Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

Interested Observer

aimee1 wrote: »

with the number 22 on his back ........

Who'll be playing 12?

Swiwi.

I'd consider giving Madigan a run in the A side at 10, and promote Byrne to the senior side. If Madigan really is as good as some maintain, he should rip it up and return to the senior side in triumph with humble pie all round. If Byrne is any good, he'll take to the senior side like a duck to water. Potential win-win.

Pudsy33

If we are going to stick Madigan is the A side he should leave. That's a mental suggestion. His ability has definitely been overstated by some but by the same token he is probably better then some are suggesting. A Leinster Zebo if you will.

Tox56

Swiwi. wrote: »

I'd consider giving Madigan a run in the A side at 10, and promote Byrne to the senior side. If Madigan really is as good as some maintain, he should rip it up and return to the senior side in triumph with humble pie all round. If Byrne is any good, he'll take to the senior side like a duck to water. Potential win-win.

Marsh has played 1 game for Leinster and rips it up at A level, a pretty experienced international like Madigan would have a field day but it's not going to do him much good.

Regardless of his long term future he is still a valuable player in any squad for a number of reasons, MOC has been reluctant to leave him out of the 15 nevermind the 23, they're not going to leave him out for a game of any consequence if they can help it. In any case Byrne won't be ready for this level for a while, Sexton was 4 years older than Byrne is now when he made his breakthrough

Swiwi.

Pudsy33 wrote: »

If we are going to stick Madigan is the A side he should leave. That's a mental suggestion. His ability has definitely been overstated by some but by the same token he is probably better then some are suggesting. A Leinster Zebo if you will.

Well I've said already I think he should leave. I assume people would take Leinster winning silverware again over madigan's career? I'm not sure the 2 are compatible, he's not a 12, he's not better than sexton at 10, and I'm not convinced he's the best possible backup to sexton at 10 going forward. Look at the Chiefs they have Damian McKenzie at 19 years old playing 10 for them at times. Already being talked about as a major star. Madigan's is what 26? 27? his ship has stalled. If he wants to sticks at Leinster a dose of confidence from starting consistently at 10 and ripping it up for the A side might help. I'm probably being silly though.

wise7

Tox56 wrote: »

Marsh has played 1 game for Leinster and rips it up at A level, a pretty experienced international like Madigan would have a field day but it's not going to do him much good.

Regardless of his long term future he is still a valuable player in any squad for a number of reasons, MOC has been reluctant to leave him out of the 15 nevermind the 23, they're not going to leave him out for a game of any consequence if they can help it. In any case Byrne won't be ready for this level for a while, Sexton was 4 years older than Byrne is now when he made his breakthrough

Does that make it right? Why oh why doe we make a virtue of denying young talent its chance unlike so many other non-Irish clubs who recognise maturity beyond their years when they see and actively promote it!

Interested Observer

wise7 wrote: »

Does that make it right? Why oh why doe we make a virtue of denying young talent its chance unlike so many other non-Irish clubs who recognise maturity beyond their years when they see and actively promote it!

Could not agree more. The age Sexton was when he made his breakthrough is completely irrelevant to whether Byrne is ready or not. Having said that I am struggling to see Byrne getting into the senior squad yet.

wise7

Interested Observer wrote: »

Could not agree more. The age Sexton was when he made his breakthrough is completely irrelevant to whether Byrne is ready or not. Having said that I am struggling to see Byrne getting into the senior squad yet.

He or Marsh can't get even close to breaking through if they are not given precious minutes in Pro 12 off the bench to start to experience the pace of the pro game. Arguably Byrne has got there already on the pace and intensity dimensions with 15 U-20 caps under his belt to date and when you look at having played against the likes of France/England/Wales and New Zealand at that level it is pretty fast and furious. What is this thing about waiting another 3 or 4 years to be given your chance? There is a lot of talent in the academy right now which will not all sit on their hands given the predatory of French and english clubs.

LorMal

What a bunch of ****. Realise ill be banned. Don't care.

Mod: Good for you. Banned.

SaveOurLyric

LorMal wrote: »

What a bunch of ****. Realise ill be banned. Don't care.

