Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

Clearlier

total former wrote: »

So the senior squad for next season then:

LH: Healy, McGrath, Bent, Byrne, Hirst
Hooker: Cronin, Strauss, Byrne, Dundon, Tracy
TH: Ross, Moore, Furlong, Burke-Flynn, Hagan (3-mth deal)
Second-row: Toner, McCarthy, [Douglas], Kearney, Denton, Beirne, Thornbury
Back-row: SOB, Ruddock, Heaslip, Murphy, McLaughlin, D Ryan, Conan, Leavy, van der Flier, T Ryan (3-mth deal)
SH: Reddan, Boss, McGrath
OH: Sexton, Madigan, Marsh
Centre: Te'o, Reid, O'Shea
Back-three: R Kearney, Fitzgerald, D Kearney, McFadden, Kirchner, Fanning, McGrath

Obvious gap is at centre, so might see McFadden playing more there than last season, ditto for Luke. I've left D'Arcy out because I don't know if he's actually going to play for us if he doesn't make the RWC.

Nacewa is missing from the back 3. Also, depending on the coaching team obviously I'd include Madigan as an option at centre. I know that he hasn't had a great season there but then none of the backline did really and he certainly wasn't hopeless.

stephen_n

Is Dundon not gone?

CatFromHue

Can't O'Shea play 13 too?

If so and if those 3 can keep fit I wouldn't be too surprised to see the centre spots rotated between the 3 of them.

total former

stephen_n wrote: »

Is Dundon not gone?

I thought he was, but he was at one of the Leinster summer camps last week in all his gear. Then again, so was Kane Douglas.

molloyjh

total former wrote: »

So the senior squad for next season then:

LH: Healy, McGrath, Bent, Byrne, Hirst
Hooker: Cronin, Strauss, Byrne, Dundon, Tracy
TH: Ross, Moore, Furlong, Burke-Flynn, Hagan (3-mth deal)
Second-row: Toner, McCarthy, [Douglas], Kearney, Denton, Beirne, Thornbury
Back-row: SOB, Ruddock, Heaslip, Murphy, McLaughlin, D Ryan, Conan, Leavy, van der Flier, T Ryan (3-mth deal)
SH: Reddan, Boss, McGrath
OH: Sexton, Madigan, Marsh
Centre: Te'o, Reid, O'Shea
Back-three: R Kearney, Fitzgerald, D Kearney, McFadden, Kirchner, Fanning, McGrath, Nacewa

Obvious gap is at centre, so might see McFadden playing more there than last season, ditto for Luke. I've left D'Arcy out because I don't know if he's actually going to play for us if he doesn't make the RWC.

Dundon is gone and Beirne is on a short term contract too.

Dundon is in press pics with Nacewa and McLaughlin at the summer camps so don't think he is gone!

http://cms10.sotic.net/rdimages/leinster/1020043.jpg

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/mobile/branch/13680.php

thomond2006

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Dundon is in press pics with Nacewa and McLaughlin at the summer camps so don't think he is gone!

http://cms10.sotic.net/rdimages/leinster/1020043.jpg

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/mobile/branch/13680.php

Could he just be sticking around until after RWC?

total former

thomond2006 wrote: »

Could he just be sticking around until after RWC?

Yeah, that's the most likely explanation with Strauss and Cronin going to be absent.

molloyjh

total former wrote: »

Yeah, that's the most likely explanation with Strauss and Cronin going to be absent.

Regardless I'm happy. I've always like Dundon and was disappointed when I heard he was packing it in. A real solid back-up to have.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

Regardless I'm happy. I've always like Dundon and was disappointed when I heard he was packing it in. A real solid back-up to have.

Afaik he is looking to become a scrum coach.

sydthebeat

So dundon hasn't retired / gone into coaching?

Edit: doh, read the last page before replying

Zzippy

total former wrote: »

Well definitely, and the Connacht fans weren't very pleased when he left there either, but the further back you have to go for the good performances, the less likely it is that they'll be repeated (this is known as the O'Leary Corollary).

