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Naas Chat Thread

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    #1022
    HonalD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭HonalD


    tallpaul wrote: »
    beertons wrote: »
    I see they're getting rid of the free parking on a Saturday now.

    FFS... At this stage it is a study in how to kill the lifeblood of a town. Someone in the future will be able to base their pHD on Naas and how it was slowly strangled to death by County Council incompetence and apathy.
    You do know that it is the politicians elected by the residents of Naas that made this decision?


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    #1023
    Doodah7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭Doodah7


    HonalD wrote: »
    You do know that it is the politicians elected by the residents of Naas that made this decision?

    You do know that elected councillors usually vote on matters put forward by unelected council officials?


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    #1024
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Uncontrolled free parking is a death nell for any town.

    The issue is all the prime parking spaces get taken up by workers who leave their cars in same space all day.

    That negates any advantage of free parking and usually means less parking is available.

    A low fee such as 50c with a 2 hour limit would be better.


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    #1025
    Doodah7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭Doodah7


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    Uncontrolled free parking is a death nell for any town.

    The issue is all the prime parking spaces get taken up by workers who leave their cars in same space all day.

    That negates any advantage of free parking and usually means less parking is available.

    A low fee such as 50c with a 2 hour limit would be better.

    That's fine, but the issue is Saturday parking...


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    #1026
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    tallpaul wrote: »
    That's fine, but the issue is Saturday parking...

    And Saturday staff in their cars.

    On top of cars left from night before when people are in restaurants and bars.

    I used to be involved in a retail group that had several town centre stores in the UK.

    They hated free parking for this reason and were able to prove that low cost parking was far more beneficial to retail stores.

    No use having free parking when no spaces are available.

    Good example is Liffey Valley - have a look at 9.30 on a Saturday morning with hardly any customers in the centre. Hundreds of spaces closest to doors are filled. Check at 4pm - same cars in same spaces. But as they have thousands of spaces its less of an issue than a town centre.

    One fact I do remember is a shopper's space is used for av 45 minutes - in a shopping day that's over 10 shoppers for one space. If that's taken up by an all day parker, that's 10 customers lost.


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    #1027
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,050 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    But staff will have to park Saturday anyway? ?? I don't get your point?


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    #1028
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,050 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    You can't use an example like Liffey Valley here. There is also the negative message it sends out when a place like Naas suddenly reapplies pay parking. It angers both retailers and shoppers. I also don't see your point rear staff. Don't staff park during week also.

    You can talk about economics of it all but for a struggling main street like Naas there are other factors to take into account


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    #1029
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    But staff will have to park Saturday anyway? ?? I don't get your point?

    When free parking is available more staff use cars and park as close as possible to their place of work.

    Where charges and time restrictions are in place those that have to drive will park where less restrictions are in place (secondary spaces)

    Consumers by their nature want to park as close as possible. If they have to park in secondary spaces, many will go elsewhere.


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    #1030
    Doodah7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭Doodah7


    I'm sorry but are you sure you know the layout of Naas? The car parks that have had free Saturday parking are not in a retail park. They are standalone lots that allow someone to park and take a short walk into the town to conduct their business at their leisure without worrying about the meter. A nice bit of lunch or a browse in a boutique for example. It is not the case that workers in Naas on a Saturday (or any other day for that matter) are hogging all of the spots near the front door of some mall or supermarket.

    The whole point of bemoaning the fact that the Council are going to get rid of free parking in Naas on Saturdays is that it will encourage people to shop elsewhere, like Liffey Valley or Tesco Monread where there is free parking, rather than spending their hard earned on their doorstep in Naas town. You are talking about free parking acting as a disincentive to shoppers, this is the exact opposite!!


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    #1031
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    tallpaul wrote: »
    I'm sorry but are you sure you know the layout of Naas? The car parks that have had free Saturday parking are not in a retail park. They are standalone lots that allow someone to park and take a short walk into the town to conduct their business at their leisure without worrying about the meter. A nice bit of lunch or a browse in a boutique for example. It is not the case that workers in Naas on a Saturday (or any other day for that matter) are hogging all of the spots near the front door of some mall or supermarket.

