Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

Heroditas

What bugs me is we looked superb for the first 15mins yesterday. Also, Gopperth is excellent at running at defences when we are on the front foot.
His kicking game is awful though.
I actually think that MOCball will work with Sexton at the helm. His kicking game will force teams back much better than Madigan or Gopperth can achieve.
The staleness in the backline still massively concerns me but, judging by the last few weeks, Te'o could improve an awful lot of that. Te'o, Reid and Luke for 12/13 with the likes of Crosbie and Ringrose coming through isn't half bad.

I don't think I would have been as "glass half full" a few weeks ago.

To be honest, we should try a load of the younger lads next week and start looking at next season.

stephen_n

Heroditas wrote: »

To be honest, we should try a load of the younger lads next week and start looking at next season.

We can't really afford to slip up or we could end up going to Edinburgh needing a win to secure 6th and that would not be a good situation to be in.

vienne86

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Madigan and Dominic Ryan for Marmion? Mads gets some quality time at 10 and we get ourselves a good 9

Or maybe Madigan should start playing 9.

Buer

vienne86 wrote: »

Or maybe Madigan should start playing 9.

When a guy struggles with decision making and directing play, I don't think 9 can be a consideration.

Interested Observer

It's not going to be Madigan obviously but Leinster desperately need someone who isn't Boss or Reddan at 9. They are both so poor now. Was hoping there would be a signing but not going to happen at this stage. I've given up on McGrath getting any sort of look in.

Buer

Interested Observer wrote: »

It's not going to be Madigan obviously but Leinster desperately need someone who isn't Boss or Reddan at 9. They are both so poor now. Was hoping there would be a signing but not going to happen at this stage. I've given up on McGrath getting any sort of look in.

Boss has been fine in the last couple of months. If he can maintain that level, it's acceptable. Not a position of strength but not as poor as you make out.

Reddan is done.

stephen_n

Buer wrote: »

Boss has been fine in the last couple of months. If he can maintain that level, it's acceptable. Not a position of strength but not as poor as you make out.

Reddan is done.

4 months ago Boss was done, hopefully Reddan can regain form but unless McGrath really steps up next season 9 is going to be a huge problem for us.

total former

People seem to forget how bad Luke McGrath has been during his appearances. Reddan has been awful of late but McGrath is no silver bullet.

Re: signing another 9, it's entirely possible that it wasn't Leinster's call.

stephen_n

total former wrote: »

People seem to forget how bad Luke McGrath has been during his appearances. Reddan has been awful of late but McGrath is no silver bullet.

Re: signing another 9, it's entirely possible that it wasn't Leinster's call.

How so? It was Leinsters call to sign Reddan and Boss, this may have hamstrung them bringing in a NIQ 9 but it was still their decision.

Larbre34

Stringer for a year to cover the World Cup. No brainer, the man is supremely fit and sharp for his vintage.

O'Connor's successor can deal with the long term options.

total former

stephen_n wrote: »

How so? It was Leinsters call to sign Reddan and Boss, this may have hamstrung them bringing in a NIQ 9 but it was still their decision.

Maybe not though.

Right, three absolute truths:
1. IRFU have final say on all signings.
2. Boss and Reddan are 2nd and 3rd choice for the national squad and 99% certain to go to RWC.
3. Signing a decent player at 9 would have to mean letting one of them go.

Think we're all agreed on those?

So, is it at least possible that Joe said "hang on, I need my players under contract for next season cos of the World Cup"? And that would effectively mean no new 9 and decision out of Leinster's hands.

I have no idea if that's what happened but it's definitely plausible.

Buer

Larbre34 wrote: »

Stringer for a year to cover the World Cup. No brainer, the man is supremely fit and sharp for his vintage.

3 month deal, perhaps, a one year deal would be a waste. We've 3 senior scrum halves on the books for next season. He'd be a bit player picking up a salary after the RWC.

vienne86

Larbre34 wrote: »

Stringer for a year to cover the World Cup. No brainer, the man is supremely fit and sharp for his vintage.

O'Connor's successor can deal with the long term options.

Well Stringer has said he is going somewhere next season - nobody seems to know where.

molloyjh

total former wrote: »

People seem to forget how bad Luke McGrath has been during his appearances. Reddan has been awful of late but McGrath is no silver bullet.

Re: signing another 9, it's entirely possible that it wasn't Leinster's call.

I think that's really harsh on McGrath. He hasn't been that bad. He's not a silver bullet but he has been better than Reddan and Boss at their worst and has far greater potential for improvement than they do. His passing gets a lot of attention but if we forensically analysed Reddan and Boss in the same way I'm pretty sure we'd reach similar conclusions. Our basic skills in that department generally have been poor this season. And how can we expect a young guy to improve his passing in an environment where everyone else's is getting worse?

LorMal

Larbre34 wrote: »

Stringer for a year to cover the World Cup. No brainer, the man is supremely fit and sharp for his vintage.

O'Connor's successor can deal with the long term options.

Th answer to our ageing 9's is to bring in someone older? No.

stephen_n

total former wrote: »

Maybe not though.

Right, three absolute truths:
1. IRFU have final say on all signings.
2. Boss and Reddan are 2nd and 3rd choice for the national squad and 99% certain to go to RWC.
3. Signing a decent player at 9 would have to mean letting one of them go.

Think we're all agreed on those?

So, is it at least possible that Joe said "hang on, I need my players under contract for next season cos of the World Cup"? And that would effectively mean no new 9 and decision out of Leinster's hands.

I have no idea if that's what happened but it's definitely plausible.