"Useless" is probably very harsh actually, he's plenty good enough to be a 3-month back-up during the RWC.

Think Dan McFarland got the best out of him when he was with Connacht. His form went off a cliff when he went to Leinster. People blamed his fitness, but Leinster had plenty of time to improve that and his form didn't improve. Maybe just doesn't have the motivation to be a top pro and man management at Leinster/LI couldn't get the best out of him. Well able to do a job at Pro12 level so I wouldn't be too worried for duration of RWC.

Buer

Zzippy wrote: »

His form went off a cliff when he went to Leinster. People blamed his fitness, but Leinster had plenty of time to improve that and his form didn't improve.

It did, hugely, in fairness. I think his form "going off a cliff" owed in no small part to how he was judged relatively. It was a very different measurement for him at Leinster similar to how tough Fionn Carr found it after a few years of calls for him to be in the Irish squad.

It was an improved Hagan that departed Leinster than the one that arrived culminating in a deserved Irish cap, jumping Michael Bent and keeping Marty Moore out of a breakthrough at both Leinster and Ireland.

It was Hagan himself who said in an interview his conditioning was suspect when he arrived from Connacht having eased off in his final season there and that he'd never let it happen again to him.

awec

You are not going to believe who I saw looking at a house in Dundrum earlier.

#excited
#redbean

total former

Sounds more and more like Cullen is going to be head coach this year.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/rob-kearney-demands-more-from-young-leinster-squad-in-world-cup-year-1.2285066

Podge_irl

Rob Kearney wrote:

“Yeah, I think it’s brilliant [Cullen’s appointment]. Last year we provably moved away from some aspects of our culture; [it] seemed to diminish a bit. Leo’s huge strength is that he’s a Leinster man through and through.

That...doesn't sound great.

#MOCIN

total former

Podge_irl wrote: »

That...doesn't sound great.

In fairness, MOC never got Leinster culture. I never once saw him in 3FE or Donnybrook Fair, he was hardly ever in VIP magazine and his number of product endorsements was laughably small. He was doomed from day one.

molloyjh

I'm still just cautiously optimistic about Dempsey. Not at all keen on Leo as head coach but I am excited to see what Girv can do with the backs.

What happened to that positivity train TF?

vienne86

total former wrote: »

Sounds more and more like Cullen is going to be head coach this year.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/rob-kearney-demands-more-from-young-leinster-squad-in-world-cup-year-1.2285066

Ah no! I'm not at all happy to hear that. I hate this 'jobs for the boys' feel about it, regardless of how good he might be.

thomond2006

At least Anthony Foley paid his dues for many years and did a great job as forwards coach before being promoted to the main gig. What has Cullen done to deserve it?

total former

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm still just cautiously optimistic about Dempsey. Not at all keen on Leo as head coach but I am excited to see what Girv can do with the backs.

What happened to that positivity train TF?

I've been positive all season, I'm on my summer break, so it's grinding pessimism from here until the first warm-up game.

I dunno, this "Leinster culture" idea is a bit like the "Munster ethos" stick that was used to relentlessly flog Rob Penney, so hopefully this is the last we hear of it. If Cullen is the right man for the job on his coaching merits, then fair enough, if he can deliver the kick up the arse that is collectively needed, great, but length of time hanging around Donnybrook shouldn't come into it.

awec

Talking about Leinster culture is just another way of saying that you can't think of anything to say regarding his achievements or abilities as a coach.

salmocab

I wouldn't read in too much that Cullen is in for the season, if he was they would have announced it. I reckon they will be looking for a new head coach but if in the meantime things are working out they might leave him there. Don't think Cullen based on last season has earned a promotion though.

