Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

errlloyd

Clegg wrote: »

Didn't realise Healy had a neck problem. Thought it was his shoulder. Had surgery today, but there's no time frame for when he'll be back.

I presume you found out because Mo'C mentioned it in reference to only scoring one try against one of the worst teams in Europe?

vienne86

Synode wrote: »

If MOC's coaching style is to give the players more freedom and let them play what's in front of them, at what point is he going to see that it isn't working and change his tactics? That was a strong team out tonight and we looked absolutely clueless in attack. Again. For the umpteenth time this season. Please God can we try changing the coaches. It's getting tougher and tougher watching Leinster

It was not fun sitting in the North stand watching that rubbish tonight. I just felt glad the season is as good as over. If they keep up this crap next season, attendences are going to suffer. The atmosphere was non-existent. I am in a group of 9 but there were only 3 of us there tonight.

wise7

CatFromHue wrote: »

The 9, 10, and 12 were clueless with the ball too, in general the players looked like they wanted to be anywhere else tonight.

I'm beginning to think is it best for both parties (MOC and Leinster) to part at this stage. It's getting like Moyes at United where he's just not going to be able to win as it's all going against him.

its not complicated but incredibly simple. MOC is not up to it as a coach. he has consistently selected a 10 who at best is a 'B Movie Star' who cannot run a game. has no clue or ability to play good territory, release players in space and be at least two phases ahead in his head about where the game is going. After that it all falls apart with no runners (apart for the the 'one-offs') offering themselves as options to keep the opposition guessing. The first up tackles have been dreadful and again MOC is meant to be a credible defence coach! Long time since it was time to call time on this unacceptable rubbish. Brains Trust of Leinster - Just act now please!

CatFromHue

In fairness though he is picking the best 10 he has available.

wise7

CatFromHue wrote: »

In fairness though he is picking the best 10 he has available.

He has steadfastly refused to give Marsh even a single minute of game time over the past 2 seasons. Also why was Luke Mc Grath denied an opportunity to come off the bench tonight as a 34 year old and a 35 year old were both picked at 9?. MOC is a stubborn man who does not trust youth in his backline. Kelleher is another who should have got some game time this season but again no chance under this coach.

vienne86

CatFromHue wrote: »

In fairness though he is picking the best 10 he has available.

MOC's game plan, such as it is, requires a good half back partnership. We don't have that.

CatFromHue

vienne86 wrote: »

MOC's game plan, such as it is, requires a good half back partnership. We don't have that.

Every game plan requires a good half backs

Synode

vienne86 wrote: »

MOC's game plan, such as it is, requires a good half back partnership. We don't have that.

Which means he should be changing the game plan to suit the players he does have. He's supposed to be our backs coach and without a doubt that's the area we are poorest in. He has to go

Clegg

Heaslip is some man though. Been by far and away Leinster's stand out player this season. Doesn't know how not give give 100% every game.

wise7

Synode wrote: »

Which means he should be changing the game plan to suit the players he does have. He's supposed to be our backs coach and without a doubt that's the area we are poorest in. He has to go

Potentially he has really good players right under his nose but refuses to look at them. How long before the IRFU paymasters step in to prevent a mass exodus of the younger players who will not wait until their mid-20's to be given a chance?

ktulu123

Anyone get to the presentation for Darce & Jennings? Any good? How were the lads?

CatFromHue

Darce seemed to be shedding a tear or two at the end of the game when he met up with his wife and I assume parents.

He will be missed.

irishbucsfan

Synode wrote: »

Which means he should be changing the game plan to suit the players he does have. He's supposed to be our backs coach and without a doubt that's the area we are poorest in. He has to go

Changing it to what?

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Changing it to what?

A more prescribed game plan????

CatFromHue

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

A more prescribed game plan????

Which would be...?

