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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

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    #2792
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,477 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    total former wrote: »
    It's better to be playing well in a team that's playing badly, than playing badly in a team that's playing badly.

    agreed

    but its better again to be playing well in a team thats playing well ;)


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    #2793
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Looking at the table Leinster will probably have to win to keep their 5th place. Scarlets are four points behind but have the same number of wins.

    To finish ahead of Connacht Edinburgh will need at least two points as they share the number of wins with Connacht but have a much worse points difference and are a league point behind on the table.

    Incidentally both Connacht and Leinster have won 10 matches going into this weekend.


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    #2794
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,748 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Looking at the table Leinster will probably have to win to keep their 5th place. Scarlets are four points behind but have the same number of wins.

    To finish ahead of Connacht Edinburgh will need at least two points as they share the number of wins with Connacht but have a much worse points difference and are a league point behind on the table.

    Incidentally both Connacht and Leinster have won 10 matches going into this weekend.

    2 points will do us. But we need to go out there looking for the win obviously. I'd like to think Leinster can beat Edinburgh and prevent them getting the TBP for Connachts sake, but we were simply so bad against Treviso that I don't see it happening. I joked with you during the game when you said Munster only beat Treviso by 11 that Leinster would be lucky to score 11. I was only half serious when I said it. But if we can't do better than that at home to Treviso we're going to struggle away to Edinburgh.

    We beat them in the RDS 33-8 at the end of October but that feels like a life-time ago. Despite talk recently of the second string lads not stepping up we had almost a completely second string side out for that one and got 5 tries. It was one of our more complete performances this season, and even at that it still wasn't great. We're nowhere near replicating anything like that now though.


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    #2795
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    With the season away from us I honestly thought that against Treviso at home we would go at them and try and open things up. The weather put a dampener on that but truth be told, there was no intensity at all. We were happy to play out the game and it was a performance that further proved how switched off this Leinster side is.

    I think we have the capacity to win against Edinburgh but we will have to show up to do so. It would be good to end the season with a decent team performance but I really worry about what's going on with the set-up.

    O'Connor again mentioned that a number of "blokes" would be away at the start of next season but Leinster are going to start losing fewer and fewer players to the international set up if things progress as they are. It's hard to make a solid stake for a Jersey when performances are so bloody disjointed.


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    #2796
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    tbh that treviso game was a dead rubber. they were never going to beat us especially after we scored so early.

    just guys going through the motions really.


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    #2797
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    tbh that treviso game was a dead rubber. they were never going to beat us especially after we scored so early.

    just guys going through the motions really.

    It wasn't a dead rubber, although it felt like it at the ground! Treviso had Europe to play for and did try but their kicking game was appalling.


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    #2798
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    It wouldn't surprise me if Munster are interested in Macken as a squad player tbh. It would make more sense than signing Jordan Coghlan anyway!

    Don't think he's good enough; maybe as a backup 13 but hopefully Bohane will be back next season or we could give some gametime to Goggin.


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    #2799
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    It wasn't a dead rubber, although it felt like it at the ground! Treviso had Europe to play for and did try but their kicking game was appalling.

    It was effectively a dead rubber as Treviso weren't going to beat us.


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    #2800
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    It wasn't a dead rubber, although it felt like it at the ground! Treviso had Europe to play for and did try but their kicking game was appalling.

    I think he meant after Leinster's early score. Certainly going into the game a victory was a necessity.


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    #2801
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    It was effectively a dead rubber as Treviso weren't going to beat us.

    Ah come on, Leinster used to be pretty bloody ruthless regardless of what we needed from the fixture. With the quality we had on the pitch, I don't think the team should be anything at all happy with the performance.


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    #2802
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    I'm sure they're not happy but with the team they had out all they had to do was show up and they'd win.

    Then when you take into account the weather it bacame a bit of a dead rubber.


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    #2803
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,748 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    I'm sure they're not happy but with the team they had out all they had to do was show up and they'd win.

    Then when you take into account the weather it bacame a bit of a dead rubber.

    A TBP could have all but ensured 5th place. We now need to pick up at least 2 points in Edinburgh with away form that is utterly dreadful and after struggling to beat Treviso at home. If we only manage a LBP on Saturday (quite possible at this stage) then we could well drop down to 6th.

    There was no way this should ever have been seen as a dead rubber. It was a very real opportunity to solidify our league position, end the home season on a high, right a few wrongs, ease the pressure ahead of next week and send off a couple of Leinster legends in the manner they deserved. Jesus even a bit of pride would have been nice.

    Yeah the weather made that more difficult, but the way that game played out in the end was a shambles. I know STHs who hadn't renewed and after that showing have decided not to. And could you blame them?


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    #2804
    dregin
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭dregin


    https://twitter.com/lukefitz11/status/598226032970375169

    *ahem*


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    #2805
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    Off the Ball had Graham Hunter on talking about Guardiola and a lot of what he was saying was eerily similar to what's being said about MOC.

    Edit: Hunter was talking about the criticisms of Guardiola, not criticising him directly.

    (I don't know enough about soccer to comment on the accuracy of it.)


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    #2806
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    molloyjh wrote: »
    A TBP could have all but ensured 5th place. We now need to pick up at least 2 points in Edinburgh with away form that is utterly dreadful and after struggling to beat Treviso at home. If we only manage a LBP on Saturday (quite possible at this stage) then we could well drop down to 6th.

