Sony have banned my PSN account

Max Mafioso

Hi everyone,

This is going to be very long and possibly riddled with typos as I am using a laptop with sticky keys

So it all started on the 4th October 2014. I was playing GTA Online when, at 9:35pm I got an email so I went to check it.
The subject: Thank you for your purchase from PlayStation®Store.

The game was inFAMOUS Second Son, not the type of game I would play, I'd seen the ads for it and i had no interest in it whatsoever.

I panicked! I hadnt purchased anything and I hadnt put any funds in the PSN Wallet, 10 minutes later, the 2nd email confiming that my wallet had been topped up! I quickly did up an email to the sonyentertainment.UK@eu.sony.com and
networksupport@uk.playstation.com to explain that there had been a fraudulent purchase on my account while also removing my CC details from the system.

2 Days later I got a reply

"Thanks for your e-mail about your Sony Entertainment Network (SEN) account.
I can see from your e-mail that you'd like to report some unauthorised transactions on your SEN account. As we take the security of SEN accounts very seriously, we are unable to provide support on this matter by e-mail as we will need you to answer some security questions before we can investigate this further.
Therefore I'd be grateful if you'd contact PlayStation Support using the telephone number below.
Thank you,"


I called the next day, waiting for about 40 minutes to get through to someone, something I have now gotten used to with all the calls I have had to make, and after explaining to the person on the other end of the phone what had happened, I was asked to email Sony with my PS3 serial number, which I did.

A few days went by and I heard nothing back, I sent some emails asking for an update but always got the generic autoreply back and eventually a reply to say it was still being investigated, this was on October 14th

Finally on October 30th I got an email back from Sony

"Thanks for your recent contact with PlayStation Support.
We have investigated your case and have concluded that the purchases in question were made via the web store platform and not via a console. However, as per our Sony Entertainment Network Terms of Service we are not liable for any unauthorised activity on consumers Sony Entertainment Network accounts. Unfortunately in this case the transactions will not be refunded. We will investigate this further and take any appropriate action against any consoles linked with these transactions however we will be unable to share details of this with yourself.
I would recommend strengthening your password and enabling [Require Password at Checkout] which can be done either on your console under [PSN] > [Account Management] or on the account management area of the SEN website by clicking [Account] then [Wallet]. Please also keep your account details secure and do not share these details with anyone. This will ensure that nobody can access your account and transact without your permission.
For your reference, our Terms of Service can be found here.
I can appreciate this was not the outcome you were hoping for and I'm sorry we were unable to help further on this occasion. If you have any other questions please contact PlayStation Support using the contact details below or by replying to this e-mail.
Thanks,"


My reply to this:

"Seeing as I have no interest in the game that was purchased and that I cannot get a refund, is there any chance I could get the game removed from my account and have the value put as store credit or somthing like that so that I can purchase something I would rather be interested in please? As a good will gesture?
I would be forever grateful"


They got back to me on November 2nd and said

"Thanks for your e-mail about your Sony Entertainment Network (SEN) account.
I can see from your e-mail that you'd like a refund. Regrettably, as stated in the PlayStation Network Terms of Service, we are unable to offer a refund for purchases made on PlayStation Store unless the content is found to be defective.
For your reference, our Terms of Service can be found here.
I hope this helps, but if you have any other questions please contact PlayStation Support using the contact details below or by replying to this e-mail.
Thank you,"

I replied again with the following

"I didnt ask for a refund, I asked if it was possible to have credit of the value and I can spend it on something that I would rather play on the PS Shop. That way you dont lose the money that was taken from my account and I get something I would rather like.
Its a Win Win"


And their reply on the 4th November

"Thanks for your e-mail about your Sony Entertainment Network (SEN) account.
I can see from your e-mail that you'd like a store credit or the game removed. Regrettably, as stated in the PlayStation Network Terms of Service, we are unable to offer a refund for purchases made on PlayStation Store unless the content is found to be defective.
For your reference, our Terms of Service can be found here.
I hope this helps, but if you have any other questions please contact PlayStation Support using the contact details below or by replying to this e-mail."

So seeing as I couldnt do anything about it, I decided I would just download the game and forget about all this. So I went to download it and I could not find the game anywhere, I sent Sony another email

"My order is no longer available to download so it seems like I just gave you €39.99 for nothing.
I tried to come to a compromise but that doesnt seem to work so now I have wasted money for nothing, not just by the online purchase I never authorised but also by calling your Support line.
Please, I am begging you, either give me a refund or credit to use on the PS Store. Especially now that the game I "purchased" isnt available in the store anymore!"