EDIT: I'm asking how a different coach would have made any difference yesterday, when the problems were so clearly coming from incompetence at half back. Give me any game plan that could have been used yesterday, in dismal weather, that do not rely on competent half backs. Such a game plan doesn't exist.

total former

Ahhh, nothing like waking up with the satisfaction of a job well done, European qualification in the bag and mighty Treviso dispatched.

Reddan's drop in form is somewhat alarming, however. What is happening to him?

irishbucsfan

total former wrote: »

Ahhh, nothing like waking up with the satisfaction of a job well done, European qualification in the bag and mighty Treviso dispatched.

Reddan's drop in form is somewhat alarming, however. What is happening to him?

I don't think he's really ever been able to play well on nights like last night. I don't think he ever should have been starting last night.

Both our half backs were poor, but also our kick chase was poor at times as well. We really need leadership in our back line, it's hard to see where that's going to come from next season when the internationals are away.

Rob Kearney was a bright spark though, he seems to be the only person in the team who can win territory with his boot at the moment.

El_Duderino 09

I'm not an expert and I don't think I can 'read the matrix' when I watch rugby. But it's clear that the game plan isn't laid out as plainly as when watching Ireland.

The kick chase is such a strange thing to watch Leinster do this year. Sometimes they kick a high bell and don't chase leaving a full back time to catch and return fire. The kick chase against Bath was very strange to watch. It looked like half the team were playing a running game and the other half were playing the kick chase.

The team must be demoralised and exhausted given the injuries and Ireland call ups and the negative press. I'm sure it'll be better next year with sexton and Isa back.

Leinster won't fire MOC so there's no point whinging about it. I would like to see more of the young players get a chance but it's best to introduce young players alongside seasoned leaders. This year had so many seasoned leaders missing due to Ireland and injury, it made risking those guys really difficult.

I'm not MOC's biggest fan, but he didn't have a great deal this year.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Which would be...?

EDIT: I'm asking how a different coach would have made any difference yesterday, when the problems were so clearly coming from incompetence at half back. Give me any game plan that could have been used yesterday, in dismal weather, that do not rely on competent half backs. Such a game plan doesn't exist.

You've said before that MOC is looking for Leinster to play what's in front of them more and is asking the half-backs to make the decisions on what to play and when rather than having a more traditionally structured plan. At this stage I don't care what game plan we implement as it seems to me that we are asking our half-backs to do too much. They aren't the guys to implement that style of game. I'd wonder can anyone tbh. Reduce the number of decisions they need to make by having a more rigid game plan. I actually don't care what the plan is at this stage so long as we have guys who all know exactly what they are supposed to be doing and are all on the same page. If we at least have that then we can build from there and develop the game plan from there.

ktulu123

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Rob Kearney... with his boot at the moment.

That is the only thing Rob offers now, he is zero attacking threat. Works well with Ireland because Joe knows how to use him in set plays etc but all he does with Leinster is run straight back into the defense without passing

irishbucsfan

ktulu123 wrote: »

That is the only thing Rob offers now, he is zero attacking threat. Works well with Ireland because Joe knows how to use him in set plays etc but all he does with Leinster is run straight back into the defense without passing

But that's exactly what we need from him and he's excellent at it. He does offer an attacking threat, but we don't need him to be a threat, we need him to win territory when needed, or alternatively set up first phase as efficiently as possible. He's the best in the world at both of those at the moment. He is a world class player, even if he's not going to excite many.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

You've said before that MOC is looking for Leinster to play what's in front of them more and is asking the half-backs to make the decisions on what to play and when rather than having a more traditionally structured plan. At this stage I don't care what game plan we implement as it seems to me that we are asking our half-backs to do too much. They aren't the guys to implement that style of game. I'd wonder can anyone tbh. Reduce the number of decisions they need to make by having a more rigid game plan. I actually don't care what the plan is at this stage so long as we have guys who all know exactly what they are supposed to be doing and are all on the same page. If we at least have that then we can build from there and develop the game plan from there.

But that's not really an answer to the question, which is really my point.

