Behavourist Recommendations please

Inexile

Can any one recommend a good behaviourist for the North Cork Area please?

DerTierarzt

Inexile wrote: »

Can any one recommend a good behaviourist for the North Cork Area please?

Orla Doherty is the only licenced and registered clinical behaviourist in Ireland currently. She consults out of Gilabbey in Cork on Thursdays, please see link here.

Knine

No you are wrong. I'd say you need to update your sources.

DBB

Orla Doherty is not a certified clinical behaviourist. She's a vet with a Master's in behaviour, but she is not certified, accredited nor registered with any recognised behavioural associations.
There is one certified clinical animal behaviourist in Ireland, and it's not Orla
There is no licensing system for behaviourists.

OP, try Creedon's Doggy Daycare in Cork... Nanci there is a certified behaviourist (not clinical, but certified all the same)

ABajaninCork

Creedon's have two branches, OP. One in Little Island. The other at the Kinsale Rd. Maybe the one at the Kinsale Rd might be better for you. Nanci is excellent at what she does.

DerTierarzt

DBB wrote: »

Orla Doherty is not a certified clinical behaviourist

Orla Doherty is a clinical behaviourist in that she is licenced to prescribe any medications/nutriceuticals that may be indicated in the treatment/management of the behavioural disorder

She's a vet with a Master's in behaviour, but she is not certified, accredited nor registered with any recognised behavioural associations.

In my opinion, the OP is better seeking advice from someone who has studied and published in the field of canine behaviour rather than from someone, who with the best of intentions, has paid a nominal fee to complete a written examination, a practical demonstration, and an interview.

There is no licensing system for behaviourists.

See here.

Orla has been seeing behavioural cases since 1995, recognised as a specialist by the general public and well regarded here also.

muddypaws

The funniest thing DerTierarzt, is that the only certified clinical animal behaviourist in Ireland is posting in this very thread.

tk123

muddypaws wrote: »

The funniest thing DerTierarzt, is that the only certified clinical animal behaviourist in Ireland is posting in this very thread.

whissssssssst!!

DerTierarzt

muddypaws wrote: »

The funniest thing DerTierarzt, is that the only certified clinical animal behaviourist in Ireland is posting in this very thread.

Not clinical, and not in Cork, just trying to help the OP here.

Incidentally, link here may help OP.

muddypaws

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Not clinical, and not in Cork, just trying to help the OP here.

Again, as recommended earlier in this thread. You are wrong. Check your sources.

andreac

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Not clinical, and not in Cork, just trying to help the OP here.

Incidentally, link here may help OP.

They never asked for clinical though?

DerTierarzt

muddypaws wrote: »

Again, as recommended earlier in this thread. You are wrong. Check your sources.

For the OP perhaps you would provide such sources?

DBB

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Orla Doherty is a clinical behaviourist in that she is licenced to prescribe any medications/nutriceuticals that may be indicated in the treatment/management of the behavioural disorder

Yes, but she's not certified by any animal behaviour associations, and as such is not accountable to any any animal behaviour associations in terms of cpd. As I said, she's a vet with a Master's.
No harm to point out that since the vast amount of research into dog behaviour has happened in the past 15 years, degrees and Master's older than that really need updating

In my opinion, the OP is better seeking advice from someone who has studied and published in the field of canine behaviour rather than from someone, who with the best of intentions, has paid a nominal fee to complete a written examination, a practical demonstration, and an interview.

APDT Ireland is a trainer's association, not a behavioural one. I'm not sure why you used a training association in this context? It's got nothing to do with this thread?

See here.

What's that got to do with my point about licensing? There is no licensing scheme for behaviourists!

Orla has been seeing behavioural cases since 1995, recognised as a specialist by the general public and well regarded here also.

Yes, nobody's denying she's been on the telly... What's that got to do with anything? Cesar Millan is on the telly too! And yes, she's a lovely lady

muddypaws

DerTierarzt wrote: »

For the OP perhaps you would provide such sources?

Its not difficult to find, and if the Certified Clinical Animal Behaviourist wishes to let it be known who they are, as they don't post using their own name on here, then that is up to them, not me. As Andreac has just pointed out, the OP didn't ask for a clinical behaviourist, and there have been some recommendations made.


No idea why you've posted a link to one particular behaviour, when the OP hasn't said that is the problem they need a behaviourist for.

I am finding you really entertaining

DerTierarzt

muddypaws wrote: »

I am finding you really entertaining

Muchos gracias!

DBB

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Not clinical, and not in Cork, just trying to help the OP here.

There is one certified clinical animal behaviourist in Ireland.
It's not Orla.
The only body this side of the Atlantic to award clinical certification in animal behaviour is the Association for the Study of Animal Behaviour (ASAB), based in Nottingham University. There is a similar organisation certifying clinical behaviourists in the US.

