Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

jacothelad

Apparently TG4 are making a documentary on O'Connor's sojourn at Leinster. It is to be called 'aMOCalypse Now.'.........:D:D

SaveOurLyric

The theme tune is already written apparently :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBIsyaqpHH8

Words have a clear agenda though - no doubt which side of the fence Griff is on the MOC go or stay debate:


She said leave it till Monday,
I, said no.
She said leave it till the end of the week,
I, said, no go.
Why put off till tomorrow,
what you can do-o today ?
Have your aMOCalypse now,
Dont leave it till later.
Have your aMOClypse now,
Dont be-e a procra-a-stinator.

Clegg

wise7 wrote: »

I think this is part of the big problem with Leinster. Management and supporters think we can hoard promising players in the locker for as long as we like. In the game today young players are aware of their own potential and are not shy about seeking out senior rugby opportunities elsewhere rather than hanging on until they are 24/25 to be given a chance. Look at George Ford,Farrell,Jackson,Bigger,etc - all got their chances at 20/21. Even Hanrahan isn't hanging around. It is this complacency that good up and coming players will just sit there and tolerate the slow and conservative integration policy of young players that leinster and especially this current head coach adopts that may bite Leinster very hard when they least expect it. It is not just at 10 but there are talented players like Kelleher,Ringrose, Van de Flier and Leavy (although injury has limited his opportunities so far). Leinster need to recognise a good crop of young talent what they see it and be prepared to use it or lose it.

Tbf Leinster have been doing excellent work in developing and bringing through forwards at a steady rate. Ruddock, Murphy, the Byrnes, Furlong, Moore , Conan and McGrath have all come through the academy and are either established regulars or first reserves on the bench. Maybe the Byrnes aren't quite there yet, but they're younger. There's plenty of scope and room for the younger forwards to come through, perhaps because of the attritional nature of the job. There's definitely a problem in the backs though. Not that there's a lack of talent coming through, but there's a lot of established players there vying for a position in the regular 23.

thomond2006

Having Kirchner and Nacewa on the books in positions where Leinster are not short and not signing a nine is madness to be honest.

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Having Kirchner and Nacewa on the books in positions where Leinster are not short and not signing a nine is madness to be honest.

Well there is another major problem in our backline which is a complete lack of leadership in our back line that also needed to be addressed.

Also, they are very much in the market for a 9 but I think they're being quite specific in who they're shopping for, we may end up bringing in a short-term signing yet, but that sort of deal wouldn't be done until the summer at least.

dtpc191991

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well there is another major problem in our backline which is a complete lack of leadership in our back line that also needed to be addressed.

Also, they are very much in the market for a 9 but I think they're being quite specific in who they're shopping for, we may end up bringing in a short-term signing yet, but that sort of deal wouldn't be done until the summer at least.

Sexton's return will ease that lack of leadership somewhat but during International season there will still be issues.

irishbucsfan

dtpc191991 wrote: »

Sexton's return will ease that lack of leadership somewhat but during International season there will still be issues.

Yeah, my point was that Isa will be able to help deal with that during international season.

Heroditas

Also, a lot of the young guns will be a year older next season and all that experience should stand to them.
That'll help with the leadership issue.

Regarding Isa, as has been said, not a chance in hell that he will play 10. Whatever about Gopperth and Madigan not being the type of 10 to play O'Connor's style of rugby, Isa certainly isnt!!

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah, my point was that Isa will be able to help deal with that during international season.

I think thomonds point is that the re-signing of Kirchner on top of Isa makes no sense. I think we can all understand what we think/hope Isa can bring. Do we really need Zane as well?

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

I think thomonds point is that the re-signing of Kirchner on top of Isa makes no sense. I think we can all understand what we think/hope Isa can bring. Do we really need Zane as well?