They replied on the 10th November

"I can see from your e-mail that you'd like a store credit or the game removed. Regrettably, as stated in the PlayStation Network Terms of Service, we are unable to offer a refund for purchases made on PlayStation Store unless the content is found to be defective.
Also I may add that the game can't be removed from your account and will always be available on your download list.
For your reference, our Terms of Service can be found here.
I hope this helps, but if you have any other questions please contact PlayStation Support using the contact details below or by replying to this e-mail. "


I replied that I had called Sony Support while I was waiting 6 days for a reply

"
Having spent 52 minutes on hold, I spoke with a lady and advised her that the game was not in my Download List and that I had taken pictures of the list to show all my purchases. She said I could attach them in the email and send to you so please see below the pictures of my download list with everything I have downloaded since the puchase of the PS3.
As I cannot attach all of them at the same time, I am sending them in seperate emails"

It took me almost 2 days to send those pictures by email because I kept getting a message back to say their inbox was full! I even uploaded them to imgur (http://imgur.com/a/bZMZ9?gallery) and sent the link in an email but they said they couldnt view the links. I ended up just sending a pic of the first page and last page of my download order as it would show them when i first downloaded something and the last time, which was well before the 4th October.

They replied

"As previously advised, we would require pictures of your complete download list if we are to investigate this matter further for you.
You may be encountering issues sending these as an attachment due to the file size. If possible, try compressing the files.
I hope this helps, but if you have any other questions please call PlayStation Support using the contact details below."

This was the 13th November. Eventually I managed to get all the pictures sent on to Sony.

I got a reply on November 16th

"I can see from your e-mail that you're having some problems with your purchase from the PlayStation®Store. To resolve this issue, please go to the Settings menu on your console and select [PSN] > [Restore Licences]. Alternatively if this does not work, please try download the game to your console from the PlayStation®Store through a web browser. If you are still unable to access your purchased content, please contact us by phone using the contact details below so we can assist you further.
I hope this helps, but if you have any other questions please contact PlayStation Support using the contact details below or by replying to this e-mail."

And it was at this point, when I went to do this process that I discovered the game in question was a PS4 game and not a PS3, I do not own a PS4, not yet anyway! I sent them an email to explain this

"
I cannot find that option on the PS and when I go online, i can only see it for the PS4. So I had a look around and it turns out that the game is only available on PS4.
Now I don't have a PS4 so this game is useless to me. As I am not too familiar with a PS 4, i don't think I would be able to download it on my PS 3 and even if I could, what would be the point since its a PS 4 exclusive game.
So as a result, i would like a refund please. Your company has admitted that the purchase was not made from my console so this fraudulent purchase should be refunded as I am down €40 for nothing"

They got back to me on the 18th

"I am sorry to hear that you are unhappy with the conclusion of your inquiry and I can appreciate that this is not the outcome that you've anticipated.
I can see from your e-mail that you'd like a refund for your purchase from the PlayStation Store. As we are unable to return digital services (such as content licenses) to ourselves, and in some cases these services
would still be available after an account was refunded, regrettably we cannot offer a refund for this purchase.
However, as we have already advised you regarding this issue, we are unable to help you any further.
I am sorry we cannot be of greater assistance on this occasion., but if you have any further questions please contact PlayStation Support using the contact details below or by replying directly to this e-mail and quoting reference 141006-003959."

And I replied as I was annoyed with this

"So you are basically saying that you will take €39.99 from me and give me nothing back in return?
I don't have a PS 4 so I can't even download the game.
I am sure there is something that you can do to help me"

Their reply on the 20th

"As explained in a previous e-mail we are unable to refund your purchase as stated in our Terms of Service. If you do wish to dispute this further you will need to call us so we can look at your case in more detail.
For your reference, our Terms of Service can be found here.
I hope this helps, but if you have any other questions please contact PlayStation Support using the contact details below."