A more rigid game plan does NOT reduce the reliance on the half backs. That's incredibly wide of the mark. Ireland are entirely reliant on Sexton/Murray while Glasgow are not reliant on their half backs nearly as much. I think these criticisms are just so wildly misplaced. Our half backs are a complete necessity unfortunately, and we need an overhaul in that department, the only other problem we're really repeatedly having is inconsistency in the set piece, eliminate those and we can move on to criticising other things, but first we need new half backs.

total former

I think Rob Kearney is the most under-rated player in Ireland. For a guy who has been undisputed first choice for Leinster and Ireland for 6 years, two Lions tours and a heap of medals, it's mad how often you see people here telling us he's crap.

Buer

ktulu123 wrote: »

That is the only thing Rob offers now, he is zero attacking threat. Works well with Ireland because Joe knows how to use him in set plays etc but all he does with Leinster is run straight back into the defense without passing

Kearney is used nearly identically for both Ireland and Leinster. Gets the ball back to his pack, kicks well, strong positional sense.

Buer

You'd have to say that Scarlets are looking a tempting outside bet to take 5th spot from us at this point. We're 8 points clear of them but they have two solid shots at BP wins (Blues at home and Treviso away). If they only get one BP win and 9 points, we need to win in Edinburgh to be sure...lose by more than 7 and we finish 6th.

Hopefully they only squeak a win at home tomorrow leaving them a mountain to climb in terms of points difference. But they'll go out and throw the ball around in Italy and are well capable of putting up a score there.

If they get the two BP wins, we need to win in Edinburgh. Don't think we will.

Interested Observer

Didn't have the pleasure of watching this, guess it's not worth it?

Didn't think I could get much less enthused about Leinster rugby but there you go.

its_phil

Buer wrote: »

You'd have to say that Scarlets are looking a tempting outside bet to take 5th spot from us at this point. We're 8 points clear of them but they have two solid shots at BP wins (Blues at home and Treviso away). If they only get one BP win and 9 points, we need to win in Edinburgh to be sure...lose by more than 7 and we finish 6th.

Hopefully they only squeak a win at home tomorrow leaving them a mountain to climb in terms of points difference. But they'll go out and throw the ball around in Italy and are well capable of putting up a score there.

If they get the two BP wins, we need to win in Edinburgh. Don't think we will.

Worth remembering that Scarlets are an awful team away from home. Just about beat Zebre with last kick of game and picked up a win at Dragons but it was in a neutral venue, the Millenium.

vienne86

molloyjh wrote: »

You've said before that MOC is looking for Leinster to play what's in front of them more and is asking the half-backs to make the decisions on what to play and when rather than having a more traditionally structured plan. At this stage I don't care what game plan we implement as it seems to me that we are asking our half-backs to do too much. They aren't the guys to implement that style of game. I'd wonder can anyone tbh. Reduce the number of decisions they need to make by having a more rigid game plan. I actually don't care what the plan is at this stage so long as we have guys who all know exactly what they are supposed to be doing and are all on the same page. If we at least have that then we can build from there and develop the game plan from there.

.....guys who all know exactly what they are supposed to be doing....Exactly what we don't have right now, and what we badly badly need.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But that's not really an answer to the question, which is really my point.

A more rigid game plan does NOT reduce the reliance on the half backs. That's incredibly wide of the mark. Ireland are entirely reliant on Sexton/Murray while Glasgow are not reliant on their half backs nearly as much. I think these criticisms are just so wildly misplaced. Our half backs are a complete necessity unfortunately, and we need an overhaul in that department, the only other problem we're really repeatedly having is inconsistency in the set piece, eliminate those and we can move on to criticising other things, but first we need new half backs.

Im not talking about reducing the reliance on the half backs, I'm talking about making their life easier by better ensuring they and everyone around them are on the same page. Instead the onus seems to be more on them to do it themselves on the fly which just heals the pressure on them. Like a lot of things we seem to put pressure on ourselves in what we do by asking ourselves more questions than we do opposition sides.

I agree we need new half backs too but we should still be able to make better use of the ones we have.