HKC Quantum 70 engineer code

Technofobe

Hi All
Friend of mine moved in to a house which the previous owner had a HKC Quantum 70 alarm the user code appears to have been reset to 1111 which
from the manual kindly donated by Koolkid is the default code
I was going to change this but the default engineer code appears to have been changed :-(
So My question is that if the installers took the trouble to change the engineer code is it likley they used the engineer lock to prevent the code being factory reset by removing jp1
I dont think the alarm will get much use its just that It wakes him up at 3:00am beeping saying system armed he then has to get out of bed and disarm it

also this looks like a pretty flimsy panel ( no offence to HKC ) how does one remove the front cover without pulling the whole thing off the wall did not see any screws or obvious tabs
thanks for looking
any comments & help much appreciated

Small bungalow
system is hkc quantum 70
1 bellbox
1 pir
2 doors
4 windows
all appear to be wireless shocks / contacts

cheers

KoolKid

There are some installers who would change the engineer code but not lock the panel. Only way to know is to try it. There may also a faulty device that is causing the false alarms.

Technofobe

KoolKid wrote: »

There are some installers who would change the engineer code but not lock the panel. Only way to know is to try it. There may also a faulty device that is causing the false alarms.

Thanks for the reply :-)
May give it a go as it will go in the bin if it keeps waking him up @ 3am anyway
Cheers man
Any easy way to open this panel ?

Sequence 365

Why don't we put Altors engineer code up here just in case any body needs it

altor

Sequence 365 wrote: »

Why don't we put Altors engineer code up here just in case any body needs it

Go for it :-)

altor

Sequence 365 wrote: »

I'd give you 100 free Rico panels if it ever worked for you
Thankfully we don't loose customers
But if a customer or a new owner of a premises an engineer would just go to site and give them a new one

I do agree if a customer requests access to there panel , and there is no outstanding invoices etc . Yes there should be a default code put in for them but not a companies main code.

There are engineer codes in everything now ph systems , gates, access
There are also some cars out there that the owner can only open the fuel cap & have no access to engine

I dont be down your way much but if I ever do I can read most codes either way with my laptop, just the perks of knowing what you are doing

There is only one code for full engineer access on any system.

I don't use the same code so even if you knew one, the next is different
If a company use one code then its them that the security flaw lies with. Anyway, today's systems need a engineer code and a user code to gain access to the alarm. If a system is locked then a end user is looking at paying for it to be defaulted and set back up. If they have this code then it is an expense they will not have to pay for.

fred funk }{

Engineer codes should not be given out on the public forum.

KoolKid

The engineer code issue has been bashed out here many times. It's one that will go on and on as many people have different takes on it.
I'm not going to get into a debate on it, but I'll just pass on a few things I have learnt over the years.

End users are not entitled to every access code on any device they have purchased. Every home appliances or electronic device you have will have engineer codes as well and manufacture codes, technician codes etc. Ownership does not entitle you to this for various reasons. These codes may be for setting regional settings. They may involve settings for the device to comply with legal requirements to be sold in any particular region etc...
Likewise installers and their codes do not give you complete access to any system. There are codes, keys and software that would allow manufacturers etc to make essential settings and changes. Many for the reasons set above.
If a panel can be easily reset by another licenced installer you are not compelled to give out an engineer code to an end user that had employed any other installer or company. If they are unable or unwilling to carry out the necessary work why should another installer be obliged to do that work for nothing?
I agree with the practice of offering to change an engineer code FOC for a customer should the need arise. However I prefer the option of defaulting the panel. That way you cannot be held responsible for any setting changed on the system. Otherwise what's to stop the next installer setting a zone up on soak test, or unused, or turning off shocks etc and claiming it was like that when he took it over. Yes there should be a full service done etc. But as we all know, paper work is not always in order.
At the end of the day most of us can unlock most panels. The ones that amaze me are the ones that leave panels with engineer lock off leaving a huge vulnerability where the panel can be reset and disarmed in a matter of minutes using information freely available.
This is just my opinion on what I have learnt from well over 20 years in the industry. I am not going to get into a debate on it but hopefully the information above is helpful to some.

Technofobe

Hi All
My friend called the installer today
the installer told him that if he put in the 0+default user code he would get access to the menu and could change the user code from there
I did say that we had already tried the default code but not 0+default code & it did not give us access.
Just to prove same I got in the car and drove down knowing this would not make any difference

When the user code or the 0+user code which is the default one are put in the system sets or unsets without any options
In the manual it says that when the code is put in an option will be displayed to unset press yes
press # full arm and so on

these options do not appear when the code is put in it just goes straight to the countdown timer this would indicate that the user menu has been disabled as in page 45 of the install manual
Is there a way to interrupt the countdown and access the menu
or am I doing something wrong here
Without the menu it appears that the ability to even change the user code from default has been disabled or is there a different firmware in the system than the manual
Thanks
thanks

altor

Technofobe wrote: »

Hi All
My friend called the installer today
the installer told him that if he put in the 0+default user code he would get access to the menu and could change the user code from there
I did say that we had already tried the default code but not 0+default code & it did not give us access.
Just to prove same I got in the car and drove down knowing this would not make any difference

When the user code or the 0+user code which is the default one are put in the system sets or unsets without any options
In the manual it says that when the code is put in an option will be displayed to unset press yes
press # full arm and so on

these options do not appear when the code is put in it just goes straight to the countdown timer this would indicate that the user menu has been disabled as in page 45 of the install manual
Is there a way to interrupt the countdown and access the menu
or am I doing something wrong here
Without the menu it appears that the ability to even change the user code from default has been disabled or is there a different firmware in the system than the manual
Thanks
thanks

By default these menus are off.
Have you engineer access to the alarm?

