Rio 2016 Marathon Qualification, whos trying?

dublin runner

walshb wrote: »

One can apply the whole athletics vs. other sports to any place on earth. There are far more financially appealing sports to go for.

Yes but I would rather compare the organisations and how they treat their athletes. That's getting of topic though.

demfad

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

I do think this is a good debate to have, btw and no need for folks to get upset. We need to talk about these things..

Next, of course all of us internet warriors would love to be selected for the olympics. Second, of course those selected worked their arses off and should get a chance. But we send a lot of people who don't get out of their first heat, and I do often wonder if we should better support fewer people. etc

Your argument assumes that the only goal of national and individual participation in the Olympics and Olympic events is to try and win or medal.

Id disagree with that.

The games were founded by Pierre de Coubertin, who took a keen interest in
the English education system which included sport in the school curriculum unheard of in his own country France.

He gave the Games an international and modern dimension and
saw them as part of a wider strategy of education through sport.

The Games has evolved along with society being influenced by society and also making its own mark on society.

The creed is still:

"The important thing in life is not the triumph, but the fight; the essential thing is not to have won, but to have fought well."

The competitive element is not about only winning, or only winning at all costs. Its about sending your nations fastest, strongest and fittest to compete fairly, respectfully with other nations fastest, strongest and fittest.

But at its heart the Olympics is about influencing the health of young people and old, using sport as education about making nations care about the health of its citizens.

Not partcipating because you have no chance of winning flies in the face of that.

Chivito550

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

Slight tangent, but if you're in Athlone at the national indoors, I think we already have you

What I really want is the next Cian Healy to pick T&F and not Rugby [he still has two schools records I believe, for shot and hammer, correct me if wrong]. Or someone who plays GAA and has everything needed to be a long distance runner to get support and give it a real go. We need world class athletes to pick our sport and not others - that's the challenge if we want to win medals and grow the sport. Maybe it's an impossible challenge..

That is done by supporting those folks to a decent level, which by listing to JTG and following a number of serious folks on twitter, the AAI dont do terribly well..

And making Olympic and World qualification harder than it needs is the way to go about attracting people to a sport already without financial incentives?

Glad you are not working for AAI is all I can say.

PVincent

For what it is worth ...Kids are inspired by the adult runners . I see first hand the impact that one of our girls has on the kids in our club when she is able to call down and present medals , or have a few selfies with the kids , or even do some training with them . And she is only a National Medallist . I mean only in the sense of the argument. Can you imagine the inspiration if she qualifies for the Olympics in Rio ( even if it is part of the Relay Team ) . It wont just be the kids in the club she inspires to train harder .

Send as many as we can to the Olympics or Championships . That inspiration will filter down . It is Athletics only chance to inspire the next generation .

Chivito550

PVincent wrote: »

For what it is worth ...Kids are inspired by the adult runners . I see first hand the impact that one of our girls has on the kids in our club when she is able to call down and present medals , or have a few selfies with the kids , or even do some training with them . And she is only a National Medallist . I mean only in the sense of the argument. Can you imagine the inspiration if she qualifies for the Olympics in Rio ( even if it is part of the Relay Team ) . It wont just be the kids in the club she inspires to train harder .

Send as many as we can to the Olympics or Championships . That inspiration will filter down . It is Athletics only chance to inspire the next generation .

+1 Super post.

I have seen this in my club also. A national medallist and the kids absolutely love her.

ultrapercy

Chivito550 wrote: »

+1 Super post.

I have seen this in my club also. A national medallist and the kids absolutely love her.

I don't even understand how this is a discussion. If an athlete meets qualification criteria that athlete qualifies by right. This would not be a debate in any other sport. The Irish soccer team will likely finish third in their group (if they continue to be very lucky) proceed to a playoff with some lowly ranked nation that they will probably beat by a goal and thus qualify for the 24 team finals. That in my book is a low standard to achieve for qualification to a major championship but you dare not tell that to a soccer fan. Even in those circumstances very few people would suggest that the team should be prevented from competing by their own governing body or have to meet some more stringent criteria set by that body. As you have already said Chivito550 these arguments are really only put forward by non athletics people and mostly by bar stool sports fans who think finishing outside the world top 10 is failure but that a lienster hurling medal is legendary.

walshb

I don't think you can compare T&F accurately with other sports that are a lot more subjective, like say boxing or soccer or tennis or golf. T&F have markers and precise measurements that can assess athletes. Some athletes being sent to major events have PBs that we know won't stand a chance to progress them. And god forbid they progress a lot and they are called cheats. I still agree with the overall view that if the standard is met and the country selects you then go. Otherwise we wouldn't have races or events. We are up against some serious world powers in all sports, and we do fantastic in many sports based off our population.

