Water Chemistry

RasTa

I think this is the next step. Anyone doing this at the moment?

Is it really as simple as below?

Add 1tsp of calcium chloride per 5 gallons of water
-Add 2% acidulated malt to my grain bill (typically between 3 and 5 ounces for a 5 gallon batch.

Roasty beers (stouts, porters), I skip the acidulated malt.
Hoppy syles (APA, IPA, IIPA), I also add 1tsp of gypsum
Soft water beers (Czech Pils), I cut the calcium chloride down to 1/2tsp
British styles, I double the calcum chloride, and add 1tsp of gypsum.

Dublin City Council water is hard if I remember correctly

neoanto

Those additions are for RO (reverse osmosis) water if i remember where it came from correctly.
I think it was from a post by AJ Lange, who is a water chemistry expert.
So, if you have RO water as a basis you can use those additions.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

slayerking

They are pretty decent rules of thumb actually for brewers that are using soft water or softened water. My brewing water is sourced from a private well, I've no idea what its mineral composition is other than its pretty hard (its too expensive to get tested in a lab).
For most beers, I pre-boil most/all of the water or dilute with soft/distilled water to soften it a bit and I'd loosely follow similar guidelines to above then depending on what I'm brewing.
I always add a small bit of acid malt to the grist when brewing pale beers so I can hit my desired mash pH.

I've found nailing the mash pH has a significant affect on efficiency and the malt flavor of the beer.

to low pH = bad efficiency, to high pH = harsh grainy flavours/astringency

Hingo

;)One can always cheat

slayerking

Hingo wrote: »

;)One can always cheat

I've actually use that too! Reviews of it are divided though, some say it adds to much sodium to your mash which could result in salty tasting beer. I'm reluctant to use a lot of it as a result.

How have you found it? Does it help hit the numbers?

RasTa

Yeah I'm moving to 12L brews for awhile so the plan was to boil up the water the night before and copy the steps I listed.

Hingo

slayerking wrote: »

I've actually use that too! Reviews of it are divided though, some say it adds to much sodium to your mash which could result in salty tasting beer. I'm reluctant to use a lot of it as a result.

How have you found it? Does it help hit the numbers?

Pretty much, only used it about 3 times and no bad results. Second brew I did scored 41 in NHC comp so I'm sold! Apparently If your water is very hard you'll benefit from it a lot more, mines pretty decent (south Dublin) so I only use about half the recommended dose.

Carawaystick

The water in Pilzen has almost no dry residue iirc, so I don't know why you'ld add anything to try make pils

slayerking

Carawaystick wrote: »

The water in Pilzen has almost no dry residue iirc, so I don't know why you'ld add anything to try make pils

Calcium chloride lowers pH so it's probably to ensure you hit the mash pH right I'd guess.

Pilsen water and pale lager malts would be difficult to hit a mash pH of 5.1 - 5.5 unless you do an acid rest. Most home brewers don't the ability to do anything like this so an addition to the mash water is easier.

loyatemu

RasTa wrote: »

Dublin City Council water is hard if I remember correctly

It's not.

oblivious

Hingo wrote: »

;)One can always cheat

Its a a big con, the buffer only works with pure water that was results ( I will find then) showing the Ph 5.2 has no effect up the mash .The grain its self have much stronger buffering power.

oblivious

RasTa wrote: »

I think this is the next step. Anyone doing this at the moment?

Is it really as simple as below?

It can be, but not as they show

RasTa wrote: »

Dublin City Council water is hard if I remember correctly

Its very variable across they city an is depend on where your source is coming from. I am in west Dublin on the leixlip water. Liffey water in Wicklow is soft, but as it flows though Kildare it becomes hard. So my water is hard and hardness is a seasonal venerable dependent on how much water is flow (it maybe be inversely related to flow).