If Kirchner is only capable of bringing to the table what we've seen recently then it's hard to see where we'd need him outside of an injury to Ferg/Kearney. I know he wasn't originally on huge money, maybe that's still the case.

stephen_n

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well there is another major problem in our backline which is a complete lack of leadership in our back line that also needed to be addressed.

Also, they are very much in the market for a 9 but I think they're being quite specific in who they're shopping for, we may end up bringing in a short-term signing yet, but that sort of deal wouldn't be done until the summer at least.

Will we be allowed an NIQ SH with 3 scrum-halves already on the books though.

total former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If Kirchner is only capable of bringing to the table what we've seen recently then it's hard to see where we'd need him outside of an injury to Ferg/Kearney. I know he wasn't originally on huge money, maybe that's still the case.

I'd imagine it is tbh. MOC has never shown any particular inclination to play Kirchner as part of the first team, he's battling with Dave Kearney for the 23 jersey and has never displaced any of Rob Kearney, McFadden or Fitzgerald as a first-teamer.

If he was costing huge money, or we were passing up the option to sign a really big name just to keep him, you'd imagine he'd be outta here. So I reckon our options are more limited than people would like to think.

You'd still hope there's more to come from Kirchner, but he's been pretty average of late.

total former

stephen_n wrote: »

Will we be allowed an NIQ SH with 3 scrum-halves already on the books though.

The only way I could see this happening would be if either Reddan or Boss decides to chuck it in after the RWC, or we can get someone really, really good on a short term deal for the first few months of the season.

I don't think Stringer was ever a realistic prospect but I'd be pretty disappointed if we ended up with someone of that ilk.

sydthebeat

Andy Ellis.

Hard to see him getting into the plane to England.

stephen_n

total former wrote: »

The only way I could see this happening would be if either Reddan or Boss decides to chuck it in after the RWC, or we can get someone really, really good on a short term deal for the first few months of the season.

I don't think Stringer was ever a realistic prospect but I'd be pretty disappointed if we ended up with someone of that ilk.

I'd be happy with Stringer as a short term stop gap, not as a full year contract but he'd never go for that. I was surprised at Boss getting a new contract, to me that suggests it will be another year before we bring in a new scrum-half unless we swap for Marmion but can't see that happening either.

total former

stephen_n wrote: »

I'd be happy with Stringer as a short term stop gap, not as a full year contract but he'd never go for that. I was surprised at Boss getting a new contract, to me that suggests it will be another year before we bring in a new scrum-half unless we swap for Marmion but can't see that happening either.

Boss has been in good form since Christmas, I'd be happy enough to see him here next year, it's Reddan I'm a bit worried about.

Bringing in someone short-term would mean less game time for McGrath and probably none for McCarthy. I don't see how that squares with people saying we need to develop the young lads faster.

BTW, I think the signing of Nacewa is going to be inspired. Not only is he a great player (or, at least he was), not only is he an on-field leader which we desperately need, but he actually got a job as a mental skills coach and it seems that this squad really needs help in that department.

Zzippy

The more I see of Cooney the more amazed I am that Leinster let him go. Pushing Marmion for a starting spot here. Leinster do need a 9 to replace Reddan/Boss, but I think if they put trust in McGrath as Connacht did with Marmion he can really come on and make the jersey his. But MOC won't do that...

Clegg

Lot of pressure on Nick McCarthy now imo. Boss and Reddan are finished even though they've each a year left on their contracts. He's next in line imo. McGrath isn't the answer. He just doesn't have the passing ability.

CatFromHue

Zzippy wrote: »

The more I see of Cooney the more amazed I am that Leinster let him go. Pushing Marmion for a starting spot here. Leinster do need a 9 to replace Reddan/Boss, but I think if they put trust in McGrath as Connacht did with Marmion he can really come on and make the jersey his. But MOC won't do that...

I thought Marmion got his run in first place after POD and Frank Murphy got injured at the same time. He was the most Senior scrum half, but at the start of that season wouldn't have expected to get much gametime at all, left after those two and took his chance very well.

