Leaving Cert History Project

Liverpool4cup

Does anyone know the following :

Does it matter if you go over the 1200-1500 word limit by about 100 words?

How long should the outline plan be?

How long shoud evaluation of sources be?

Do you need to quote your references in the extended essay?

And is the word limit just the extended essay and review of research process?

LCBanter

Going over by 100 words is an issue,and yes you need to quote your references as far as I know.

BlueWolf16

I'll give a word count for my project that I had last year (Higher level, assassination of JFK) =

Outline plan : 279
Extended Essay + review of process : 2657 (312 just review)
Evaluation of sources : 370

This is some draft I found on my pc, though I'm pretty sure you could take off about 100+ words of extended essay. I got a B1 overall, and I remember slightly messing up one of the questions, so I'm fairly confident the project was A-standard. The word count seems massive when I look at it now, but I definitely had no problem fitting it all in, I think I even had over a page left blank. In my opinion it should only be a problem if you have a shortage, rather than too much. Best asking your teacher, but I can tell you mine had no problem, and many in my class went over the limit.

Yes you do need to quote your sources in the extended essay. If it's a website, writing (according to blablabla.com) is enough, and if it's a book, (‘History of Music‘ by Jimmy McMuffin, 2013), ie. name of book (if it's a long title, just write the first few words so that it's clear which one), by whom, and date of publication. You don't need to mention your sources after every sentence/paragraph, but try to mention it every 2-3 paragraphs to show that you did use the sources, and if it's a quote.

hotmail.com

There is no penalty for going over the word count. If you go massively under it, the examiner will take that into account when deciding on the marks. There is no need generally to write over the limit as a candidate can get full marks with 1,500 words. If anything an extremely long essay may have the effect of annoying an exhausted examiner, but they cannot dock marks for that.

There is only a requirement to list your sources in the outline plan and then to evaluate them in the evaluation of sources section. The actual idea of using footnotes etc within the extended essay isn't necessary or required. Some students may well try to impress the examiner by including footnotes, but it is entirely optional and probably has no impact on the outcome of your mark.

Liverpool4cup

If it doesn't matter going over 1500 words , what does it say 1200-1500 words.

Also , if Im quoting how do I do it

Do I do it like:
" James Dean was the biggest in Hollywood " ( James Dean : A biography - Walter Brown - P35 )
Or like
" James Dean was the biggest in Hollywood " (s1)

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Liverpool4cup wrote: »

If it doesn't matter going over 1500 words , what does it say 1200-1500 words.

Also , if Im quoting how do I do it

Do I do it like:
" James Dean was the biggest in Hollywood " ( James Dean : A biography - Walter Brown - P35 )
Or like
" James Dean was the biggest in Hollywood " (s1)

It says there is a limit, but there isn't a penalty for going over it. So yes, it does seem like a contradiction, but it is unfair to dock marks if someone has written an excellent essay but has gone over the limit.

Examiners just want the students to write 1,500 words because of all the reading. Some students will write 3,000 words in total and this can frustrate the examiner, but they still can't penalise a candidate for that.

My advice is to leave out footnotes altogether to be honest. They aren't needed at all and to avoid the stress of including them. I wouldn't advise you using too many quotes either unless they are appropriate to the context of the point you're making.

Kremin

Most people in my class went well over the 1500 limit, all you include in this wordcount is the extended essay and review of the research processes.

i think how they count the words is to find the average words per line on a page and just multiply that number by the lines on the page.. my teacher also said they're only ever told to count about 1 in 30 papers for a word count.

spurious

The Chief Examiner's report of 2011 (the most recent one available to the public) mentions people going over the word limit, so they most certainly do notice.
'Select and reject' is a major skill in History and going over the word limit shows a candidate does not have that skill.

It also mentions properly quoting sources. Worth a read.

Their comments on the RSR start on page 7 of this: https://examinations.ie/archive/examiners_reports/LC_History_2011_Chief_Examiners_Report.pdf (.pdf)

hotmail.com

spurious wrote: »

The Chief Examiner's report of 2011 (the most recent one available to the public) mentions people going over the word limit, so they most certainly do notice.
'Select and reject' is a major skill in History and going over the word limit shows a candidate does not have that skill.

It also mentions properly quoting sources. Worth a read.

Their comments on the RSR start on page 7 of this: https://examinations.ie/archive/examiners_reports/LC_History_2011_Chief_Examiners_Report.pdf (.pdf)

That's certainly true, but as long as there is no penalty attached to going over the word limit, lengthy essays will do just fine.

Every year the examiners bitch about the length of the RSRs in order to encourage future years to write less and it never happens.

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Kremin wrote: »

Most people in my class went well over the 1500 limit, all you include in this wordcount is the extended essay and review of the research processes.

i think how they count the words is to find the average words per line on a page and just multiply that number by the lines on the page.. my teacher also said they're only ever told to count about 1 in 30 papers for a word count.

AFAIK, this is not a task examiners do. Teachers often give misleading advice to students to scare them into writing perfectly.

I suspect many examiners probably don't even look at the word count.

spurious

It goes to the general impression of the paper and would come into play where OMs are involved.

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spurious wrote: »

It goes to the general impression of the paper and would come into play where OMs are involved.

It doesn't and it can't as there is no penalty for writing over the limit. Therefore examiners aren't allowed to dock marks if the essay goes way over the limit.

The chief superintendent's remark was merely an observation i.e. that the students write way over the limit.

spurious

More than an observation, the CE's reports in any subject should be taken as advice to teachers.
Admittedly, I have not corrected the RSR for a few years, but I do correct (and externally monitor) research work in another subject and too long of a report in that subject would certainly be an issue that would result in lower marks.

hotmail.com

spurious wrote: »

More than an observation, the CE's reports in any subject should be taken as advice to teachers.
Admittedly, I have not corrected the RSR for a few years, but I do correct (and externally monitor) research work in another subject and too long of a report in that subject would certainly be an issue that would result in lower marks.

There is no penalty for going over the limit and it is completely untrue to say it results in lower marks. Examiners have to mark the RSR on merit and can't penalise in any way, because the essay goes over the limit. Case closed. I marked them last year. The first thing we heard was that we couldn't penalise if the students went over the limit. The RSR of the student we marked in the conference had a word count of over 3,000 words. It was excellent and received full marks.

The superintendent's report reflected a general annoyance among examiners at the length of the RSRs and that examiners have to read it. Until they introduce a penalty for writing over the limit, students can write more. Teachers are advised that they tell students that 1,500 words is enough to get full marks.. i.e. to take some stress off the students. Unfortunately some students aiming for the really high mark, will exceed the limit, when they really don't have to.

The_Valeyard

No penalty for going over 1500 words.

Footnotes optional. They do look neat, tidy and professional if done correctly at end of essay, not bottom of page.

Quotes where needed but not large chunks taking up near a paragraph length, etc

Careful of key personalities even if not covering that topic on the course. (Can be done, just pick a precise and narrow focus not mainstream issue)

Avoid multicoloured pen usage.

Try to avoid similar topic already done by member of class.

Pick something easy to research and write about that genuinely interestes you.

Do not make up authors or books, it's easily spotted and checked.

Liverpool4cup

Alright thanks for the help.

Should I write the project in the real booklet out in pen or pencil.

spurious

Pen.

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Liverpool4cup wrote: »

Alright thanks for the help.

Should I write the project in the real booklet out in pen or pencil.

Blue pen and write it neatly, using print writing if possible.