P in the Pool

Kurt_Godel

Wed 37min turbo; 750m OW swim

10 easy
4x(1 HC, 30sec easy)
4x(30sec build, 30sec easy)
4x(2 race wattage, 1 easy)
5 easy

Adjusted the saddle throughout this to see what worked best. A slight angle is good, and I angled it forward even more for the last 4 mins which seemed to work even better. I will test it on the road to check its not too aggressive, if so it just needs a 2 degree tilt back.

**********

Swim was really to test the new suit. I got to Clogga beach early so no-one was around to help me zip in, but I managed to get it done myself. Thats a good start! Straight in and see what its like... fantastic flexibility around the shoulders, there is very little restriction and seems closer to skins swimming than my previous suit. The legs seem to be floating a little high- that could be my imagination and the real test will be under race conditions. For tonight I was content to do some fast bursts, just 750m in all. My neck was a bit raw from the weekends swimming and I didn't have bodyglide on tonight- so no point staying out longer and having a raw neck on Sunday. First impressions are very positive. The shoulder flexibility is the real benefit, and I can always cut the legs if I feel they are too high.

(Thanks again to Joey100, bargain spot of the year!)

Kurt_Godel

Thurs 6k run in 29:03

5 easy
4x(250m 10 sec faster than race pace, 250m race pace, 500m easy)
5 easy

I have four drawers for clothes, 1.5 of which are general tshirts, jumpers, etc.; 2.5 are bursting with sportswear. Today I realised I have more trisuits than running shorts- I guess the transition from jogger to lycra is well and truly cemented

Up in the forest, a nice wet damp day for running. These were a little faster than my planned race pace, but that will only spur me to go faster on race day.

Dory Dory

Good luck on Sunday!!!!! I hope it's a great day out for you, and I hope your bike's fit is spot on and your family jewels are safe. :)

mossym

best of luck sunday kurt, be looking forward to hearing how you get on.

pgibbo

The very best of luck on Sunday. Have a good one #gohardorgohome

Kurt_Godel

^ cheers lads and lassie, I will give it what I got to give on the day.

Sat 20min bike, 2k run; 1,250m swim

10 easy
5x(1 race wattage, 1 easy)
onto run
1 km race pace, 1 km easy

Bike feels a lot better after tinkering with the saddle, I feel like staying down aero for longer, and I'm getting more value from the power. I'm still largely clueless about bike riding, I will often go up hills and hit over 400W. I've been told to keep this under 320W, and keep a good eye on the target Wattage right the way around.
Straight onto the run, a tough km going up a steep hill (wanted to avoid a local funeral cortage) which was tougher effort than planned race pace, but a nice substitute for the first km in the race (there's a hill IIRC).

Swim:
100sw,100p,100k
4x50 fist
4x50 as 25 fs, 25 sw
8x50 on 70 alt fast/easy
100k 50k,100p100sw

I skipped the kicks as I was really tight on time, the pool was closing and I just managed to get in this bonus swim. The fast 50's were in 35-37 without massive effort, more focus on form than power in fact.

joey100

Best of luck tomorrow Kurt, pty your not in the same wave to give me a nice tow again!

Kurt_Godel

Sun Dublin City Tri 2:27:36 (64 of 400, AG 9 of 57)

It was piffing raining here last night, loaded up the car, set up my clothes, toothbrush, coffee machine, set the alarm. It went at 5:00, I was in the car sipping coffee at 5:12, no time to think about the lashing rain.

Rain, rain, rain, that was the order of the day. Got parked, regged, goody-bagged (awesome bag!), racked. Said hello to a few from these parts, and into the water to acclimatise (the water was much warmer than standing around!)


Swim- 25:03 mins is disappointing, I was leading my wave after 150m but couldn't sustain the pace. That's fine, but I didn't expect such a drop-off. Seems like others times were slower than usual too. The new wetsuit felt good, so no complaints there. I was targeting a "solid" swim and not exit knackered, so while I went on to have a good bike, I need to refine this a bit. Slightly harder effort required. No garmin on the swim.

Bike 1:14:07- extremely slippy in the rain, tight corners, wet
leaves... saw quite a few spills, and I was content to take the
corners slow and careful. I targetted 260+W whenever I looked, and
kept it under 320W on hills (often spiked over 400W so I spun more).
Congestion as the laps went on, but I stayed out of trouble, stayed
aero for most, and had probably my best bike yet. Av 242W, av speed
32.9kph. Happy with that given the amount of stopping/slowing for corners.

Run 44:28- run was mainly on grass/mud and was boggy/slippy. I
expected a run a minute slower than CK (43mins) so its about
expectations. I went much better on the Chesterfield tarmac, as the
grass was so wet it just sapped your stride. I might have squeezed out another minute, but might have blown up too.