    There was no way this should ever have been seen as a dead rubber. It was a very real opportunity to solidify our league position, end the home season on a high, right a few wrongs, ease the pressure ahead of next week and send off a couple of Leinster legends in the manner they deserved. Jesus even a bit of pride would have been nice.

    Yeah the weather made that more difficult, but the way that game played out in the end was a shambles. I know STHs who hadn't renewed and after that showing have decided not to. And could you blame them?

    We can dress it up however we want but for the guys involved there was nothing at stake. They have liked to have played better and all that but they knew they were never going to lose and they didn't.


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    #2807
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,748 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    dregin wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/lukefitz11/status/598226032970375169

    *ahem*

    Didn't Bayern win the Bundesliga this season? I don't watch soccer so can't comment on how they've been playing or even what exactly he's being criticised for but are they really comparable to Leinster at the moment?


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    #2808
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,477 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Didn't Bayern win the Bundesliga this season? I don't watch soccer so can't comment on how they've been playing or even what exactly he's being criticised for but are they really comparable to Leinster at the moment?

    basically the crux is, after doing the treble in 2012-13... the only way is down

    even after loosing the european semi to the best club in it, and the fact their pissing the bundesliga.... hes still under pressure


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    #2809
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,748 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    We can dress it up however we want but for the guys involved there was nothing at stake. They have liked to have played better and all that but they knew they were never going to lose and they didn't.

    Well if that really was the attitude then I'd be even more annoyed tbh. If they just wanted to get in and out like that then what the hell were the fans there for? If they don't really want to make the effort then why the hell should we?


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    #2810
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,748 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    basically the crux is, after doing the treble in 2012-13... the only way is down

    even after loosing the european semi to the best club in it, and the fact their pissing the bundesliga.... hes still under pressure

    Are they playing decent football or crap football? And what's their record under him over the last couple of years?


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    #2811
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,477 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Are they playing decent football or crap football? And what's their record under him over the last couple of years?

    I'm not offering an opinion either way, just saying that even great managers can be put under pressure with unrealistic expectations (in bayrens case a european cup every year)


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    #2812
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    I think the style of football Bayern are playing is irrelevant.

    It is interesting that a senior player has made a comment like this completely off his own bat. So maybe, just maybe, things aren't as sh1tty in the camp as some would paint them.

    The old Rob Kearney - Declan Kidney defence doesn't hold here.


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    #2813
    case885
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭case885


    total former wrote:
    It is interesting that a senior player has made a comment like this completely off his own bat. So maybe, just maybe, things aren't as sh1tty in the camp as some would paint them.

    I thought it was said the player's get on very well with MOC?


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    #2814
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,748 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    total former wrote: »
    I think the style of football Bayern are playing is irrelevant.

    It is interesting that a senior player has made a comment like this completely off his own bat. So maybe, just maybe, things aren't as sh1tty in the camp as some would paint them.

    The old Rob Kearney - Declan Kidney defence doesn't hold here.

    Well the football they are playing is relevant in how accurate comparisons are. They've done well in the league but gone out of Europe at the knock-outs to the best side in Europe. That's exactly like last season for us.

    As for the players opinions I am coming around to the idea that they genuinely like and respect MOC. That doesn't change a whole lot though in fairness.


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    #2815
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    case885 wrote: »
    I thought it was said the player's get on very well with MOC?

    The players have been very positive about him but it's always dismissed with the "what else are they going to say" routine, so it's interesting to see a different angle on it.


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    #2816
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    molloyjh wrote: »
    As for the players opinions I am coming around to the idea that they genuinely like and respect MOC. That doesn't change a whole lot though in fairness.

    Would it not make a difference if they didn't like and respect MOC?


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    #2817
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    case885 wrote: »
    I thought it was said the player's get on very well with MOC?

    The lads could be having legendary craic but it isn't why I watch Leinster in fairness

    Edit: beat me to it molloy


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    #2818
    SaveOurLyric
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭SaveOurLyric


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Didn't Bayern win the Bundesliga this season? I don't watch soccer so can't comment on how they've been playing or even what exactly he's being criticised for but are they really comparable to Leinster at the moment?

    I think thats his point. At least they won something. Leinster win nada, so how under pressure is their coach ?


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    #2819
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    SaveOurLyric wrote: »
    I think thats his point. At least they won something. Leinster win nada, so how under pressure is their coach ?

    Make no mistake, Fitzgerald's point is that Guardiola is a good coach who is under pressure despite issues outside his control, and he is drawing a similarity to MOC, and he's is using it as an example of why top level sport is "ridiculous".


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    #2820
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,748 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Would it not make a difference if they didn't like and respect MOC?

    Because it hasn't made the rugby any better or the results. My issue isn't with MOC as a person, or even with how good, bad or indifferent he has them on the training paddock.

    Also sometimes when you like a person it can be hard to see the wood from the trees. And while it may be true that they look great in training and MOC comes across as a technically excellent rugby man it isn't happening where it matters.


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    #2821
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Well the football they are playing is relevant in how accurate comparisons are. They've done well in the league but gone out of Europe at the knock-outs to the best side in Europe. That's exactly like last season for us.

    As for the players opinions I am coming around to the idea that they genuinely like and respect MOC. That doesn't change a whole lot though in fairness.

    They wouldn't respect him if they didn't think he was a good coach.

    It doesn't put any more points on the league table but it's interesting nonetheless that this is the second senior player in three days to contradict boards.ie wisdom that it's all on the coach (Without being cornered at some press conference).


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