Podge_irl

total former wrote: »

I dunno, this "Leinster culture" idea is a bit like the "Munster ethos" stick that was used to relentlessly flog Rob Penney, so hopefully this is the last we hear of it. If Cullen is the right man for the job on his coaching merits, then fair enough, if he can deliver the kick up the arse that is collectively needed, great, but length of time hanging around Donnybrook shouldn't come into it.

It sounds incredibly similar and I thought it was nonsense then and I rate Foley more than I do Cullen as a coach.

It's a positively stupid, and wildly unreassuring, reason to give for hiring a coach. The "Leinster culture" before Cheika came in was a complete cluster-**** of disharmony for example. Schmidt completely overhauled the "culture" again as well in his own way. I want to know what he brings that is new.

awec

The new guy will be grand anyway.

Schmidt raised expectations to insane levels (too high, to be quite honest) so whoever followed him was on a hiding to nothing from the minute they walked in the door. MOC did alright, I don't think the Leinster team is as good as some people think but his two year tenure has somewhat lowered expectations to a more realistic level.

shuffol

awec wrote: »

Talking about Leinster culture is just another way of saying that you can't think of anything to say regarding his achievements or abilities as a coach.

Certainly reads that way, when he was pressed on what he meant by Leinster culture later on in the piece he seemed to completely dodge the question and gave a waffly politician like response.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

Talking about Leinster culture is just another way of saying that you can't think of anything to say regarding his achievements or abilities as a coach.

Yeah this. Like the interview with himself, POC and Jack McGrath at the jersey launch. They were being asked how much of a difference it makes, and in that situation you've got to say something positive, you can hardly say "ah look, it really doesn't matter a sh!te to be honest". So you end up with a waffly BS answer. I'm sure this is a similar situation.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

The new guy will be grand anyway.

Schmidt raised expectations to insane levels (too high, to be quite honest) so whoever followed him was on a hiding to nothing from the minute they walked in the door. MOC did alright, I don't think the Leinster team is as good as some people think but his two year tenure has somewhat lowered expectations to a more realistic level.

Ah I don't know. The truth is somewhere in the middle I reckon. We weren't capable of our HEC winning best by any means, but we were still capable of more than we got last season.

irishbucsfan

Cullen may turn out to be an excellent head coach, I'm more than willing to give him a chance. He isn't going to be as good as his predecessors on day one though, I hope people will have the patience to let him grow into the role.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Cullen may turn out to be an excellent head coach, I'm more than willing to give him a chance. He isn't going to be as good as his predecessors on day one though, I hope people will have the patience to let him grow into the role.

Anyone has the potential to turn out to be an excellent head coach. This issue is not that he has no potential at all.

The question is whether or not it's wise to allow a completely novice and unproven coach cut his teeth at coaching at a club at Leinster's level while surrounded by his mates.

Tox56

molloyjh wrote: »

Ah I don't know. The truth is somewhere in the middle I reckon. We weren't capable of our HEC winning best by any means, but we were still capable of more than we got last season.

We are capable of winning the H cup, it just shouldn't be an expectation. But i really don't think it is, even under Schmidt people weren't expecting that level of success every season

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

Anyone has the potential to turn out to be an excellent head coach. This issue is not that he has no potential at all.

The question is whether or not it's wise to allow a completely novice and unproven coach cut his teeth at coaching at a club at Leinster's level while surrounded by his mates.

Well that's only relevant to me if there was a better option available to us which we've turned down, I don't really think that's the case. In the absence of an alternative I'm happy to be patient.

Teferi

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Cullen may turn out to be an excellent head coach, I'm more than willing to give him a chance. He isn't going to be as good as his predecessors on day one though, I hope people will have the patience to let him grow into the role.

He was shite last year though?

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well that's only relevant to me if there was a better option available to us which we've turned down, I don't really think that's the case. In the absence of an alternative I'm happy to be patient.

Dempsey is a better option. At least he has more experience of running a team.