Chivito550

ultrapercy wrote: »

I don't even understand how this is a discussion. If an athlete meets qualification criteria that athlete qualifies by right. This would not be a debate in any other sport. The Irish soccer team will likely finish third in their group (if they continue to be very lucky) proceed to a playoff with some lowly ranked nation that they will probably beat by a goal and thus qualify for the 24 team finals. That in my book is a low standard to achieve for qualification to a major championship but you dare not tell that to a soccer fan. Even in those circumstances very few people would suggest that the team should be prevented from competing by their own governing body or have to meet some more stringent criteria set by that body. As you have already said Chivito550 these arguments are really only put forward by non athletics people and mostly by bar stool sports fans who think finishing outside the world top 10 is failure but that a lienster hurling medal is legendary.

Great comparison. 24 spots available for 51 countries to fight for, with about 10-12 of those countries being no-hopers like San Marino and Andorra. Qualifying for this is no great accomplishment. It would be expected. But the people who believe this to be a great achievement are the same muppets who believe the Olympics is no place for Brian Gregan. Unbelievable!

amcgee

average_runner wrote: »

I do agree with you, if they aren't going to be competitive then they shouldn't be going. By coming 66th, 68th, its not promoting the sport in Ireland or doing it any good, as no one is paying attention. Better off investing in the facilities instead.

JTG latest podcast addresses the whole funding thing and how the walkers have developed a professional setup and how the other events are in total disarray.

How are we ever going to compete if we dont send someone to run in the race. Most people outside africa cant really compete in the marathon, but thats just now, that can change over time. and beside Ireland have a proud history in long distance running and we should not throw that away

Krusty_Clown

ultrapercy wrote: »

Even in those circumstances very few people would suggest that the team should be prevented from competing by their own governing body or have to meet some more stringent criteria set by that body. As you have already said Chivito550 these arguments are really only put

Imagine the situation when you tried to explain to the Irish soccer team that they have to pay their own way for the qualification process? That they have to book and pay for their own flights to Rotterdam or Berlin. Pay for their own accommodation. Pay for anyone they want to bring with them. Sort out their own food and drinks, and lordy forbid - if they get injured, pay for their own rehabilitation?!

What's not being supplied is any justification for not sending a full repertoire. Is it a cost saving exercise? A face-saving exercise when they don't take home the gold medal?

menoscemo

Just getting back to the OP

So depending on QTs; in the mens we have:
Pollock
Fagan
Kenneally
Clohissey
Ciobanu
Hehir
Fraser
Seaward

In the Women's:
Britton
McCambridge
Lizzie Lee
Sanchez
Sinead Diver???

Anyone else?

tang1

Cragg?
I've asked this before to a muted response, Sean Connolly, he looked very promising a few years back and just vanished, if theres some issue i apologise for asking.

Whats Ava Hutchinson at this weather anybody know, Linda Byrne likewise?

rom

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Imagine the situation when you tried to explain to the Irish soccer team that they have to pay their own way for the qualification process? That they have to book and pay for their own flights to Rotterdam or Berlin. Pay for their own accommodation. Pay for anyone they want to bring with them. Sort out their own food and drinks, and lordy forbid - if they get injured, pay for their own rehabilitation?!

What's not being supplied is any justification for not sending a full repertoire. Is it a cost saving exercise? A face-saving exercise when they don't take home the gold medal?

If the have a good standard marathon mission will cover it if they make their own way to Dublin.

menoscemo

menoscemo wrote: »

Ah ok, I wonder will she run the Marathon at the Worlds though?
In saying that, probably not the best place to try to get an Olympic QT...

So Fionnuala is targetting an Autumn Marathon as a qualifier for Rio. She doesn't say which one though. Unlikely to be Dublin I guess, hopefully she makes it easy on herself and picks a fast one like Berlin or Frankfurt

http://jumping-the-gun.com/?p=5083

tang1

Any word on a confirmed qualifying time, sure Mick Clohissy isn't going to Rotterdam Sunday running blind regarding a time?

HelenAnne

tang1 wrote: »

Any word on a confirmed qualifying time, sure Mick Clohissy isn't going to Rotterdam Sunday running blind regarding a time?

2.18 I think

Itziger

2:18? Jeez, sounds on the slow side.

HelenAnne

Itziger wrote: »

2:18? Jeez, sounds on the slow side.

maybe I'm wrong. thought I read it somewhere. don't know, so!

ger664

Itziger wrote: »

2:18? Jeez, sounds on the slow side.