And again my reply to them

"A 30 second call to you cost me €1.07 roughly, every time I call the estimated waiting time is either 30 or 50 minutes. You have already taken €39.99 from me, is that not enough?
I can only call after work, i can't call between 12 and 15 like you suggested in a previous email"

I didnt hear back after that so I did the only thing I could do, I called my bank, advised them that there had been a fraudulent purchase on my credit card, explained to them the situation and that I had been in contact with Sony to ty to sort it out but got nowhere so they sent me some papers to sign and I got my €40 back. On December 10th I went to login to my PS3 account and got the message to say my account had been tempoarily banned or suspended. I had a feeling it had something to do with me contacting my bank so I made the dreaded call to Sony, once again after waiting almost an hour, I got through to a lovely girl Natasha. I told her that I got the banned/suspended message and she said that it was due to a charge back from the bank and that if I wanted to get unbanned I would have to purchase a PS Store voucher of €40 and call them up then they could unban it.
I explained to her why I had to go through my bank and she asked me what console I had.
I told her a PS3 and she said that there was a PS4 registered in the States with my details and that the game was purchased for that console. So she blocked that console and said she would asked that my issue be looked at again as it wasn't fair that I was refused a refund after I had contacted them straight away when the purchase happened and also because of the fact that I don't own a PS 4. She was very helpful! So today I called looking for an update, the person on the phone said there was an email sent to me, he would forward it on again and that was it, he didnt give me any further infomation so I had to wait for the email to come in and when it did, I read it and it was pretty much the same email I was sent towards the start of my problem

"As these transactions were processed using our online webstore it is not possible to trace the device responsible. however, as outlined in our Terms of Service, the account holder is responsible for all use of the SEN account, including all purchases, and agrees to pay for all orders placed using their SEN account. For this reason, we cannot offer a refund for these transactions.
We will investigate this device and take action where appropriate, however we will be unable to share details of this with the customer.
The billing details have already been removed from the account. Please advise customer to change their account password to re-secure their account.
In case the customer wishes to review their transaction history please invite them to do so by logging into XMB > Account Management > Transaction Management > Transaction History on their console or at https://account.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com."

I feel like I am being held to ransom here, as a result of having my account suspended, I have lost out on availing of the online sales during and after Christmas. All I want is to be able to access my account again.

I read recently about a guy in the US who had a similar problem but $600 worth of games was purchased http://www.craveonline.com/gaming/articles/834279-sony-wont-refund-600-hacked-psn-user-offers-perma-ban-account-instead

Eventually Sony sorted him out yet when I called today, again, they still give me the usual stuff about the TOS and it being my fault.

Retr0gamer

Threaten to take them to the small claims court and then do so if they don't respond to that. Unfortunately going by Sony's terms and conditions they can ban you from your account for no reason and block access to your games. However I doubt any judge is going to feel those conditions are fair and they pretty much break the law. I'd read up on the terms and conditions first.

Try to escalate it to a manager as well, ask to speak to them because helding a customer responsible for fraudulant activity is probably illegal as well.

More than likely Sony won't turn up for the case lose it and then be legally obliged to follow through with the judges order or if they do turn up then there's no way they can argue the enforcement of their T&C since they are against EU and Irish law (unlike in the US which favours big corporations). However educate yourself on the matter first. Usually a small claims court threat is enough.

AlanDeGenerous

RobbingBandit wrote: »

If I read that right You state that funds were added to your account mysteriously and then used to purchase the game, why did you ask for a refund of funds you yourself didn't add or redeem?

Maybe that raised some flags with Sony support.

Added to his account using the card details he had stored on the console.

RobbingBandit

AlanDeGenerous wrote: »

Added to his account using the card details he had stored on the console.

I have deleted my post as i guessed that this is probably the case.

rizzla

I feel for you. I remember I got an e-mail funds had been added to my account and I hadn't done it. Luckily it was just renewing my PS+ sub but I was worried for a couple of mins. Just removed my CC from my account there.

Max Mafioso

Every time I have asked for a supervisor or manager I am told they are not there or not available, having worked in Customer Service for 10 years, I told them that I have used that excuse before.
The person I spoke to today had to put me on hold 4 times to "check with someone" I was tempted to ask him to let me speak to whoever he was asking questions but to be honest, after being on the phone for almost an hour, I just wanted to get off and I'm in work too so I couldn't stay on longer anyway.

rizzla

Do Sony have a Playstation Support twitter? The Xbox one is very good. Probably because it's public, they deal with problems quickly.

I think Retr0gamer's advise is the best though, you should try that route.