OP, the chances are that you don't need a clinical behaviourist... The chances of having to medicate a dog for behavioural problems are pretty small, unless there is extreme anxiety or fear going on that's driving the behaviour? A normal run-of-the-mill, god-fearing behaviourist will probably do just the job. Indeed, depending on the problems you're having, it could well be that your issue is more a training problem than a behavioural one, in which case a good trainer would be fine too, and there are a few of them in the Cork area. How to know if it's a training issue or a behavioural one? Broadly speaking, training problems include lack of control, jumping up, not coming back when called, pulling on the lead, whilst behavioural problems are emotional, including aggression, anxiety, fear, phobias.
Many behavioural problems are best seen in your own home as opposed to a clinic in any case, so now you've a couple of different options to look into

DerTierarzt

DBB wrote: »

Yes, but she's not certified by any animal behaviour associations, and as such is not accountable to any any animal behaviour associations in terms of cpd. As I said, she's a vet with a Master's.

I think this is slightly unfair and disingeneous, as supported by 10 years of behaviour consultations and continued study in the field.

APDT Ireland is a trainer's association, not a behavioural one. I'm not sure why you used a training association in this context? It's got nothing to do with this thread?

A lot of behavioural problems can be addressed by ignoring the undesired behaviour and rewarding desired behaviour (e.g.: obedience training).

There is no licensing scheme for behaviourists!

Perhaps this could provide useful discussion for the varying degrees of "behaviourists" available in Ireland. Hence why I think it's important to provide sources so posters can come to their own interpretations of data rather than a subjective opinion.

DerTierarzt

DBB wrote: »

The only body this side of the Atlantic to award clinical certification in animal behaviour is the Association for the Study of Animal Behaviour (ASAB), based in Nottingham University. There is a similar organisation certifying clinical behaviourists in the US.

Are you referring to the Animal Behaviour Society's Certified Applied Animal Behaviourist qualification out of interest?

How would you delineate the behavioural options available to an owner please?

muddypaws

DerTierarzt wrote: »

I think this is slightly unfair and disingeneous, as supported by 10 years of behaviour consultations and continued study in the field.

Yet again, you have posted something, it has been shown to be incorrect, instead of accepting that, and maybe apologising for your mistake (as we all make them) you try to move the goalposts.

YOU and you alone claimed she was a certified clinical animal behaviourist, it has pointed out she is not, and nobody has been unfair to her at all, nowhere on this thread has anyone said she is not a good behaviourist. BUT she is not what you claimed her to be.

I'm not sure if you are a vet student, or are a qualified vet, given your user name. I'm thinking it is more likely that you are a student, and are full of enthusiasm for the new things you are learning, which is great. However, maybe bear in mind that a lot of other posters in this forum have qualifications and experience, you never know who you are talking to in online communities.

DBB

DerTierarzt wrote: »

I think this is slightly unfair and disingeneous, as supported by 10 years of behaviour consultations and continued study in the field.

Ah now... The whole reason why applied behaviour is in such a mess is because so many practitioners are not signed up to a professional group, and are not required to acquire cpd. Many practitioners have been practising for years... If they're not officially updating their qualifications and knowledge, then there is no quality assurance for their clients who want to know that their behaviourist has kept up to date, and is not still espousing theories which are outdated. But you know that!

A lot of behavioural problems can be addressed by ignoring the undesired behaviour and rewarding desired behaviour (e.g.: obedience training).

But that's not why you linked to the APDT Ireland website, is it?:)
Rather you linked to it to suggest that the op would be better off not seeking advice from "someone who, with the best of intentions, has paid a nominal fee to complete a written examination, a practical demonstration, and an interview". You appeared to be mistaking that the APDT is responsible for certifying behaviourists, which it quite transparently is not.
I'd love to think that your assertion that ignoring undesirable behaviours and rewarding desired behaviours was the answer to any behavioural problems, but regrettably it's not. Chances are, if ignoring unwanted/rewarding wanted works, it was a training issue to start with. Behavioural issues are emotional in origin... Ignoring and rewarding doesn't cut it when addressing emotional issues.

Perhaps this could provide useful discussion for the varying degrees of "behaviourists" available in Ireland. Hence why I think it's important to provide sources so posters can come to their own interpretations of data rather than a subjective opinion.

When trainers and behaviourists go to the trouble of getting themselves appropriately assessed and certified by a governing body, it removes subjectivity. They've proved that the know their stuff, and proved that they can apply it. Moreover, and critically, they stand to be censured if they breach Codes of Conduct... Just like a vet.
Practitioners who don't bother with certification by-pass all of the associated safeguards. That's when subjectivity starts.

Inexile

Perhaps I should have been clearer. What I was looking for was behaviourist (ADPT certified) to do a home visit as I think it would be less stressful and helpful to see the dog in its home situation. But I do thank you all for the suggestions. I think Cork City may be too far away for the location that Im thinking of (its North Cork so as close if not closer to Limerick/Tipperary than Cork City) but it may be the only or indeed the best option.

Without going into detail the problem , I believe, is a training one, there is nothing to indicate that the dog needs meds or that meds would impact in any positive way.

DerTierarzt

YOU and you alone claimed she was is a certified clinical animal behaviourist

Just to clarify, the OP asked for a behaviourist in Cork, and I provided a link for her services, expanding upon the fact that she is licenced and registered, and is a clinical behaviourist. Nowhere has that proven to be untrue. Indeed, the topic merits further discussion as to in this jurisdiction what constitutes a "behaviourist" and what options are open to the OP and by extension the general public.