I wouldnt go that far about them. There are still some seriously good players in the squad. Thats what makes the non-performance so frustrating. Heaslip for example. There has indeed been a touch of the show pony about him in the past, where he only really produces a couple of top games a season as if he cant be bothered the rest of the time. But sustained a very high level throughout all this season.

Buer

SaveOurLyric wrote:

There has indeed been a touch of the show pony about him in the past, where he only really produces a couple of top games a season as if he cant be bothered the rest of the time. But sustained a very high level throughout all this season.

He has consistently been in our top few players every season since turning professional.

The show pony claims were only ever to undermine him by those who simply don't like him. There was never any logic or evidence to support it.

robluvshandegg

2015 Isa Nacewa CAPTAIN

15

2011 Isa Nacewa
Fergus McFadden

14

Fionn Carr
Ben Te’o

13

Brendan Macken
Noel Reid

12

Eoin O'Malley
2015 Dave Kearney

11

2011 Dave Kearney
Ross Byrne

10

Ian Madigan
Luke McGrath

9

Cillian Willis
Michael Bent

1

Heinke van der Merwe
Bryan Byrne

2

Richardt Strauss
Tadhg Furlong

3

Jamie Hagan
Kane Douglas

4

Damian Browne
Ben Marshall

5

Devin Toner
2015 Kevin McLaughlin

6

2011 Kevin McLaughlin
2015 Dominic Ryan

7

2011 Dominic Ryan
Jack Conan

8

Rhys Ruddock CAPTAIN
2015 Aaron Dundon

16

2011 Aaron Dundon
Edward Byrne

17

Jack McGrath
???

18

Jack O'Connell
Tom Denton

19

Mark Flanagan
Josh van Der Flier

20

Leo Auva’a
Nick McCarthy

21

John Cooney
Steve Crosbie

22

Mat Berquist
Zane Kirchner

23

Darren Hudson

Trying to put together our squad for the world cup games. Team on the right is the backbone of the team in 2011 which won 4/6 games before the first teamers came back.

Out of a 22 game regular season these guys will be the team for the first 6-7 games.

If Ireland do hopefully make a semi-final I'd imagine we'll have to wait at least another game longer to get them back, meaning at least 7 games with this group.

We're guaranteed to see a lot of a new ten and Luke McGrath next season.

Next season could be over before it begins if MOC can't extract the max out of our 2nd/3rd stringers.

sydthebeat

Don't think dundon is contracted next year.

Royce Burke Flynn for the 18 shirt

phog

Zane Kirchner @23 during the International window is a huge waste of an NIQ spot and finance.

irishbucsfan

phog wrote: »

Zane Kirchner @23 during the International window is a huge waste of an NIQ spot and finance.

Crazy, isn't it? I suppose we don't know how good Isa will be so it could well be him on the bench with Kirchner at 15, but I'd definitely have Ferg/Kearney ahead of him.

Swiwi.

sydthebeat wrote: »

Don't think dundon is contracted next year.

Royce Burke Flynn for the 18 shirt

I think Dundon is quite good. Definitely worth an ITM cup contract and who knows maybe even a super squad. A bit underused by Leinster I reckon although he was probably cheap as chips.

irishbucsfan

Swiwi. wrote: »

I think Dundon is quite good. Definitely worth an ITM cup contract and who knows maybe even a super squad. A bit underused by Leinster I reckon although he was probably cheap as chips.

He's focusing on coaching as well as playing, which has an impact on the amount Leinster can rely on him.

vienne86

Swiwi. wrote: »

I think Dundon is quite good. Definitely worth an ITM cup contract and who knows maybe even a super squad. A bit underused by Leinster I reckon although he was probably cheap as chips.

I think he is under-rated. He's been pretty solid when we have needed him, but I gather he is now focussed on his career post playing.

Interested Observer

Dundon always did a good job for Leinster but at this point would prefer to see young Byrne ahead of him, he looks very promising.

Tox56

Interested Observer wrote: »

Could not agree more. The age Sexton was when he made his breakthrough is completely irrelevant to whether Byrne is ready or not. Having said that I am struggling to see Byrne getting into the senior squad yet.

