P in the Pool

Dory Dory

And the longer the tri distance is, the more insignificant the swim becomes.

pgibbo

Dory Dory wrote: »

And the longer the tri distance is, the more insignificant the swim becomes.

Speaking of which, any plans to do 70.3 or full P?

Kurt_Godel

pgibbo wrote: »

Speaking of which, any plans to do 70.3 or full P?

No chance! For that very reason, the swim is a relative splash before the main event. Sprints and Oly's are fine with me, maybe might try a double Oly. Besides, I like shorter more intense training rather than the slower volume stuff required for HIM and beyond. Happy to live them vicariously through other people's logs for a while yet!

pgibbo

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

No chance! For that very reason, the swim is a relative splash before the main event. Sprints and Oly's are fine with me, maybe might try a double Oly. Besides, I like shorter more intense training rather than the slower volume stuff required for HIM and beyond. Happy to live them vicariously through other people's logs for a while yet!

You're not too well informed if you think the training is not intense.

Kurt_Godel

pgibbo wrote: »

You're not too well informed if you think the training is not intense.

Wrong choice of wording perhaps... I prefer 45mins of suffering on the turbo to 2hr+ bike spins. While both are needed for both Sprint and IM, the 2hr+ (5hr+!) spins are more necessary for IM.

And you are right, I'm not well informed, about Tri in general. There's a heap of stuff I get wrong, or novice mistakes I never think to ask about. Just this last week I learned:
Going uphill at 400W+ is a bad idea;
3sec average W pace is more useful in a race than distance-to-now average W pace;
Hard cruise pace in a swim is better than threshold pace towards the end;
Wetsuits need bodyglide at the neck even late in the season;
Shorter stride with fast turnover is useful when legs are tiring;
etc etc etc

I like these logs in that I can write any old crap and people who know more aren't afraid to call it if its wrong.

68 lost souls

I know less than you about Tri but could you please expand on the 400w uphill = bad and the 3 sec watt thing?

mossym

68 lost souls wrote: »

I know less than you about Tri but could you please expand on the 400w uphill = bad and the 3 sec watt thing?

do you understand the matches concept? it's a good analogy. you start the race with a box of matches. every time you push beyond a certain limit you burn a match, burn them all and you have nothing left.

if you have an ftp of a mere mortal, you are probably pushing south of 300w, possibly way less, on average over a race. going to 400w is a huge increase over what you can hold, so it's burning a match. by restricting the power up a hill to closer to the power you can hold you save your match.

on the 3 sec thing, you want to know what watts you are pushing now. no point realising 20 minutes into a race you were pushing 50w above what you should have for the last 10 minutes, and 50 w under for the first 10, a scenario which would still have you at the right average power. instantaneous watts are all over the place, 3 sec average smooths it down a bit. even 10 secs averaging can take a while to respond to changes in effort.

Kurt_Godel

68 lost souls wrote: »

I know less than you about Tri but could you please expand on the 400w uphill = bad and the 3 sec watt thing?

Bear in mind the Wattage figures are based on my current FTP...

I had done a few races with hills, notably Geneva which had a killer 2km hill with 11˚gradient that you had to do 3 times... first time up I powered it, spiking way over 400W many times. I was spent after it, and found the next two easier by spinning at a lower wattage. Mentioned this recently to coach who said to keep hills under 320W. I did so at DCT with much greater success.

3 sec average:
Q: -what is better metric to track on the bike during a race,
average W or average kph?
A: -only thing worth checking on the bike is 3sec power, what happened 5 minutes ago happened and letting that impact your pacing now is not a great idea

68 lost souls

Ah k thanks I get what your saying now. A you said these logs are great for learning.

I was actually trying to watch this myself in DCT but using HR not FTP. As I don't have a power meter. Tried keeping the HR below 170 on the kyber and average 165 if I could. Playing it safe on the corners my Average was actually lower than planned but I'm assuming this is basicly the same thing?