I'm not sure if you are a vet student, or are a qualified vet, given your user name. I'm thinking it is more likely that you are a student, and are full of enthusiasm for the new things you are learning, which is great. However, maybe bear in mind that a lot of other posters in this forum have qualifications and experience, you never know who you are talking to in online communities.

Am I to take this as some sort of threat? This is an online forum, where opinions should be shared.

DBB

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Are you referring to the Animal Behaviour Society's Certified Applied Animal Behaviourist qualification out of interest?

That is the American equivalent to the organisation that I already posted about, based in the UK, the Association for the Study of Animal Behaviour. In the UK, there is scope for certification for applied animal behaviourists, which is a step below clinical certification.
Here's a link to ASAB's certification scheme for clinical animal behaviourists, where you can see what the minimum academic and experiential requirements are.
http://asab.nottingham.ac.uk/accred/cert.php

How would you delineate the behavioural options available to an owner please?

I've pretty much done so above

DerTierarzt

DBB wrote: »

Just like a vet.

Okay, so let's start from this point. I would put it to you that it is nothing like a veterinarian. Veterinarians are held accountable by the Veterinary Council of Ireland here, or the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons in Northern Ireland. Similarly so worldwide.

It seems to me that this is in no way the case with the field of canine behaviour, or behaviour of companion animals in its broader sense. There are quite a number of organisations that advertise themselves as "behaviourists", how is the layperson supposed to approach such disorganisation?

muddypaws

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Just to clarify, the OP asked for a behaviourist in Cork, and I provided a link for her services, expanding upon the fact that she is licenced and registered, and is a clinical behaviourist. Nowhere has that proven to be untrue. Indeed, the topic merits further discussion as to in this jurisdiction what constitutes a "behaviourist" and what options are open to the OP and by extension the general public.



Am I to take this as some sort of threat? This is an online forum, where opinions should be shared.

Seriously, a threat? Yeah you're right, opinions can be shared, <snip>

DerTierarzt

DBB wrote: »

There is one certified clinical animal behaviourist in Ireland.

DBB wrote: »

Here's a link to ASAB's certification scheme for clinical animal behaviourists, where you can see what the minimum academic and experiential requirements are.
http://asab.nottingham.ac.uk/accred/cert.php

If this is how you classify a "clinical" behaviourist, on the list they provide there is none registered in Ireland.

DBB

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Just to clarify, the OP asked for a behaviourist in Cork, and I provided a link for her services, expanding upon the fact that she is licenced and registered, and is a clinical behaviourist. Nowhere has that proven to be untrue.

DerTierarzt...
You said that Orla is the onlyclinical behaviourist in Ireland.
This is not true.
You also said that she was the only licensed behaviourist, but there is no licensing system for behaviourists.
Saying she's "registered". As a vet, yes she is. But she is not registered with any professional behavioural governing bodies.

Am I to take this as some sort of threat? This is an online forum, where opinions should be

With mod hat on now, DerTierarzt, I don't see this a threat? I read it as muddypaws simply pointing out that the posters on this forum know their stuff, a point I made to you earlier by pm. If we're going to go down the road of feeling threatened in these circumstances, then there seems no option but to close this thread.
As I'm involved in the thread, I'm going to step back now and get the other mods to give their opinion on this. I will close the thread so that they can re-open it if they feel it warranted.
Thanks,
DBB

DBB

DerTierarzt wrote: »

If this is how you classify a "clinical" behaviourist, on the list they provide there is none registered in Ireland.

Sigh.
Their website is awaiting updating, it hasn't been updated in 9 months.
Take my word for it. I would link you to another professional organisation's website which lists the practitioners with CCAB certification, just so I can prove that this mystical creature can prove she exists, but I'm pretty sure she doesn't want her identity splurged all over this forum

Cherry Blossom

DerTierarzt,

Where to start -

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Am I to take this as some sort of threat? This is an online forum, where opinions should be shared.

There is no parallel universe where what muddypaws said to you could possibly be construed as a threat, enough with the dramatics.

Secondly your posting style has an authoritative and condescending style to it, please considering adjusting this as it is being perceived as preachy and soap-boxing and you are getting other posters backs up. Not just confined to this thread but in other threads you have posted on in this forum you have back-seat moderated, please refrain from doing this.

Lastly, the reported post function is not to be abused, it is there to report posts that genuinely breach the rules, not for you to report every post that disagrees with your point of view or points out where you are wrong. If you continue to abuse the system I will have no choice but to issue you with a short ban from the forum.

I hope you will take all of this on-board.

Please do not respond to this post on thread.
Thanks,
AJ

Cherry Blossom

muddypaws wrote: »

Seriously, a threat? Yeah you're right, opinions can be shared, <snip>

muddypaws,

The snipped content here was out of line and you know it. Please don't do this again.

Cherry Blossom

For the benefit of the OP, I am re-opening this thread, lets try to avoid off-topic spiels.