Dempsey is doing what Cullen should have been doing at another club before getting a sniff of the Leinster coaching jobs. Maybe Dempsey has turned it down though, I wouldn't blame him as it could easily harm his career if he's not ready. If Dempsey isn't ready after his years in the academy how can Cullen be ready 12 months after retiring?

total former

awec wrote: »

If Dempsey isn't ready after his years in the academy how can Cullen be ready 12 months after retiring?

Well, Cullen has at least been involved day-to-day with the senior team, Dempsey has done a fine job with the Academy but it's still just the Academy, it's no real indicator of how he might make the step up.

From the outside looking in, Cullen's first year wasn't a success on any front, but maybe there's more to it than that and he has the ability. All we can do at this stage is give him a chance, hope for the best and start sharpening the pitchforks just in case.

total former

total former wrote: »

Well, Cullen has at least been involved day-to-day with the senior team, Dempsey has done a fine job with the Academy but it's still just the Academy, it's no real indicator of how he might make the step up.

From the outside looking in, Cullen's first year wasn't a success on any front, but maybe there's more to it than that and he has the ability. All we can do at this stage is give him a chance, hope for the best and start sharpening the pitchforks just in case.

Another aspect of this is that Leinster said they were actively looking for a replacement for MOC. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for Cullen.

I think Kearney coming out to support him and being critical of the last tw year shows how fickle player comments are. Literally 3 months ago he was backing MOC.

stephen_n

Hopefully Kearney was alluding to the sort of culture that developed under Cheika and Schmidt, a positve work ethic from the junior and senior players, in other words a reversal of the things Jenno pointed to and who knows maybe as a head coach, Leo might be the one to do that, as he did as a player.

.ak

Feck, just seen a blog post a rumour about T'eo about to sign a contract with Queenslands Cowboys, to go back to NRL.

wicklowwonder

.ak wrote: »

Feck, just seen a blog post a rumour about T'eo about to sign a contract with Queenslands Cowboys, to go back to NRL.

I read the same, it's mid season there though. If he signs I would guess we would have him for the World Cup until the end of year and then off to pre-season there for February. Maybe he is genuinely homesick....

That'll be annoying if true, he has been starting to show some signs of 'getting it'. Always had the power, strength and speed, which can cover for a lot, but he has certainly been showing promise about growing the understanding.

.ak

wicklowwonder wrote: »

I read the same, it's mid season there though. If he signs I would guess we would have him for the World Cup until the end of year and then off to pre-season there for February. Maybe he is genuinely homesick....

Well I know he was homesick in the first few months here... but was hoping he'd felt better after a positive season under his belt.

thomond2006

.ak wrote: »

Feck, just seen a blog post a rumour about T'eo about to sign a contract with Queenslands Cowboys, to go back to NRL.

That's terrible news if true. He showed a lot of positive signs last season that he was going to be a success.

wicklowwonder

.ak wrote: »

Well I know he was homesick in the first few months here... but was hoping he'd felt better after a positive season under his belt.

An off season at home may have reignited than home sickness. If true we are very unlucky with NIQs....

molloyjh

I really hope that isn't true. I was looking forward to seeing what he could do this season. It also leaves us a bit short at centre even when the internationals get back. Luke isn't going to want to move back to 13 if it makes his life harder at international level. Ferg isn't an OC. That really only leaves COS and Ringrose, or am I forgetting someone really obvious here?

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

I really hope that isn't true. I was looking forward to seeing what he could do this season. It also leaves us a bit short at centre even when the internationals get back. Luke isn't going to want to move back to 13 if it makes his life harder at international level. Ferg isn't an OC. That really only leaves COS and Ringrose, or am I forgetting someone really obvious here?

Reid can play 13 at a push.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

Reid can play 13 at a push.

At a push, but then who plays 12? Ferg maybe?

awec

Lads I've told you before, anyone who's number is greater than 10 won't matter under the next coach.

You could play Amy Huberman at 12.

.ak

BOD back for a kick about?

Heroditas

molloyjh wrote: »

or am I forgetting someone really obvious here?

Henshaw