    The whole point of bemoaning the fact that the Council are going to get rid of free parking in Naas on Saturdays is that it will encourage people to shop elsewhere, like Liffey Valley or Tesco Monread where there is free parking, rather than spending their hard earned on their doorstep in Naas town. You are talking about free parking acting as a disincentive to shoppers, this is the exact opposite!!

    I know the layout of Naas very well.

    Maybe its the one town that doesn't conform to what is accepted by most retailers and staff of shops don't use the prime spaces to the detriment of customers.

    But to think someone will go and travel to liffey Valley to save 50c is crazy. Fuel costs money and time is precious.

    Edit - I'm saying a small charge of 50c for two hours. Nothing excessive, but such restriction prevents all day parking and enchances business.


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    #1032
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,050 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    Eh, think you are missing the point. No one is suggesting that people will travel long distances to avoid a "50 cent...." charge. Not sure why that is coming into your argument. It's merely suggesting. But psychologically many wouldn't be arsed heading to a town with the issue of pay parking and they will avoid the convenience of the town, even just to browse around (which almost inevitably leads to a purchase) and if they need something they will pick it up elsewhere,.

    You are thinking more of the economic aspect of town planning, the mentality of consumers is more apt approach when it comes to a dying main street like Naas.


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    #1033
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    Eh, think you are missing the point. No one is suggesting that people will travel long distances to avoid a "50 cent...." charge. Not sure why that is coming into your argument. It's merely suggesting. But psychologically many wouldn't be arsed heading to a town with the issue of pay parking and they will avoid the convenience of the town, even just to browse around (which almost inevitably leads to a purchase) and if they need something they will pick it up elsewhere,.

    You are thinking more of the economic aspect of town planning, the mentality of consumers is more apt approach when it comes to a dying main street like Naas.
    Naas retail issues are a lot more than some parking issues.
    Ease of access is one area that Naas needs to change.

    On any given day it can take 10min to 30min to get through a very small area - longer if there's a funeral walk.

    Trim is an excellent example of how to manage a growing town and revitalise the centre with a bypass that suits the traffic flow.

    Get the through traffic away from the town, similarly push carpark exiting traffic to the bypass and you're on the way.

    But kildare is not known for progressive planning - Maynooth, Athy, Newbridge and Naas are all choked with traffic and all in kildare.

    Parking is the least of Naas' issues.


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    #1034
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,050 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    No one said it was. But that doesn't make it something to just brush over.
    I've lived in around Naas all my life. I know the issues it has.

    Bringing Liffey Valley Shopping Centre into it has no bearing on the specific issue resolved Naas parking.

    There hasn't been all the problems you are suggesting lime staff taking spaces and people leaving car overnight to any near serious level so apart from council greed the decision to reverse the free parking well outweighs any pros to same decision.


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    #1035
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    We'll agree to disagree.

    On other news, I have heard that McGuirks Golf are opening in Naas.

    Don't know location yet, but set for later this year.


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    #1036
    Magilla Gorilla
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭Magilla Gorilla


    Why should Naas have free parking when other towns in the county don't?


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    #1037
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,050 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    Magilla Gorilla wrote: »
    Why should Naas have free parking when other towns in the county don't?

    Many towns similar size and in similar situation retail wise to Naas have free parking on weekends.

    It's not a "why should they have them when we don't : scenario. Other town councils have no impact on Naas. Each location is taken in merit of its individual situation


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    #1038
    Magilla Gorilla
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭Magilla Gorilla


    But it's one council area. You refer to the greed of the council, but only if it affects Naas?


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    #1039
    radharc
    Registered Users Posts: 966 ✭✭✭radharc


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    Many towns similar size and in similar situation retail wise to Naas have free parking on weekends.

    It's not a "why should they have them when we don't : scenario. Other town councils have no impact on Naas. Each location is taken in merit of its individual situation

    I'm not aware of many towns with free parking on Saturdays? It would certainly be the exception rather than the norm.