Technofobe

altor wrote: »

By default these menus are off.
Have you engineer access to the alarm?

Hi Altor
No As I said in the pm last week the default engineer code had also been changed

Will try defaulting it over the weekend
ta

altor

Technofobe wrote: »

Hi Altor
No As I said in the pm last week the default engineer code had also been changed

Will try defaulting it over the weekend
ta

That looks like the only option.
Other than asking the installer if passing to set this up for you.
Some will and others will charge.

KoolKid

How long is this system installed. I would feel hard done by to be charged for something that should have been set up in the first place.

Technofobe

KoolKid wrote: »

How long is this system installed. I would feel hard done by to be charged for something that should have been set up in the first place.

Thanks for the replys folks

It gets worse than that
its a council house
The system was installed 10 months ago ( I assume it was paid for )
When my friend got this house the council ( I again assume paid )the installers to come and change the code as they did not know what it was
The code was changed to the default usercode and locked out of even being able to reset the user code
and now that its still locked to the default code I guess installers are waiting for a call to come out yet again and get paid to enable a code change and no doubt service contract

Never going to happen :-(

Tell me Im wrong lads that this is not the way this industry works please


How to hang on to your customers eh
Will try default it today

Am I right thinking that if its engineer locked nothing will change ?
That it wont wipe all the wireless sensors and be still locked out of engineer mode preventing reprogramming

If its not engineer locked I will get an option to default
and start from scratch with the default code which can then be changed to whatever he wants
cheers

KoolKid

Sounds like they are looking for a handy call out. This would not be normal good practice.
Definitely there should be no charge on a new installation that has not been programmed correctly.

Technofobe

Well I guess its game over

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Its just taking up space on the wall now useless

Only other thing I can think of is it possible to flash the firmware even with the same version to restore it to default
Ver 3.0.10 ? as there is a serial and usb port on the board

KoolKid

A good engineer would sort that for you.
A firmware upgrade won't default it.

altor

Technofobe wrote: »

Thanks for the replys folks

It gets worse than that
its a council house
The system was installed 10 months ago ( I assume it was paid for )
When my friend got this house the council ( I again assume paid )the installers to come and change the code as they did not know what it was
The code was changed to the default usercode and locked out of even being able to reset the user code
and now that its still locked to the default code I guess installers are waiting for a call to come out yet again and get paid to enable a code change and no doubt service contract

Never going to happen :-(

Tell me Im wrong lads that this is not the way this industry works please


How to hang on to your customers eh
Will try default it today

Am I right thinking that if its engineer locked nothing will change ?
That it wont wipe all the wireless sensors and be still locked out of engineer mode preventing reprogramming

If its not engineer locked I will get an option to default
and start from scratch with the default code which can then be changed to whatever he wants
cheers

If the system is in a property not owned by yourself or the tenant then its up to the council or landlord whichever be the case to sort this. User menus are usually set up in rented property so the tenant does not have user rights to change the codes. If this is the case then the council will use who installed to change the code.
Do you not think the company has a right to be paid for a call out at the request of the council?

Sequence 365

Nope
Because then we all pay

altor

Sequence 365 wrote: »

Nope
Because then we all pay

That is a good point.
I would still not expect an installer to attend a site under instruction and not get paid.

Sequence 365

But if you are getting a lot of business from the client . You have to look at the bigger picture

Stoner

OK guys let's keep this on track please. 22 posts deleted.

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

If the system is in a property not owned by yourself or the tenant then its up to the council or landlord whichever be the case to sort this. User menus are usually set up in rented property so the tenant does not have user rights to change the codes.

That is why alarms come with the option of multiple user codes that can each be set up with different attributes/rights. IMO an installer leaving just one user code with no rights except set/unset , is either unable to programme the system correctly or is looking for a handy and unnecessary call out.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

That is why alarms come with the option of multiple user codes that can each be set up with different attributes/rights. IMO an installer leaving just one user code with no rights except set/unset , is either unable to programme the system correctly or is looking for a handy and unnecessary call out.

As I said.

altor wrote: »

User menus are usually set up in rented property so the tenant does not have user rights to change the codes.

KoolKid

But the owners should have access to change the code without having to pay a call out.
Do you not agree?

Technofobe

altor wrote: »

If the system is in a property not owned by yourself or the tenant then its up to the council or landlord whichever be the case to sort this. User menus are usually set up in rented property so the tenant does not have user rights to change the codes. If this is the case then the council will use who installed to change the code.
Do you not think the company has a right to be paid for a call out at the request of the council?

Did not intend to cause any trouble
sorry folks
Will seek answers elsewhere
Thank you for your help

Stoner

OK guys

I asked you to keep it on track. I had to delete 22 posts already from this thread.

You both ignored a mods instruction to continue your off track discussion.


Time for you both to take a break from the forum for a while. I've gone out of my way to try to get you to stop this type of behaviour but it didn't work