Overall- 2:27:36, gave it what I had, went easier on the swim and that
led to a better bike, and a decent if not spectacular run. I would have expected a faster time than CK (2:19) as I felt the effort was greater. But the
conditions were what flavoured the day- most peoples times are well
down on CK, and I beat quite a few that beat me in CK so in that sense
I raced well. More to the point I was also a lot closer to those who were far ahead of me in CK. So I tried something different in this race; to see if three solid-if-unspectacular disciplines make for a better finish than a great swim and tired bike and run. No doubt about it, Jack of all trades beats Master of one. Even though there is a lot to still work on and refine, its probably my best race to date.

Kurt_Godel

joey100 wrote: »

Best of luck tomorrow Kurt, pty your not in the same wave to give me a nice tow again!

I would have slowed you down Good to see you today, I gauged my bike by each time I saw you at the switchback, and you were going well on the run. I didn't hang round after, too cold!

zico10

I wanted to ask you about those oven baked cycling shoes you were telling me about at CK. Which ones were they? Did you use them again at Dublin Tri? And how is the fit now?

Kurt_Godel

zico10 wrote: »

I wanted to ask you about those oven baked cycling shoes you were telling me about at CK. Which ones were they? Did you use them again at Dublin Tri? And how is the fit now?

Bont Riot TR Cycle Triathlon Shoe, cheaper now from Wiggle than when I bought them. I used their online sizing calculator which worked well for me.

They fit very well after moulding them a second time (you can do this as often as you like). Used them at Dublin Tri, still not 100% happy with getting my feet in (one foot went in great, the other I had to fiddle with so I think I need more practice). Feet came out well. I don't know much about bike shoes but FWIW they fit well and feel good, and I had my best bike yet at DCT.

Kurt_Godel

WED 750m swim part of bray Aquathon

This was the last night of the series, I was feeling much better, and I got the all clear so long as my legs felt 100%. Unlikely, but I travelled up anyway and Regged. Went for a warm up which told me the legs were still tired, so I would just do the swim. Went out not quite as fast as usual, got mauled around the bouy, and the remainder was an exercise in what works and what doesn't when swimming hard. I learned a good bit from this race, including what I do when I get dropped, and what I do when I make up ground.
Think I exited pretty high, was tempted for a second to chance the run, but banished that thought, it would have been too risky.

RJM85

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

No doubt about it, Jack of all trades beats Master of one.

It's best to think about it all as one sport I think (not that I'm an expert). The best triathletes I know are better at the 3 disciplines together than any one individual sport (even where they have a strongest discipline).

Dory Dory

"The whole is greater than the sum of its parts."

Kurt_Godel

RJM85 wrote: »

It's best to think about it all as one sport I think (not that I'm an expert). The best triathletes I know are better at the 3 disciplines together than any one individual sport (even where they have a strongest discipline).

Spot on- I've dialled back the swimming effort a bit and its helped the overall race. No point exiting the water high and being overtaken the rest of the race. Whatever it takes to get your best result at the finish line is what matters. Triathlon-specific training (and specific thinking) is needed for this one sport, something I only realise this year.

Dory Dory wrote: »

"The whole is greater than the sum of its parts."

Holism! By way of introduction, this image precedes the "Prelude, Ant Fugue" chapter in "Godel-Esher-Bach", which is all about Holism (or you could say its all about Reductionism). Kind of looks like an eternal 6% gradient World, too

pgibbo

Not being a smart ass or anything here but you've learned a lot this year. You've also made some great gains. Nice work.

Fair play for showing the restraint and not running last night. I'd say this time last year you'd have been gung-ho and risked it.

mossym

what have you left Kurt? is season over or still got races to go?

Kurt_Godel

pgibbo wrote: »

Not being a smart ass or anything here but you've learned a lot this year. You've also made some great gains. Nice work.

Fair play for showing the restraint and not running last night. I'd say this time last year you'd have been gung-ho and risked it.

Yes, this year has been a huge learning experience. I'm already looking forward to next year and applying those lessons properly. It helps having a very good teacher who knows the sport inside out, and knows when to push, and when to hold back in training. Advice from this forum has been useful too, even when I don't seem to take it initially the good stuff stays with you to mull over. I used go for glory and fight someone over the last 100m of a swim to exit one spot higher. Joey suggested its better to take the draft and exit n+1, advice I refuted at the time but soon realised was correct.

mossym wrote: »

what have you left Kurt? is season over or still got races to go?

Lough Key Sprint on the 6th Sept is a maybe, and then Clougherhead Sprint on the 26th is the big goal. Then pool training resumes!

tunney

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Yes, this year has been a huge learning experience. I'm already looking forward to next year and applying those lessons properly. It helps having a very good teacher who knows the sport inside out, and knows when to push, and when to hold back in training. Advice from this forum has been useful too, even when I don't seem to take it initially the good stuff stays with you to mull over. I used go for glory and fight someone over the last 100m of a swim to exit one spot higher. Joey suggested its better to take the draft and exit n+1, advice I refuted at the time but soon realised was correct.