I use and find Brun water (excel sheet) very useful. it a get excel sheet that allow you to accurately adjust your water (as long as you know its original composition)

https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Also get a good (mg) digital scales for accurate measurement of salts

RasTa

Cheers for the response, I have the water profile and am using EZwatercalculator.

http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/

Profile is

Calcium: 20.00 ppm
Sulfate: 35.00 ppm
Magnesium: 1.50 ppm
Chloride: 25.00 ppm
Sodium: 12.00 ppm
Bicarbonate: 32.00 ppm
PH: 6.80

Although I'm not exactly sure how to use it

oblivious

Is that profile yours or one you want to replicate ?

Calcium: is a little low for yeast flocculation, but not a biggie
Bicarbonate looks god for IPA and pale ales, but you shouldn't have an issue with stouts either.
Sulfate could be higher to make hop pop more

RasTa

oblivious wrote: »

Is that profile yours or one you want to replicate ?

Calcium: is a little low for yeast flocculation, but not a biggie
Bicarbonate looks god for IPA and pale ales, but you shouldn't have an issue with stouts either.
Sulfate could be higher to make hop pop more

No that's my profile. Is there a stock profile for styles, ipa and stouts etc?

oblivious

RasTa wrote: »

No that's my profile. Is there a stock profile for styles, ipa and stouts etc?

My stock water profile for hoppy beers is below. For dark beer such as porter I adjust the calcium to at around 70ppm for good yeast health with some gypsum. Which will also raise the sulphate level too . I have highish bicarbonate so there no need for me to adjust it.

Calcium 120
Sulfate (SO4) 160
Bicarbonate (HCO3) 20-50 (depending on seasonal changes and adjusted with CRS soultion http://www.brupaks.com/brewing-aids.htm)

Magnesium (Mg) 7.0
Sodium (Na) 5.0
Chloride (Cl) 15.0


The brun water has a number of inbuilt water profile that can used. Pale ale (Burton) ,Dublin and a number of German and Belgian profiles too.

Hingo

oblivious wrote: »

Its a a big con,

RasTa

Do you add acid malt to your grain bill?

I'm making an order soon so is

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/calcium-sulphate-gypsum-100g-p-1420.html

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/calcium-chloride-flakes-100g-p-1419.html

What I need to be ordering?

I hated science in school

oblivious

RasTa wrote: »

Do you add acid malt to your grain bill?

I add some CRS to reduce carbonate. I generally do not add acid malt as calcium sulphate will reduce the ph of the mash as well

RasTa wrote: »

I'm making an order soon so is

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/calcium-sulphate-gypsum-100g-p-1420.html

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/calcium-chloride-flakes-100g-p-1419.html

What I need to be ordering?

Calcium sulphate and magnesium sulphate are the two classic burtonising salt.

Calcium chloride is generally used to increase calcium with out the addition of sulphate. But it will add chloride to you brew

RasTa

oblivious wrote: »

I add some CRS to reduce carbonate. I generally do not add acid malt as calcium sulphate will reduce the ph of the mash as well



Calcium sulphate and magnesium sulphate are the two classic burtonising salt.

Calcium chloride is generally used to increase calcium with out the addition of sulphate. But it will add chloride to you brew

So just order sulphate based on the readings I listed of my water profile?

I'm just doing this for IPA's at the start.

What about using this

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/burton-water-crystals-100g-p-1410.html

Would West Coast US IPA's be looking to mimic Burton's profile

Someone should set up for a class for this, be a handy earner

RasTa

Hmmm I'm guessing you're in D15 from a recent post Oblivion. Let me know if I can have a nose over your shoulder the next time you're doing a brew

oblivious

RasTa wrote: »

Hmmm I'm guessing you're in D15 from a recent post Oblivion. Let me know if I can have a nose over your shoulder the next time you're doing a brew

I am sure we can arrange something

DebeliDule

I am new to brewing and looking for a source of water to use for my small 5-8 litre batches.

I am fairly new to Ireland as well so I'm surprised that you can't really buy distilled water here. (I know you can buy 6 drops for 1000 euros in pharmacies)

So lets say you're brewing a Pilsner, what water do you use to build pilsner water profile?

PS. I know I could buy RO filtration system and build my water profiles from that but I can't justify the cost of such system at the moment.

Thanks,

DebeliDule

BeerNut

Welcome to the forum DebeliDule. I see you've started a separate thread for this so I'll close this old one.