that the media has tried to make this look *more* adversarial is a separate issue to the fact that Schmidt effectively said that MOC should look to his own house for answers.

Am I right in saying that it is unprecedented for a head coach to have to rebuke a provincial coach in this way?

shuffol

Is it MOC's responsibilty to be concerned about the Pro 12 as a product? Is it not the priority of the provinces to serve the national side first and foremost.

CatFromHue

It was my understanding that MOC was talking about only having his big players for 30% of the Pro12, not all the games, so there seems to be some confusion there.

ThisRegard

Deleted User wrote: »

Am I right in saying that it is unprecedented for a head coach to have to rebuke a provincial coach in this way?

This is what's jumping out at me, and the fact it was a press briefing called specifically for this and wasn't brought up during the course of a regular press conference.

ThisRegard

ThisRegard wrote: »

This is what's jumping out at me, and the fact it was a press briefing called specifically for this and wasn't brought up during the course of a regular press conference.

Ah it wasn't really a press conference, the media just made that up so us gobeen's would get excited about a bit of drama.

Schmidt just happened to be sitting at a table in IRFU offices with a bunch of microphones pointing at him and he randomly started talking about a completely different matter that just happens to be about teams and people with similar names.

Only an idiot would read anything into it.

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If someone compared their performance in my job to my performance in my job and noted how much better they had performed in the same circumstances I would feel pretty rebuked.

But that didn't happen. He said Leinster this season haven't been as good during the 6 Nations as previous seasons, and even pointed out they did better under MOC last year than they did under him. It's a pretty biased reading of things.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But that didn't happen. He said Leinster this season haven't been as good during the 6 Nations as previous seasons, and even pointed out they did better under MOC last year than they did under him. It's a pretty biased reading of things.

• I did it two years ago
• You did it last year
• You've failed to do it this year
• You are trying to blame the IRFU

Schmidt "It comes back to how you are managing the players and how well is that working"

It's not a biased reading, he is saying that he has failed to manage the players this year. He isn't calling him out as a coach, he is saying that his failings this year are his own making.

You also casually ignored the very next line that I wrote in your quote:

Deleted User wrote: »

The only caveat is that he also mentioned MOC's first season whilst highlighting the comparison.

And I'm the one being biased. Stones in glass houses.

aimee1

CatFromHue wrote: »

It was my understanding that MOC was talking about only having his big players for 30% of the Pro12, not all the games, so there seems to be some confusion there.

one argument that is put across for keeping MOC for next season is the WC etc and how it will be a poor year. IMO it is an ideal year for a new guy, a free year to work a lot with the players who wont be away with the international side so much the following year and to build something for the following season.

This is just painful to watch, allowing for the game 5 days ago there is just nothing to see that makes you think there is progress and improvement.

gally74

aimee1 wrote: »

one argument that is put across for keeping MOC for next season is the WC etc and how it will be a poor year. IMO it is an ideal year for a new guy, a free year to work a lot with the players who wont be away with the international side so much the following year and to build something for the following season.

This is just painful to watch, allowing for the game 5 days ago there is just nothing to see that makes you think there is progress and improvement.

Leinster could drop out of the top 6 the way their playing

thomond2006

The Treviso match will be some spectacle




of silence

Teferi

Alright, so wrap the internationals in cotton wool now that the season is over. The World Cup is more important than a few dead rubbers, let lads like the fange and clontarf mick have a shot. Maybe throw a few academy lads and try give our young scrummie a few games.

thomond2006

One main positive of the season?

Ben T'eo. When he gets a rest and a full pre-season under his belt he's going to be fantastic.

aimee1

Teferi wrote: »

Alright, so wrap the internationals in cotton wool now that the season is over. The World Cup is more important than a few dead rubbers, let lads like the fange and clontarf mick have a shot. Maybe throw a few academy lads and try give our young scrummie a few games.

Luke McGrath is going to get 7 minutes and 35 seconds total gametime now.

gally74

Teferi wrote: »

Alright, so wrap the internationals in cotton wool now that the season is over. The World Cup is more important than a few dead rubbers, let lads like the fange and clontarf mick have a shot. Maybe throw a few academy lads and try give our young scrummie a few games.

Ye have to play Edin away the last day of the season yet only 5 ahead of them....

Swiwi.

I'm not going to discuss the coach, but the single best thing Leinster could do for next season is say thanks for the memories to the ageing veterans (eg Reddan) and the players who are just average (eg Dominic Ryan) and promote some youth.

Crying out for an up-and-coming 9, 10 and 12 to announce themselves on the big stage. I don't know enough about the younger players to suggest names, but there must be players out there.

If ye keep playing the Reddans, Darcys etc, the younger lads will eventually look elsewhere in despair.

aimee1

Swiwi. wrote: »

I'm not going to discuss the coach, but the single best thing Leinster could do for next season is say thanks for the memories to the ageing veterans (eg Reddan) and the players who are just average (eg Dominic Ryan) and promote some youth.

Crying out for an up-and-coming 9, 10 and 12 to announce themselves on the big stage. I don't know enough about the younger players to suggest names, but there must be players out there.

If ye keep playing the Reddans, Darcys etc, the younger lads will eventually look elsewhere in despair.

thats why I think MOC has to go now. A new coach would have a free year essentially.

I would love to see Sexton-Teo-Luke 10-12-13 at some stage next season.

Buer

thomond2006 wrote:

Ben T'eo. When he gets a rest and a full pre-season under his belt he's going to be fantastic.

Bizarrely, some wanted him dropped in the last few weeks. He is rapidly becoming the fulcrum of our attack.

Tox56

gally74 wrote: »

Ye have to play Edin away the last day of the season yet only 5 ahead of them....

5 ahead and our next game is a gimme

Tox56

Buer wrote: »

Bizarrely, some wanted him dropped in the last few weeks. He is rapidly becoming the fulcrum of our attack.

Well in fairness he didnt do much against Bath or Toulon, hes got huge potential but hes incredibly raw for H Cup level and the fulcrum of our attack from 13 has been Fitzgerald all season

total former

Tox56 wrote: »

Well in fairness he didnt do much against Bath or Toulon, hes got huge potential but hes incredibly raw for H Cup level and the fulcrum of our attack from 13 has been Fitzgerald all season

All season? How many games has he played there this season?

Swiwi.

aimee1 wrote: »

thats why I think MOC has to go now. A new coach would have a free year essentially.

I would love to see Sexton-Teo-Luke 10-12-13 at some stage next season.

I really don't think Teo is a 12. But I guess maybe worth a try. Doesn't strike me as having any kicking side to his game at all though. I agree Fitzgerald might be better back at 13. He still can't seem to score on the wing, I have no idea why, but his strike rate for a winger remains low.

I just can't get over the 9 situation though, re-signing Boss and Reddan is just crazy IMO, and Reddan has been very poor in recent weeks.

Buer

Tox56 wrote:

Well in fairness he didnt do much against Bath or Toulon, hes got huge potential but hes incredibly raw for H Cup level and the fulcrum of our attack from 13 has been Fitzgerald all season

Te'o has been our most consistent threat since January. Fitz hasn't been around much, relatively, in that period.

He's well away from the finished article but he is a certainty in the starting side.