Agree this wont get you on the plane as I think more the 3 will get under it. 2:15 should get your butt on the plane

tang1

As per this months edition of Irish Runner, 2.18 is indeed the male qualifying time for Rio and 2.44 for women. Qualifying for Worlds later this year is 2.15.30. Sean Hehir running Rotterdam Sunday to according to the report.

dublin runner

tang1 wrote: »

As per this months edition of Irish Runner, 2.18 is indeed the male qualifying time for Rio and 2.44 for women. Qualifying for Worlds later this year is 2.15.30. Sean Hehir running Rotterdam Sunday to according to the report.

Didn't realise he is running Rotterdam. He ran it last year so that will stand to him. Will be very interesting to see how himself and Clohisey get on. I think that to get on the Irish team you will need a time closer to 2.15.

NetwerkErrer

dublin runner wrote: »

Didn't realise he is running Rotterdam. He ran it last year so that will stand to him. Will be very interesting to see how himself and Clohisey get on. I think that to get on the Irish team you will need a time closer to 2.15.

Hehir hasn't being racing much of late either I think which is unusual for him. Looks like a different approach from him and Hooper, should be interesting. After seeing his performance on that course in Zurich last year, he could be a serious contender for a spot on the plane.

tang1

dublin runner wrote: »

Didn't realise he is running Rotterdam. He ran it last year so that will stand to him. Will be very interesting to see how himself and Clohisey get on. I think that to get on the Irish team you will need a time closer to 2.15.

Thats per Feidhlim Kelly in this months Irish Runner, no way 2.18 will suffice to get you a ticket to Rio, as you said 2.15 or close to it is the goal i'd say.

dublin runner

tang1 wrote: »

Thats per Feidhlim Kelly in this months Irish Runner, no way 2.18 will suffice to get you a ticket to Rio, as you said 2.15 or close to it is the goal i'd say.

It'd be great to see a mild day on Sunday and see the lads lay down a big marker for the rest. Particularly interested to see how Mick C runs. 2.16 high I am going for.

RayCun

I presume they'll all be running autumn marathons too

ultrapercy

Gerry Thornton also running Rotterdam on Sunday and if on his best form capable of a really fast time. Mick C ran 49.xx in Craughwell solo and I believe he was wrecked after a monster training block. If he has recovered he could post a very quick time but that is a big if. Sean H is always solid and may be the safest bet for first Irish finisher with his experience from last year standing to him And his proven ability to withstand the rigors of hard marathon training.

ThebitterLemon

ultrapercy wrote: »

Gerry Thornton also running Rotterdam on Sunday and if on his best form capable of a really fast time. Mick C ran 49.xx in Craughwell solo and I believe he was wrecked after a monster training block. If he has recovered he could post a very quick time but that is a big if. Sean H is always solid and may be the safest bet for first Irish finisher with his experience from last year standing to him And his proven ability to withstand the rigors of hard marathon training.

If that's Gary Thornton from Galway, I really hope he blasts out a great race, the mans a gent and I believe he ran a 2.19 and 2.17 trying to qualify for London. If he's fit he's got a great chance. Haven't seen him much around the streets in the last few weeks though.

TbL

overpronator

Would Nicola Duncan and Sarah Mulligan be contenders on the womens side of things?

menoscemo

overpronator wrote: »

Would Nicola Duncan and Sarah Mulligan be contenders on the womens side of things?

I forgot about Nicola Duncan. She would be our second fastest woman, I would assume, if she is fit.
Sarah Mulligan is in good form and ran well at the 10 mile on Monday, not sure if she is going for it though?

Duanington

menoscemo wrote: »

Sarah Mulligan is in good form and ran well at the 10 mile on Monday, not sure if she is going for it though?

Lots of shouts of "stick to your plan Sarah...keep it nice and steady" from the Raheny crowd during the 10 miler on Monday, sounded like a training run to me!

demfad

menoscemo wrote: »

I forgot about Nicola Duncan. She would be our second fastest woman, I would assume, if she is fit.
Sarah Mulligan is in good form and ran well at the 10 mile on Monday, not sure if she is going for it though?

If all contenders are fit I'd put her 3rd fastest behind Britton and McCambridge.
McCambridge's 2:34 performance in Dublin last year was probably worth a 2:31.

menoscemo

demfad wrote: »

If all contenders are fit I'd put her 3rd fastest behind Britton and McCambridge.
McCambridge's 2:34 performance in Dublin last year was probably worth a 2:31.

Yeah, you are probably right on the Dublin time, but it looked like Nicola was on a real upward surge when she posted her 2:33 and her 1;12 half probably showed potential to go a little faster (think she got injured between the two races and missed some training).