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    #1040
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 17,988 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    Is it possible to get into Naas racecourse in the evening to use the outside walking track for running?

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #1041
    HonalD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭HonalD


    tallpaul wrote: »
    HonalD wrote: »
    You do know that it is the politicians elected by the residents of Naas that made this decision?

    You do know that elected councillors usually vote on matters put forward by unelected council officials?

    @tallpaul - your argument doesn't make sense. Yes proposals are proposed by professionally qualified staff and then either accepted, amended or rejected by the members.....who are democratically elected.

    Are you suggesting that politicians propose all matters and then vote on them......if that's what you wish to see then it sounds like you're looking for a different political country than Ireland.


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    #1042
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,805 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I'd honestly be happier with residents and councillors deciding based on some of the decisions made by the "professionals" in the permanent staff. I think North Kildare wouldn't be quite so neglected for starters; and we might have some sensible traffic decisions rather than "I know best" replies.


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    #1043
    HonalD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭HonalD


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    tallpaul wrote: »
    That's fine, but the issue is Saturday parking...

    And Saturday staff in their cars.

    On top of cars left from night before when people are in restaurants and bars.

    I used to be involved in a retail group that had several town centre stores in the UK.

    They hated free parking for this reason and were able to prove that low cost parking was far more beneficial to retail stores.

    No use having free parking when no spaces are available.

    Good example is Liffey Valley - have a look at 9.30 on a Saturday morning with hardly any customers in the centre. Hundreds of spaces closest to doors are filled. Check at 4pm - same cars in same spaces. But as they have thousands of spaces its less of an issue than a town centre.

    One fact I do remember is a shopper's space is used for av 45 minutes - in a shopping day that's over 10 shoppers for one space. If that's taken up by an all day parker, that's 10 customers lost.

    @ceilingfly - you are totally correct. Your comments are based on sound professional analysis of car parking habits and trends.

    All day Free parking on a Main Street in any town, on any day, in any country will result in staff always driving (when they have a car) and always parking as close to their work place. Basically, people are selfish when it comes to parking.

    As pointed out, that is a deliberate self-inflicted wound in their business case and potential for success as their customers have to park further away from the premises and then may not shop there at all, even if they want to shop there.

    Your example of Liffey Valley is clear visible proof that unless employees and business owners, self impose their own parking restrictions I.e. That they will agree to park away from their premises then of course they are damaging the accessibility to their premises. It's logical.


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    #1044
    HonalD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭HonalD


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    You can't use an example like Liffey Valley here. There is also the negative message it sends out when a place like Naas suddenly reapplies pay parking. It angers both retailers and shoppers. I also don't see your point rear staff. Don't staff park during week also.

    You can talk about economics of it all but for a struggling main street like Naas there are other factors to take into account

    Why is it a "negative" message? I for one am looking forward to getting the same chance of a short term parking space on Main Street on a Saturday as the other 5 mon-fri. That's a positive thing.

    Staff do park during the week but as there are cheaper alternatives to On-street parking which has a limited parking period during pay parking hours, they don't park close to their shops as much as they do when it is free.

    The poster has hit the nail on the head. Other issues are not relevant to this discussion. Free pay parking is not a good idea and has been proven to be so. End of discussion.


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    #1045
    HonalD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭HonalD


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    You can't use an example like Liffey Valley here. There is also the negative message it sends out when a place like Naas suddenly reapplies pay parking. It angers both retailers and shoppers. I also don't see your point rear staff. Don't staff park during week also.

    You can talk about economics of it all but for a struggling main street like Naas there are other factors to take into account

    Why is it a "negative" message? I for one am looking forward to getting the same chance of a short term parking space on Main Street on a Saturday as the other 5 mon-fri. That's a positive thing.

    Staff do park during the week but as there are cheaper alternatives to On-street parking which has a limited parking period during pay parking hours, they don't park close to their shops as much as they do when it is free.

    The poster has hit the nail on the head. Other issues are not relevant to this discussion. Free pay parking is not a good idea and has been proven to be so. End of discussion.


