Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

irishbucsfan

TommyOM wrote: »

I've said Cheika now isn't the same coach as he was when he was at Leinster. I think his time at Stade showed that he wasn't a great coach back then, certainly not the coach he is now. I felt he was the right fit for Leinster when he came in (less to do with coaching and more man management) However after winning the HC I felt it was time to part ways. I saw more potential in that group of players and thankfully I was proven right when Schmidt came along

You said he was a bad coach when he arrived at Leinster. It's just not true. It's also not true that Matt O'Connor is a bad coach. That's not how any of this works.

total former

Joe Schmidt is a brilliant coach but he wouldn't have been able to be an instant success if Cheika hadn't left him with such a strong squad.

But yeah, Cheika was a disaster for us.

Ridiculous.

TommyOM

total former wrote: »

Joe Schmidt is a brilliant coach but he wouldn't have been able to be an instant success if Cheika hadn't left him with such a strong squad.

But yeah, Cheika was a disaster for us.

Ridiculous.

Way to twist what I am saying. I said Cheika's strengths during that time were his man management and in that I salute him. I also said he was probably the right fit for Leinster at the time he came in. To reiterate, Cheika was a poor coach if you go on the ceiling of that team and his inabilities to get them to consistently play to that ability. His strengths lay in his management of the players and the attitudes he instilled in Leinster rugby. However, he could never consistently get Leinster to perform like they could. The Cheika era was vital for Leinster and a success but after 2009 it was time to part ways. His subsequent time at Stade showed that Cheika wasn't a great coach but these days he's one of the best around.

irishbucsfan

TommyOM wrote: »

Way to twist what I am saying. I said Cheika's strengths during that time were his man management and in that I salute him. I also said he was probably the right fit for Leinster at the time he came in. To reiterate, Cheika was a poor coach if you go on the ceiling of that team and his inabilities to get them to consistently play to that ability. His strengths lay in his management of the players and the attitudes he instilled in Leinster rugby. However, he could never consistently get Leinster to perform like they could. The Cheika era was vital for Leinster and a success but after 2009 it was time to part ways. His subsequent time at Stade showed that Cheika wasn't a great coach but these days he's one of the best around.

Oh did it? Tell us more?

stephen_n

Same problems still prevail, if he goes who replaces him? In and ideal world (we don't live in) I'd love to see Townsend but realistically I don't know of any top level coaches that we could bring in and have never seen a reasonable suggestion by anyone yet in all this time discussing it.

Looking at the team under Joe we had Reddan/Boss, Sexton,D'Arcy, BOD. Reddan and Boss have both had at best hit and miss srasons this year, Sextons not here, D'Arcy has been injured a lot and BOD's retired, it's no coincidence our biggest problems stem from this axis.

On the other hand, we have displayed consistent problems with multiphase play, looking completely disorganized beyond three phases, leading to claims of no gameplan and IMO a definite coaching issue. We have seen our defense disintegrate in the second half of the season but it's very hard to say if that's the system or the players due to the unbelievably high missed tackle count.

If MOC was on a 2 year deal Id be happy enough to say goodbye and don't let the door hit you on the way out. However starting at the beginning and suffering another two years of change doesn't appeal to me either, so I hope that Isa and Sexton returning and hopefully and end to the Madigan experiment will be enough to see MOC's plan (whatever the hell it is) work next season.

Swiwi.

Buer wrote: »

Not sure what to make of Nacewa returning. He was a class act for us but there's so many alarm bells about him returning in these circumstances. He's older, hasn't played in 2 years, is coming back into a completely different side and it's now confirmed that he'll have no coaching input either.

Hopefully it doesn't happen...but there is a definite risk of a Cullen/Muliaina scenario IMO. Time will tell. If he goes well, the legend will be unstoppable.

stephen_n

Swiwi. wrote: »

Hopefully it doesn't happen...but there is a definite risk of a Cullen/Muliaina scenario IMO. Time will tell. If he goes well, the legend will be unstoppable.

He didn't really retire because of injury though, hopefully he's coming back with no injury issues.

Swiwi.

stephen_n wrote: »

He didn't really retire because of injury though, hopefully he's coming back with no injury issues.

Yeah, I hope so too. But he's a back three player, where speed is important, he's 2 years older, but most of all he has played zero rugby, not ITM cup or even Auckland club rugby. Zilch as far as I'm aware. If it's going to work, it's more likely to be like a Pantene shampoo ad: it won't happen overnight, but it will happen.

stephen_n

Swiwi. wrote: »

Yeah, I hope so too. But he's a back three player, where speed is important, he's 2 years older, but most of all he has played zero rugby, not ITM cup or even Auckland club rugby. Zilch as far as I'm aware. If it's going to work, it's more likely to be like a Pantene shampoo ad: it won't happen overnight, but it will happen.

Yeah I'm not very hopeful of him burning players on the outside, in fairness he had already shown signs of slowing up prior to retiring but he brings so much more which hopefully hasn't gone too much (optomistic head), a good solid preseason and we will see how it goes.

TommyOM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Oh did it? Tell us more?

Can you answer why you think MOC should go?

CatFromHue

Nacewa never really burned players on the outside, he wasn't a player that relied on pace, so I'm not sure how much of a problem it'll be for him.

It is a weird signing all right.

Quint2010

Think it's a smart move by Leinster. He will bring experience and nous to the backline and we will need it especially during the World Cup.

awec

"Experience" seems to be the PC way of saying that he's old, past it and his contribution will be limited to making a few on the field decisions.

Honestly I'm worried that a former Leinster star and fan favourite is about to damage his rep.

Willie John McBride could bring some much needed experience to the Ulster pack!