Kurt_Godel

Thurs 10.6k run @ 4:40 pace Hillbrook Loop

I hadn't ran this old staple in a while, its a great little loop to do. A couple of nice hilly drags before you reach the skirt road of the hill. Great views on this cool autumnal eve. Bloody wild and romantic in fact, would have made the evening to have had Kate Bush run alongside. The rain started to pelt down where I stood (stad? I was moving) and I ran down through the sheets towards a cloudscaped setting sun in the distance.
Picked up the pace a little towards the end, got my 5*20s strides included, and splashed on home.

Kurt_Godel

68 lost souls wrote: »

I was actually trying to watch this myself in DCT but using HR not FTP. As I don't have a power meter. Tried keeping the HR below 170 on the kyber and average 165 if I could. Playing it safe on the corners my Average was actually lower than planned but I'm assuming this is basicly the same thing?

I'd assume so too but know nothing about HR training so if anyone else can answer you question?

RJM85

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

I'd assume so too but know nothing about HR training so if anyone else can answer you question?

Using HR to dictate pacing on a climb as short as anything on DCT course is probably pointless imho. By the time your HR has responded to the excess effort, you've already done the damage (and probably crested the hill). HR is also wildly influenced by other factors - in my most recent race my HR dropped from 172 (z4) to 156 (low z3) over the course of 10-12 k at almost the exact same power. Only diffrence was consuming 750m of water + electrolytes.

RJM85

That's 750 mililetres, not metres, or miles...

Kurt_Godel

Nothing done today, was at the funeral of one of our oldest and dearest clients (farewell Paddy RIP) and then meeting other clients all day... drove back via Arklow but the pool was private when I passed. Felt wrecked from the travelling and analysis so decided against a turbo and had wine with my meal. First time I've consciously skipped a session in a long old time, so I didn't feel too guilty.

Lough Dan 5km race tomorrow morning; I attempted the 10k last year in freezing choppy waters and bailed after 7.5k, so lets set the sights a little lower and see what transpires. Won't be going hell for leather, more a solid session. Lough Dan can be brutal if the wind is coming down from the NW though, lets see what the day brings.

sconhome

Good luck in the swim today.

Kurt_Godel

AKW wrote: »

Good luck in the swim today.

I didn't go in the end. As much as I like racing, this morning I decided that a couple of hours in a freezing lake without the wetsuit, wasn't the best idea after being sick this week. If I got a chill I wouldn't know if it was down to nasty Liffey stuff, or the lake race, and I need to be clear on that over the next few days. So no long lake swim for me this year.

Thats twice I've been sensible this week; want to keep an eye on that or it'll become a habit!

Kurt_Godel

Sat 17.3k hill run in 1:40, 637m elevation gain. Ballycumber loop in reverse

A few from the club were doing the Ballycumber Loop and I had a long run scheduled this weekend so my mind was made up. I am absofunkinglutely delighted to be able to run hills again, it was a clear fresh day with great views and good chat all the way around. We are blessed with great trails in this part of the world, it really is a tonic.

I found the pace handier than expected- while I'm no great climber I was more able for the drags than the last time out hillrunning. The surface was mostly good underfoot, the downhills were taken with caution; all in all a great start to the weekend.

Kurt_Godel

Sun 73 mins turbo

Plan was 60 min easy, 60 mins 85%, 30 easy. I found the first hour tougher than it should, and struggled to keep it near 245W after wards. Bailed after 13 mins, today is not my day. I didn't feel great upon waking, and I'm pretty cautious of how I feel over the next few days. It could have been tiredness from a tougher-than-usual hill run yesterday, but safer to err on the side of caution.

Kurt_Godel

Tue 60 mins run 12.3k

Kids are back in the pool training so I took my run out of Arklow along towards brittas bay. Nice road for running on. First 6k was easy (5min/km) then 4k steady (4:17, 4:16, 4:14, 4:03), finished off with an easy 2.3k slow.