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    #1046
    HonalD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭HonalD


    L1011 wrote: »
    I'd honestly be happier with residents and councillors deciding based on some of the decisions made by the "professionals" in the permanent staff. I think North Kildare wouldn't be quite so neglected for starters; and we might have some sensible traffic decisions rather than "I know best" replies.

    But any that requires statutory approval is approved by elected members, often against the advice of the officials. But clearly, for example, asking to put a sign, is not a request that should be suggested and decided upon by politicians, or is there that much faith in our elected members, whether locally or nationally?


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    #1047
    HonalD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭HonalD


    radharc wrote: »
    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    Many towns similar size and in similar situation retail wise to Naas have free parking on weekends.

    It's not a "why should they have them when we don't : scenario. Other town councils have no impact on Naas. Each location is taken in merit of its individual situation

    I'm not aware of many towns with free parking on Saturdays? It would certainly be the exception rather than the norm.

    It would nice to see what towns have free parking as suggested by @the talking bread?


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    #1048
    HonalD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭HonalD


    tallpaul wrote: »
    I'm sorry but are you sure you know the layout of Naas? The car parks that have had free Saturday parking are not in a retail park. They are standalone lots that allow someone to park and take a short walk into the town to conduct their business at their leisure without worrying about the meter. A nice bit of lunch or a browse in a boutique for example. It is not the case that workers in Naas on a Saturday (or any other day for that matter) are hogging all of the spots near the front door of some mall or supermarket.

    The whole point of bemoaning the fact that the Council are going to get rid of free parking in Naas on Saturdays is that it will encourage people to shop elsewhere, like Liffey Valley or Tesco Monread where there is free parking, rather than spending their hard earned on their doorstep in Naas town. You are talking about free parking acting as a disincentive to shoppers, this is the exact opposite!!

    When you "it's not the case..."' is that your opinion or fact? My money is that it's based on your personal observation. You can validate this with the council then as they have surveyed who parks where and for how long in order to inform the decision making process.

    Your last point, as suggested by another poster is wrong.


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    #1049
    HonalD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭HonalD


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    I've lived in around Naas all my life. I know the issues it has.

    There hasn't been all the problems you are suggesting lime staff taking spaces and people leaving car overnight to any near serious level so apart from council greed the decision to reverse the free parking well outweighs any pros to same decision.

    Two quick things, your first point is a tiresome comment made by individuals to talk down, on occasions to other posters that somehow "you need to live somewhere to know what really happens". That is not a fair argument as parking behaviour is nearly identical in Ireland.

    Secondly, there has been a clear problem with Friday night overstays and all day Saturday parking. Again, the council has surveyed the area and proved this as part of this decision making process. So you are wrong to say that there are no problems.

    Lastly, what "greed" are you referring to because as far as I know, all local authorities reinvest any income that comes into their coffers and KCC doesn't run a surplus, otherwise they wouldn't need rates.


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    #1050
    HonalD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭HonalD


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    I've lived in around Naas all my life. I know the issues it has.

    There hasn't been all the problems you are suggesting lime staff taking spaces and people leaving car overnight to any near serious level so apart from council greed the decision to reverse the free parking well outweighs any pros to same decision.

    Two quick things, your first point is a tiresome comment made by individuals to talk down, on occasions to other posters that somehow "you need to live somewhere to know what really happens". That is not a fair argument as parking behaviour is nearly identical in Ireland.

    Secondly, there has been a clear problem with Friday night overstays and all day Saturday parking. Again, the council has surveyed the area and proved this as part of this decision making process. So you are wrong to say that there are no problems.

    Lastly, what "greed" are you referring to because as far as I know, all local authorities reinvest any income that comes into their coffers and KCC doesn't run a surplus, otherwise they wouldn't need rates.


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    #1051
    HonalD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭HonalD


    Sorry guys, don't know why it's double posting, I blame my fat fingers.

    Also apologies to the posters I have replied to, I do not accept your comments as being valid thus the number of replies. Blame it all on freedom of speech!


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