I think if that was the case though Nucifora would have been more inclined for Boss or Reddan to go west/north for a year, it's not really good having two of the three first choice S/H's at one province at the best of times but yes it's plausible that our hands were tied.

Oh and on your original point, I would say McGrath has been no worse or no better than the other two in the limited time we have seen him, all have been fairly hit and miss.

.ak

But then your assuming either would want to go west...

Interested Observer

Edinburgh have won more league games this season that Leinster. They also supply a lot of players to Scotland and have a much thinner squad. The league performance this year has been a joke.

And the last three games, with the decisions made by the management who to rest and when to rest them, all three games have been defeats.

The playoffs are gone so for the love of god give guys like McGrath and Reid a go for the next two games. I'll be so pissed off if we see the same halfbacks again.

Clegg

Is there a problem with the academy when it comes to producing backs to a high standard, or is it a failure with the coaching set up to bring them in and give them a chance? Surely one of the younger lads could've done as much as Fanning or Mick Mc Grath this season? Right now There seems to be no problem with producing players 1-8.

molloyjh

Clegg wrote: »

Is there a problem with the academy when it comes to producing backs to a high standard, or is it a failure with the coaching set up to bring them in and give them a chance? Surely one of the younger lads could've done as much as Fanning or Mick Mc Grath this season? Right now There seems to be no problem with producing players 1-8.

In fairness the Academy has been more focused on the forwards in the last few years. We've also gotten really unlucky that the likes of McKinley and O'Malley have had to retire through injury. Factor in that Madigan simply hasn't made the step up in the way many had hoped, Conway decided to leave for Munster and guys like Morris and Hudson felt they weren't getting the game time (which was fair enough) and there's a few backs that have been worked on but not panned out the way we might have wanted. McFadden had been playing 12 but wanted the move to the wing to get game time for Leinster and Ireland which I'm sure didn't help either. So there's been a mixture of reasons why we haven't gotten the backs through. Reid has come on a lot though so we might see more of him at 12 next season. But the continued selection of Madigan ahead of him was poor from MOC I thought.

Rightwing

stephen_n wrote: »

4 months ago Boss was done, hopefully Reddan can regain form but unless McGrath really steps up next season 9 is going to be a huge problem for us.

It's crazy. Only a few weeks ago folk were crying out for Reddan to be brought in instead of Murray to freshen & speed things up. Now he is done. :rolleyes:

Larbre34 wrote: »

Stringer for a year to cover the World Cup. No brainer, the man is supremely fit and sharp for his vintage.

O'Connor's successor can deal with the long term options.

MOC must be given at least another season in charge.

David900

Rightwing wrote: »

It's crazy. Only a few weeks ago folk were crying out for Reddan to be brought in instead of Murray to freshen & speed things up. Now he is done. :rolleyes:



MOC must be given at least another season in charge.

I don't buy the last bit. I'm not a person crying for his head but performances have decreased with him at the helm.

If I'm not mistaken, his contract is with the option for a 3rd year. Presumably to be agreed by both sides.
I've resigned to the fact he most likely will be the coach next season but he must not be given another year automatically. He hasn't earned that right.

corny

Rightwing wrote: »

MOC must be given at least another season in charge.

Crazy talk. Leinster have been steadily going downhill with him in charge. You either change direction or watch as we slip further next season.

Interested Observer

Rightwing wrote: »

It's crazy. Only a few weeks ago folk were crying out for Reddan to be brought in instead of Murray to freshen & speed things up. Now he is done. :rolleyes:

Ugh. Person A may believe Reddan would speed things up, person B may believe he's done. You seem to be attributing all comments on Reddan to all people, I wouldn't have thought this needed pointing out but that is a particularly daft thing to do.

Rightwing

corny wrote: »

Crazy talk. Leinster have been steadily going downhill with him in charge. You either change direction or watch as we slip further next season.

I'm a big fan of MOC. Remember Leinster had Toulon on the ropes in France. Was Sexton playing that day, Leinster would now more than likely be in a final. Small margins. Whilst Madigan is a fine player, I think Gatty nailed it when he didn't bring him on Lions tour.

total former

.ak wrote: »

But then your assuming either would want to go west...

Yeah, exactly, they wouldn't.

Again, it's all total speculation but I can't imagine Leinster would have been given much of a hearing if they had asked to sign a 9. The budget was probably shot with Sexton and Nacewa anyway, added to Te'o and Douglas.

Buer

Rightwing wrote: »

It's crazy. Only a few weeks ago folk were crying out for Reddan to be brought in instead of Murray to freshen & speed things up. Now he is done. :rolleyes:

Who on earth was "crying out" for Conor Murray to be dropped for Eoin Reddan?

Reddan's performances have not been at previous levels for the bulk of the season. This isn't something that has suddenly come to a head in recent weeks. He has shown one or two flashes of his old showings off the bench, particularly at home to Harlequins but he's 35 this year and a player who relies on a high tempo, energetic game; it's completely understandable for his performances to be on the slide.

ssaye2

Huge munster fan in moc defence

Sounds legit

thomond2006

It's time to break out the rainy day cash and sign a scrum-half. Your options at 9 look very worrying right now. Send Luke McGrath on loan for a year to get him off the books and playing regularly if you have to.

As it stands I'd be very concerned about Leinster's prospects in the pool stages next year where you are likely to have a tough pool, even with Sexton back he's not a miracle worker if 1-9 aren't up to scratch. The league is another concern as with so many World Cup players away compared to other sides it's possible you'll lose games you would otherwise win and lose ground early.

ssaye2

Cooney might be back in two years looks better each week when he plays
Our options now are average at best if we want to challenge consistently. Age takes its toll. Something needs to be done