Wasn't it n+30 in DCT to Joey?

Kurt_Godel

tunney wrote: »

Wasn't it n+30 in DCT to Joey?

Case in point-
CK Tri, I swam faster than Joey, he finished 13 mins ahead of me.
DC Tri, he swam faster than me, he finished 8 mins ahead.

Must be easy being a coach, just push peoples buttons, sit back, and let rivalry do the work

tunney

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Case in point-
CK Tri, I swam faster than Joey, he finished 13 mins ahead of me.
DC Tri, he swam faster than me, he finished 8 mins ahead.

Must be easy being a coach, just push peoples buttons, sit back, and let rivalry do the work

Motivated for 2016 yet?

Kurt_Godel

tunney wrote: »

Motivated for 2016 yet?

Seriously, only last week I was thinking about this, how much I'm looking forward to next years racing.

sconhome

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Must be easy being a coach, just push peoples buttons, sit back, and let rivalry do the work

Whoops! Think you just pushed his back he'll have to come out and whip everyone next season now

Kurt_Godel

AKW wrote: »

Whoops! Think you just pushed his back he'll have to come out and whip everyone next season now

I've sent him a list of all the Tri's that give finishers medals

tunney

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Lough Key Sprint on the 6th Sept is a maybe, and then Clougherhead Sprint on the 26th is the big goal. Then pool training resumes!

Is a return to the pool as your main focus the most sensible thing?
The swim is the least significant part of a non draft legal tri?

Rank|Time|Diff from fastest
00:25:04|64|3:47
01:14:08|90|8:57
00:44:59|103|12:14


Is the pool the best place to focus or the place you feel most comfortable?
Also should you choose to return to the pool as a focus was your 2015 training structured in the pool in the most optimal way for tri performance?

sconhome

Kurt_Godel

Based on your table you're hoist by your own petard. (The fastest run number you qouted is incorrect by the way, I know the lad who ran the supposed 32:45 and that was his time for two laps )

Time|Rank|Diff from fastest|Ratio mine/fastest (so closest to 1 is more impressive score)
00:25:04|64|3:47|0.80
01:14:08|90|8:57|0.83
00:44:59|103|8:50|0.88


By that reckoning I need to work harder on my swim, bike, run; in that order.

Kurt_Godel

tunney wrote: »

Is a return to the pool as your main focus the most sensible thing?
The swim is the least significant part of a non draft legal tri?
Is the pool the best place to focus or the place you feel most comfortable?
Also should you choose to return to the pool as a focus was your 2015 training structured in the pool in the most optimal way for tri performance?

Yes the pool is where I feel most comfortable, specifically chasing reps of 100's as quickly as I can. Not optimal for AG tri's, agree 100% here. So that will have to change. I need to work on swim speed endurance, and in that respect I'll have to focus more on tri-specific sets over the winter.

But I also need to work on stroke and technique to do so, and we will be coached this year for one of the two weekly sessions (including underwater vidoe analysis etc). So that should be of more benefit. Also, the Masters group swim pretty fast, and are a fairly diverse group (of OW swimmers, pool swimmers, triathletes), and overall to be part of that group is better than not being part of it IMO.

But the key point of what you're asking is should I look for winter gains in the pool as my main focus, or in the bike/run. The fact that I'm racing faster overall, by swimming less hard, should answer that. This time last year I was 95kg and not running much (and then got injured). This time I'm 85kg, running ok, and should be better able to watch for injury.

tunney

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Based on your table you're hoist by your own petard. (The fastest run number you qouted is incorrect by the way, I know the lad who ran the supposed 32:45 and that was his time for two laps )

Time|Rank|Diff from fastest|Ratio mine/fastest (so closest to 1 is more impressive score)
00:25:04|64|3:47|0.80
01:14:08|90|8:57|0.83
00:44:59|103|8:50|0.88


By that reckoning I need to work harder on my swim, bike, run; in that order.

So if you worked super hard and had the fastest swim split

So lets move your time up 43:47minutes 2:23:49, still not top 40th in the AG race. and still no AG medal. 5th in AG.

Of the top four in the AG one swam faster than you, three slower.

I don't recall seeing "top AG swimmer in M45-49" as a NS or NC category?

Kurt_Godel

tunney wrote: »

I don't recall seeing "top AG swimmer in M45-49" as a NS or NC category?

Give it time

I get your point- a tri is more about the bike/run than about the swim. And I tend to train harder in the pool.

I'm still looking forward to getting back to winter pool training- mainly for the technique work we'll be doing. Appreciate that if I want to go faster next year, pool sets this winter can't be as swim-specific as last year.