Max Mafioso

rizzla wrote: »

Do Sony have a Playstation Support twitter? The Xbox one is very good. Probably because it's public, they deal with problems quickly.

I think Retr0gamer's advise is the best though, you should try that route.

They do and I tweeted them at the time as well as posted on their FB but never got a reply from there, I even posted on their forums and got no where.

I'll give them a call next week and advise them that I will probably go through the small claims court.

Retr0gamer

I was going to suggest social media as well, taking it public is usually a good way of getting them to take the finger out.

turbot

I have had similar experiences with Dell.

What you need to know:

1) Their CS interactions have been arcitected to maximise profit without caring if its fair or ethical.

2) If you "fight" this on their terms, the time cost to benefit is likely to be in their favour.

3) If you just want your account, the easiest irrational move is to pay the €40

4) If you're angry, find other people in Europe who this happened to, and write to European authorities outlining what happened and flagging they seem to be conspiring to frustrate resolution. Also research and write to financial regulators and outline that the fair chargeback under irish law for a fraudulent purchase has led to the revokation of other paid services, where PSN seem to be forcjng your exposure to fraud.

Sharing your story may protect others too!

Forest Demon

Typical Sony. Their customer service is a joke. Plenty of examples all over the net. PSN is not good enough for a paid service. I have had nothing but problems on PS4 that I never had on Xbox live. Really considering trading the ps4 against an Xbox one. Only thing stopping me is I am a fighting games fan and the community is more active on ps4 and street fighter is a ps4 exclusive.

Myrddin

Something similar to this happened me ages ago, & I got nowhere with support. I ended up just leaving it, but I'll never leave CC details stored on a Sony machine again.

wilser

My Sony/Paypal account was also hacked a couple of months ago but I rang my credit card company first before I got in touch with Sony or PayPal.
The credit card company sorted everything, I didn't need to get in touch with either Sony or PayPal. A few days later got the €50 credited back to me, probably too late for you to go down this road but if it happens to anyone else I think this would be the best option.

Max Mafioso

I got my money back, the issue is that Sony have banned my account because i got my money back through the bank

Unearthly

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I was going to suggest social media as well, taking it public is usually a good way of getting them to take the finger out.

this is definitely the best way to go. Find out the names of the execs in Sony and go singing to them on twitter.

most big companies will have an escalations and social media department that look to mitigate bad exposure

Varik

wilser wrote: »

My Sony/Paypal account was also hacked a couple of months ago but I rang my credit card company first before I got in touch with Sony or PayPal.
The credit card company sorted everything, I didn't need to get in touch with either Sony or PayPal. A few days later got the €50 credited back to me, probably too late for you to go down this road but if it happens to anyone else I think this would be the best option.

Max Mafioso wrote: »

I got my money back, the issue is that Sony have banned my account because i got my money back through the bank

You got the money back through a charge back, that wasn't the right way to do it. Not sure how you explained it to the bank but that wasn't the way they normally sort this out.

If you had bought a game normally and never got it or it was remove later then that would be an issue that the bank would sort with a charge back, but in that case it would have been unlikely to have needed it as Sony would have eventually sorted it.

This was fraud and how it was sorted for wilser is what should have happened. If your card was stolen or lost and then used in a shop somewhere you'd report it as that and be credited the amount and probably reissued a card, but you wouldn't go to the shop in question and grab the cash from the till.

Ring up the bank and make sure they know it was fraud and explain the current situation, they reverse the charge back and then credit your account. That may sort it for you and Sony.

Unearthly

Varik wrote: »

You got the money back through a charge back, that wasn't the right way to do it. Not sure how you explained it to the bank but that wasn't the way they normally sort this out.

If you had bought a game normally and never got it or it was remove later then that would be an issue that the bank would sort with a charge back, but in that case it would have been unlikely to have needed it as Sony would have eventually sorted it.

This was fraud and how it was sorted for wilser is what should have happened. If your card was stolen or lost and then used in a shop somewhere you'd report it as that and be credited the amount and probably reissued a card, but you wouldn't go to the shop in question and grab the cash from the till.

Ring up the bank and make sure they know it was fraud and explain the current situation, they reverse the charge back and then credit your account. That may sort it for you and Sony.

A chargeback can be issued for unauthorised activity. If a payment processer is used such as PayPal then it's PayPal who are liable and take the hit, that's probably why Sony didn't have an issue with the above example.