Clegg

I made the mistake of watching highlights from the Leinster/Stade Amlin final at the RDS. Leinster scored three tries from three visits to Stade's 22 in the first half. The efficiency and speed of play was startling to me after having witnessed the dross of the last two seasons. Sure they had Nacewa and Sexton, but that doesn't account for the decline in quality of play. Players were looking for gaps and coming to the ball at pace. So different to our current level where we can pound away for phase after phase and not look even close to scoring a try.

Heaslip is a freak

Total Games
Games = 276
Starts = 264 (started 96% of all games)
Played full 80 = 233 (88% of games started and 84% of ALL games)

Possible minutes = 22100 (276 * 80 + 20)
Played minutes = 20816 (94% of possible minutes)

Leinster
Games = 199
Starts = 191 (started 96% of all games)
Played full 80 = 173 (91% of games started and 87% of ALL games)

Possible minutes = 15940 (199*80+20)
Played minutes = 15115 (95% of possible minutes)

Ireland
Games = 72
Starts = 68 (started 94% of all games)
Played full 80 = 56 (82% of games started and 78% of ALL games)

Possible minutes = 5760 (72 * 80)
Played minutes = 5319 (92% of possible minutes)

Lions
Games = 5
Starts = 5
Played full 80 = 4 (80% of ALL games)

Possible minutes = 400 (5*80)
Played minutes = 382 (96% of possible minutes)

sydthebeat

i dont think any of boss, reddan, mc grath, or mccarty (or any amalgamation of same) are good enough going into next season.

we need a new starting 9

ssaye2

Repeating myself every game cooney looks very good

thomond2006

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well there is another major problem in our backline which is a complete lack of leadership in our back line that also needed to be addressed.

Also, they are very much in the market for a 9 but I think they're being quite specific in who they're shopping for, we may end up bringing in a short-term signing yet, but that sort of deal wouldn't be done until the summer at least.

To follow up on the bolded part, are their quotes from someone at Leinster to that effect?

19543261

Deleted User wrote: »

Heaslip is a freak

Would love to know what the average is for backrow players.

stephen_n

total former wrote: »

Boss has been in good form since Christmas, I'd be happy enough to see him here next year, it's Reddan I'm a bit worried about.

Bringing in someone short-term would mean less game time for McGrath and probably none for McCarthy. I don't see how that squares with people saying we need to develop the young lads faster.

BTW, I think the signing of Nacewa is going to be inspired. Not only is he a great player (or, at least he was), not only is he an on-field leader which we desperately need, but he actually got a job as a mental skills coach and it seems that this squad really needs help in that department.

Boss has turned his form around and Reddans went south, at the moment it's probably Boss who's preferable I'm just worried that both might decline rapidly next season and we will be rightly screwed. Stringer can't play full games but as things stand it will be McGrath and who else during the RWC and what happens if he picks up a knock. Plus Id like stringer to work with McGrath on his passing but can't see him accepting a short term deal.

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

To follow up on the bolded part, are their quotes from someone at Leinster to that effect?

I don't think they've said anything in the media, I don't think you'll ever really get them saying anything like that in the media unless they already had something agreed though.

.ak

Tbh I've always preferred Cooney over McGrath. Really solid scrum half, great pass, doesn't over cook anything and is a real humble dude. However, saying that, I always thought him going to Connacht would be better for all involved. His biggest weakness is decision making, especially in the opp 22, and you can only fix that with game time. Now he's getting more game time with Connacht it's getting better... Hopefully he comes back sometime.

stephen_n

Maybe we are giving Boss back to ulster in return for Piennar lol

irishbucsfan

stephen_n wrote: »

Maybe we are giving Boss back to ulster in return for Piennar lol

No, we're planning on Cooney and Marmion becoming best mates (along with Henshaw) and then bringing the whole bunch of them over en masse, fixing all of our problems in one fell swoop.