Hagz

It's all speculation at this point. The only person who knows if Isa Nacewa can still produce the goods is Isa Nacewa. Our back-line is severely lacking in individual creativity so he's a welcome addition in my eyes.

CatFromHue

In a back line of

L. McGrath, Marsh/Byrne/somebody, DK, Reid, Teo, ZK

I think Nacewa will be able to add something to that from full back.

Quint2010

awec wrote: »

"Experience" seems to be the PC way of saying that he's old, past it and his contribution will be limited to making a few on the field decisions.

Honestly I'm worried that a former Leinster star and fan favourite is about to damage his rep.

Willie John McBride could bring some much needed experience to the Ulster pack!

Leinster are going to be missing Kearney, Madigan, Fitzgerald, Sexton and either Boss or Reddan up to the middle of November. And possibly either McFadden or Dave Kearney too. Yeah Nacewa is 32 but he has never relied on pace and is a wily operator and fantastic defender. He wont lose those attributes being the age he is.

irishbucsfan

Swiwi. wrote: »

Yeah, I hope so too. But he's a back three player, where speed is important, he's 2 years older, but most of all he has played zero rugby, not ITM cup or even Auckland club rugby. Zilch as far as I'm aware. If it's going to work, it's more likely to be like a Pantene shampoo ad: it won't happen overnight, but it will happen.

There are a lot of full backs who have done perfectly well despite a lack of pace. Stefan Terblanche anyone?

irishbucsfan

TommyOM wrote: »

Can you answer why you think MOC should go?

Firstly I think Leinster need to alter their coaching structure completely by bringing in a director of rugby above a head coach, rather than a head coach and manager.

I wouldn't be dismayed if the Head Coach in that structure was MOC, but I think it should be someone who specialises in teams with weaknesses and youth at half back, and can account for a lack of quality there, as Gregor Townsend has done with Glasgow. MOC has never been able to do that in his career to date.

Swiwi.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There are a lot of full backs who have done perfectly well despite a lack of pace. Stefan Terblanche anyone?

I agree that pace is less important at 15 than on the wing. Yours truly was never that fast, and I was decent enough at schools 2nd XV level...

I just think if people expect Nacewa to turn round Leinster's fortunes, especially at fullback where he is a bit removed from the action, there could be a bit of disapointment.

Hopefully he will still be given respect, even if he turns out to be a flop this time round.

Quint2010

On balance I think it actually makes sense to keep MOC for another year. Next season is going to be a car crash anyway with the WC and us being third/fourth seeds in the ECC. It will give Leinster time to properly recruit and do due-dilligence on a replacement for MOC including a coach that can attract top players. Aren't Heaslip/Healy/SOB's contracts up at the end of next season?

total former

Swiwi. wrote: »

I agree that pace is less important at 15 than on the wing. Yours truly was never that fast, and I was decent enough at schools 2nd XV level...

I just think if people expect Nacewa to turn round Leinster's fortunes, especially at fullback where he is a bit removed from the action, there could be a bit of disapointment.

Hopefully he will still be given respect, even if he turns out to be a flop this time round.

I don't think anyone expects Nacewa to turn things around single-handedly but I think his signing is recognition of what the squad is lacking at the moment.

I don't expect him to be as fast as he was and maybe not as powerful in the tackle, but he's not being signed for that. He's being signed for his personality and leadership abilities, his creativity and awareness which should not have diminished.

Who knows how it will pan out but it's a brave call by MOC.

phog

awec wrote: »

"Experience" seems to be the PC way of saying that he's old, past it and his contribution will be limited to making a few on the field decisions.

Honestly I'm worried that a former Leinster star and fan favourite is about to damage his rep.

Willie John McBride could bring some much needed experience to the Ulster pack!

That's the only concern I have with the signing.

I remember Munster brought back John Langford for a season after he'd left Munster, his 2nd stint wasn't a patch on his first term here.

Larbre34

Nigel Pearson for head coach. First press conference question goes to AJP Ward.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There are a lot of full backs who have done perfectly well despite a lack of pace. Stefan Terblanche anyone?

Even then Terblanche was 3 years older than Nacewa when he joined Ulster, Nacewa's getting on but hes not exactly an OAP, its time out of the game that is his issue

ssaye2

Positivity lads fb or wing and his reading of the game unreal don't want him 10 but not going to say panic buy without even seeing how he plays. Judge after not before. We are so negative in this country And then it's all I told ya so. Annoying.

total former

There's a quote on the Irish Times website that he's had a few chats with O'Connor about his role so while it may not be an official coaching job, it sounds like it's more complex than just playing.

Also, it does my head in when he's described as "Fijian".

Swiwi.

total former wrote: »

There's a quote on the Irish Times website that he's had a few chats with O'Connor about his role so while it may not be an official coaching job, it sounds like it's more complex than just playing.

Also, it does my head in when he's described as "Fijian".

Fijian with Kiwi ancestry. Or did I get that the wrong way round?

total former

Swiwi. wrote: »

Fijian with Kiwi ancestry. Or did I get that the wrong way round?

Yeah, born in NZ, lived all his life there and sought legal advice on getting his one Fiji cap annulled so he could play for NZ.

Swiwi.

total former wrote: »

Yeah, born in NZ, lived all his life there and sought legal advice on getting his one Fiji cap annulled so he could play for NZ.

My obviously way too subtle humour missed its mark

From memory I was still living in NZ when the whole "can he play for NZ" palaver was in full flight. Once he got the definitive no from the IRB he set sail. To
Munster if I'm not mistaken, but my recall is all hazy. Or maybe Ulster. Definitely not Leinster anyway. I'd remember that.

vienne86

I'm a huge fan of Isa, but am really surprised he is interested in coming back. Anyway, I just hope it works out and that we don't all have our hopes set too high. Not sure it is a great idea, but I'm sure he'll be useful.