Anyway if all 3 are fit and going well, we should have a pretty strong team.

ultrapercy

Also Sinead Diver of Mayo AC posted 2.34 in the Melbourne marathon and is returning from injury. She will also be a contender

demfad

menoscemo wrote: »

Yeah, you are probably right on the Dublin time, but it looked like Nicola was on a real upward surge when she posted her 2:33 and her 1;12 half probably showed potential to go a little faster (think she got injured between the two races and missed some training).

Anyway if all 3 are fit and going well, we should have a pretty strong team.

Yes, she was on an upward curve indeed. And the potential is there, given that she has run her times as a relative newcomer and almost all all through endurance gains (vast majority of her races are XC, 10k, HM, M.).

She looks like she could potentially run sub 2:30 at some point.

hillsiderunner

menoscemo wrote: »

I forgot about Nicola Duncan. She would be our second fastest woman, I would assume, if she is fit.
Sarah Mulligan is in good form and ran well at the 10 mile on Monday, not sure if she is going for it though?

Nicola D has been injured a lot since summer . Could always hope but at the moment I think it's not definite she will be trying for it I think (don't know her personally, just from what I hear round here).

PVincent

Sarah Mulligan is targeting a marathon in Germany according to an article I read today ( Lindie in Evening Herald. )

rom

2:44 that's really soft compared to an already soft time!!! Why ?

NetwerkErrer

rom wrote: »

2:44 that's really soft compared to an already soft time!!! Why ?

Strange alright. Going to be more like sub-2.35 to get onto the plane.

menoscemo

rom wrote: »

2:44 that's really soft compared to an already soft time!!! Why ?

They don't really have to put limits on Marathon numbers, given that there are no heats and it is run on the roads. If every country entered 3 there would be no problems.
In the bigger countries or those with good marathon pedigrees, the actual QT will be much lower anyway. No harm if Iceland manage to get in a runner or two qualified is it?

rom

menoscemo wrote: »

They don't really have to put limits on Marathon numbers, given that there are no heats and it is run on the roads. If every country entered 3 there would be no problems.
In the bigger countries or those with good marathon pedigrees, the actual QT will be much lower anyway. No harm if Iceland manage to get in a runner or two qualified is it?

I know what your saying but as long as only the fit pending medical athletes go th . I am OK with that if its purely based on time or whatever criteria up front. Tbh though making the standard that poor serves no benefit if they were say 2:38 ballpark and just looking to compete.

johnruns

Id say the soft times are to draw in the serious runners who know they are well capable of the qualification time and hopefully with so many going for it it will push the actual times closer to sub 2 15 and sub 2 35

RayCun

Jumping the Gun report

Mick Clohisey 2:17:42, 2:17:44 for Thomas Frazer, 2:18:21 for Gary Thornton, 2:19:23 for Sean Hehir

average_runner

RayCun wrote: »

Jumping the Gun report

Think those times will be beaten anyhow.

dublin runner

average_runner wrote: »

Think those times will be beaten anyhow.

Yeah, they will. Fagan, Pollock and Kenneally will go faster. It will be interesting to see if and when the lads today run again. Frazer and Clohissey have now gotten the qualifying time and in many ways have laid down a marker. Think the minimum time to qualify for Ireland will be around the high 2.16 mark.

eldiva

The lads got the time today so that puts the pressure on the other three. Clohisey is rumoured to be doing Berlin later this year

average_runner

dublin runner wrote: »

Yeah, they will. Fagan, Pollock and Kenneally will go faster. It will be interesting to see if and when the lads today run again. Frazer and Clohissey have now gotten the qualifying time and in many ways have laid down a marker. Think the minimum time to qualify for Ireland will be around the high 2.16 mark.

Even if Fagan goes faster they might not picking him, any criteria given yet?

dublin runner

average_runner wrote: »

Even if Fagan goes faster they might not picking him, any criteria given yet?

Think they'd have to select him to be honest. He may well be our fastest qualifier (2.12-2.15?).

average_runner

dublin runner wrote: »

Think they'd have to select him to be honest. He may well be our fastest qualifier (2.12-2.15?).

Well they did take his membership fee.
Sometimes their decisions are very unclear, look at the woman's selection min the last Olympics.

NetwerkErrer

Fagan running Zurich this weekend I hear. Supposedly got refused entry to Rotterdam.

overpronator

NetwerkErrer wrote: »

Fagan running Zurich this weekend I hear. Supposedly got refused entry to Rotterdam.

I assume that's entry as an elite rather than generally? Is it for the obvious reason?