It's not completely irrelevant because he's the last top class halfback Leinster have produced, and it took him a long time and a lot of middling games to learn his position and establish himself, even when he had the ability to be the best in the world. He did break through late, and I don't think it will be 4 years before Byrne gets the chance to establish himself, but you can't expect young 10s to step in and flourish straight away, no matter how good they are

irishbucsfan

Tox56 wrote: »

It's not completely irrelevant because he's the last top class halfback Leinster have produced, and it took him a long time and a lot of middling games to learn his position and establish himself, even when he had the ability to be the best in the world. He did break through late, and I don't think it will be 4 years before Byrne gets the chance to establish himself, but you can't expect young 10s to step in and flourish straight away, no matter how good they are

Yep, have to agree with this.

Saying that, Sexton was an important part of the squad before he broke through, he had even gone through periods as a starter. I hope Sexton has a few years left, so we don't need Byrne to develop any quicker than Sexton did in reality, we just need him to show some signs that he could get there.

stephen_n

Wonder will we see Byrne get any game time during the RWC/6N or will it all be Isa and Marsh, he's not going to start any games but a few 20 minute cameos would be good to see how the higher intensity and physicality affects him.

Tox56

stephen_n wrote: »

Wonder will we see Byrne get any game time during the RWC/6N or will it all be Isa and Marsh, he's not going to start any games but a few 20 minute cameos would be good to see how the higher intensity and physicality affects him.

The faith in Marsh seems to be almost 0 so I definitely wouldn't be surprised, particularly if Byrne has a good JWC

stephen_n

Tox56 wrote: »

The faith in Marsh seems to be almost 0 so I definitely wouldn't be surprised, particularly if Byrne has a good JWC

Well if Isa gets injured and Madigans away, then that only leaves us Marsh and Byrne, can't see Byrne leapfrogging Marsh though. Would like Marsh to have got a little more exposure at the end of games this year to see can he step up.

Interested Observer

Do we think Isa is going to be playing 10? I can see MOC playing him there (he's experienced after all) but he's really not a good 10 and having not played for two years... I just wouldn't want to see it.

Clegg

Not only has it been two years since Isa retired, it's been much longer since he played 10. Cheika did it a few times but I can't remember Schmidt ever doing it much. Would be a waste to bring him back only to play him in a position he's least suited to.

Stheno

Why is Isa coming back? Had they no options to bring in a younger player?

gamma001

Stheno wrote: »

Why is Isa coming back? Had they no options to bring in a younger player?

His experience and mental coaching ability for the backs will be beneficial even if he doesn't get to play all that much. And who knows he might rekindle some of the form he had in his last seasons with leinster.

wise7

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yep, have to agree with this.

Saying that, Sexton was an important part of the squad before he broke through, he had even gone through periods as a starter. I hope Sexton has a few years left, so we don't need Byrne to develop any quicker than Sexton did in reality, we just need him to show some signs that he could get there.

I think this is part of the big problem with Leinster. Management and supporters think we can hoard promising players in the locker for as long as we like. In the game today young players are aware of their own potential and are not shy about seeking out senior rugby opportunities elsewhere rather than hanging on until they are 24/25 to be given a chance. Look at George Ford,Farrell,Jackson,Bigger,etc - all got their chances at 20/21. Even Hanrahan isn't hanging around. It is this complacency that good up and coming players will just sit there and tolerate the slow and conservative integration policy of young players that leinster and especially this current head coach adopts that may bite Leinster very hard when they least expect it. It is not just at 10 but there are talented players like Kelleher,Ringrose, Van de Flier and Leavy (although injury has limited his opportunities so far). Leinster need to recognise a good crop of young talent what they see it and be prepared to use it or lose it.

Interested Observer

Clegg wrote: »

Not only has it been two years since Isa retired, it's been much longer since he played 10. Cheika did it a few times but I can't remember Schmidt ever doing it much. Would be a waste to bring him back only to play him in a position he's least suited to.

It would be totally counterproductive imo, but it's something I can see happening.