However In the OP scenario the bank have taken the money back from Sony as there was no third party processer and they have banned him cause of it which is ridiculous

I am not sure why Sony are saying they are not liable, because if they processed the payment online, they ARE liable to the bank. They should have anti fraud procedures in place such as IP checks, payment pattern checks etc.

Not only that but the OP tried to be reasonable and offer his own solutions and instead he gets back generic unpersonalised responses.

As far as I can see, Sony have failed customer service, and risk mitigation abysmally

I understand that things like this happen and i can get over that fact, but when i see a company not dealing with the customer properly it makes me run a mile from them.

Tomagotchye

Max Mafioso wrote: »

Every time I have asked for a supervisor or manager I am told they are not there or not available, having worked in Customer Service for 10 years, I told them that I have used that excuse before.

What did you expect them to say though? "Damn, you caught me...I'll get my supervisor right now?" They won't. It's frustrating alright though.

wilser

Varik wrote: »

This was fraud .

Exactly what the credit card company said, I asked should I contact the guards as well and they said no they will look after everything.
I was going to contact Sony first but after reading this thread it seems I dodged a bullet there:)

Max Mafioso

I told the bank exactly what happened, i told them my credit card was associated with the console as I had made purchases on the console before. They asked me if I had authorised the payment of €39.99 and I told them I didn't.

shruikan2553

It's standard procedure. Payment made using your debit/credit card? Bank cancels card, goes through recent transactions with you to find which ones weren't done by you and they refund you the money and pass everything along to their fraud department.

Im not sure what sony would expect. The card was used for fraudulent reasons, the owner is hardly going to say to the bank "no, keep all the transactions made"

Savage Tyrant

You claim you never bought the game and that it was a fraudulent purchase.
Sony investigates the matter and agrees.

It should be a straightforward apology and a refund... You even offered them a deal to take what amounts to store credit.
But then when the Credit Card company steps in to say they are refunding the payment Sony get the hump and ban you from their service. Unreal.
Really reflects poorly on Sony and I hope you get a resolution.

If somebody used your credit card to buy an item in a jewellery shop for instance.
Reported as fraudulent. Credit card company refunds you... Is the Jewellers entitled to ban you from shopping there again?

It baffles me.

Varik

wilser wrote: »

Exactly what the credit card company said, I asked should I contact the guards as well and they said no they will look after everything.
I was going to contact Sony first but after reading this thread it seems I dodged a bullet there:)

Just to clarify.

I can only see the option to fund a wallet via paypal, rather than automatically doing so with an attached cc. So I can't see how someone would do the same in you case with your PSN account.

If the paypal account was used fraudulently by someone on their PSN account yours would be in no danger of being banned.

Max Mafioso

You can add funds to the PSN wallet without Paypal, if you try to purchase something and there is no funds in the account it will ask you if you want to add it with a CC.

Varik

Max Mafioso wrote: »

You can add funds to the PSN wallet without Paypal, if you try to purchase something and there is no funds in the account it will ask you if you want to add it with a CC.

I know that, and not what I was asking. Wanted to know how he had the charge against his paypal account when it can only be funded and not charged automatically.

It was his paypal account that was accessed, not his PSN so he was in no danger of a ban. The guy who used his Paypal account to buy anything on PSN was likely banned but he was at no risk there.

Max Mafioso

Oh, sorry my bad, I misunderstood what you had said!

Uncle Ruckus

"I can see by your unhelpful replies to my emails that you are total, thieving bastards! "
What a farce. I really hope you get this sorted out o.p.

Retr0gamer

I think it's worth bringing this thread back. BBC's watchdog are doing a special on this subject and scared Sony into giving a refund... 6 months later and probably only because of the Watchdog special. Might be worth asking for that refund now:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-05-28-playstation-digital-policy-under-the-spotlight-on-bbcs-watchdog-tonight

Varik

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I think it's worth bringing this thread back. BBC's watchdog are doing a special on this subject and scared Sony into giving a refund... 6 months later and probably only because of the Watchdog special. Might be worth asking for that refund now:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-05-28-playstation-digital-policy-under-the-spotlight-on-bbcs-watchdog-tonight

Doubt it, same thing happened when watchdog covered the yellow light of death Sony sorted those on the show but it didn't change any of their policies for anyone else.

SMC92Ian

The bastards done the exact same thing to me, they were actually on ITV last night on Watchdog talking about this very subject.