Kurt_Godel

Wed 3,100m swim

200sw,200p,100k
4x50 des 1- 4 on 60 (43,44,44,42)
400sw,4x100B+B + 15s (sw 1:42 pace)
300sw,3x100B+B + 15s (sw 1:43 pace)
200sw,2x100B+B + 15s (sw 1:40 pace)
100sw,100B+B + 15s (sw 1:40 pace)
4x50 fast on 60 (42,43,45,44)
200 choice easy

First time in the pool in a while and sure enough I'm rusty on speed. The fast 50's were nowhere close to the sub40 I can usually do in my sleep. However, the longer stuff is solid and thats a consequence of where we are in the season. B+B is a useful exercise.

RJM85

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Wed 3,100m swim

200sw,200p,100k
4x50 des 1- 4 on 60 (43,44,44,42)
400sw,4x100B+B + 15s (sw 1:42 pace)
300sw,3x100B+B + 15s (sw 1:43 pace)
200sw,2x100B+B + 15s (sw 1:40 pace)
100sw,100B+B + 15s (sw 1:40 pace)
4x50 fast on 60 (42,43,45,44)
200 choice easy

First time in the pool in a while and sure enough I'm rusty on speed. The fast 50's were nowhere close to the sub40 I can usually do in my sleep. However, the longer stuff is solid and thats a consequence of where we are in the season. B+B is a useful exercise.

B+B?

Kurt_Godel

RJM85 wrote: »

B+B?

Band and Bouy.

A number belt makes a great band.

RJM85

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Band and Bouy.

A number belt makes a great band.

Ah. I'd prefer the other meaning. The one with bacon.

pgibbo

Are you going to Lough Key?

Kurt_Godel

pgibbo wrote: »

Are you going to Lough Key?

I've entered, but its a fair distance to travel. Hope to go- will you be there?

Wed PM 60 min turbo

175W average, mostly in TT position. 5*20s sprints between 400-450W.

griffin100

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

I've entered, but its a fair distance to travel. Hope to go- will you be there?

Wed PM 60 min turbo

175W average, mostly in TT position. 5*20s sprints between 400-450W.

Might see you there, but like you say it's a long way away and I only collect my new piece of Italian carbon on Friday and don't fancy jamming it into a bike rack on Sunday!! Running out of chances to get a tri in this year though, will be my first year in 8 seasons I haven't done one.

pgibbo

Yes, I'm entered. 2nd tri of the season with the first being last weekend :pac:

Kurt_Godel

Thurs 30 min turbo

Plan:
5 easy
4x(1 HC, 30sec easy)
4x(30sec build, 30sec easy)
5x(3 305W, 2 easy)
5 easy

Actual:
5 easy
4x(1 HC, 30sec easy)
4x(30sec build, 30sec easy)
3x(3 290W, 2 easy)

I struggled to keep to FTP for 3 min blocks today- don't know why, but everything was a lot harder than it usually is. With the race on Sunday I bailed on the session.

Dory Dory

Looks like there will be a few of you boardsies at the sprint on Sunday! What fun!! Can't wait to hear who comes out of the water first....who has the best flying dismount....and who crushes the run. The only thing better than the artistically detailed report we all will be expecting is if you could surprise us with a photo or two of some of the boards' celebrities. :)

Kurt_Godel

Fri 45 min easy hill run; 1,800m swim

The run was a recce for a hill race I'm organising next weekend. Lots of recent felling and general destruction of the forestry, but its all beautiful in its own way, and nature has a way of reclaiming her land. Lots of varied terrain; should be an interesting race.

Swim:
200sw,200p,100k
2x50 as 25fs, 25sw
2x50 as 25fist
4x50 des 1-4 on 60 (45,46,43,41)
5x100 10 sec faster than race pace , + 30sec (1:26, 1:29, 1:30, 1:29, 1:28)
4x50 fast on 60 (40,41,40,41)
200 choice easy, backstroke and breast

Felt much more at home in the pool tonight, a good feel for the water. My pull was a lot better than it has been, and these were solid times without huge effort. Good.

I'm unsure about travelling to Lough Key on Sunday. Junior has the start of a cold, its a very long way and I'm feeling a bit jaded, and wifey has mentioned the dreaded IKEA word. We'll see how it pans out, the long journey is the real pain. If it was just down the road I'd do it, but a 460km round trip is less tempting...