Mart Price Tracker

patsy_mccabe

jfh wrote: »

Fine herd of cows he had too, some reasonable prices

Ya, I thought they were nice. No overfeeding or fancy haircuts either. Deffo value there compared to other sales.

MIKEKC

Anyone know how dept are to be notified when renting cattle shed?.AIM only tells you what to do when transferring farm to farm, or b+b. No cattle on farm where shed is to be rented.

wrangler

MIKEKC wrote: »

Anyone know how dept are to be notified when renting cattle shed?.AIM only tells you what to do when transferring farm to farm, or b+b. No cattle on farm where shed is to be rented.

It is a farm to farm transfer isn't it, It's counted as two movements, in and out

MIKEKC

wrangler wrote: »

It is a farm to farm transfer isn't it, It's counted as two movements, in and out

Don't think so farm to farm I thought would mean transferring stock to other farmers herd. Read in journal that you can just rent shed. Not worried about movements, want to keep them in my own herd number

Grueller

MIKEKC wrote: »

Don't think so farm to farm I thought would mean transferring stock to other farmers herd. Read in journal that you can just rent shed. Not worried about movements, want to keep them in my own herd number

Is there stock from the other farmers herd in the same yard?

MIKEKC

Grueller wrote: »

Is there stock from the other farmers herd in the same yard?

No the other farmer has no stock at the moment . Won't have any until after I leave the shed

Grueller

MIKEKC wrote: »

No the other farmer has no stock at the moment . Won't have any until after I leave the shed

Couldn't see the need to transfer them then. I would clarify that with the dept though.

patsy_mccabe

A few local lads sharing slatted sheds. Risky if they get an inspection, I suppose.

patsy_mccabe

💥Brennan's 13th Annual Incalf springer sale💥

On at 7Pm in Balla Mart. Might be better watching than Home And Away !!:cool:

https://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/countdown-is-on/26525588

Danzy

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

💥Brennan's 13th Annual Incalf springer sale💥

On at 7Pm in Balla Mart. Might be better watching than Home And Away !!:cool:

https://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/countdown-is-on/26525588

There are some savage heifers in Home and Away.

patsy_mccabe

Danzy wrote: »

There are some savage heifers in Home and Away.

SuperTortoise

A lot of very nice heifers at Brennan's sale, some nice prices too!

patsy_mccabe

Some made 4 to €5K and a few of them 2017 with 5 owners. I just don't get it.

SuperTortoise

Good off farm jobs must be, it's not in suckling or beef anyways.

Base price

MIKEKC wrote: »

Anyone know how dept are to be notified when renting cattle shed?.AIM only tells you what to do when transferring farm to farm, or b+b. No cattle on farm where shed is to be rented.

It's a simple farm to farm movement/notification the same as if you were selling the stock to another farmer. The farm that you are renting I presume isn't registered within your registered DAFM herd domain/land area so therefore in your case it is classified as a off farm movement.

Albert Johnson

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Some made 4 to €5K and a few of them 2017 with 5 owners. I just don't get it.

From the report on the Journal's Snapchat account the most of them seemed to cross €2500 and a lot were €3000+. If those results were achieved last year it would be the talk of the country but it's become commonplace this year.

Was €5000 the record at O'Connors sale last year and it was considered madness at the time. He beat it several times this year and topped out at €9000. This jump has been similar for all classes of those fancy heifers. It seems that what previously would have been a €2500 springer is now nearer to €3500 and so on. It's not that many year's ago since it took an exceptional springer to cross €2000, you'd buy an average heifer for €1200-1500 at the time. You'd probably get nearly as much for any type of a commercial weanling then as now so you'd have to wonder where the interest is coming from.

josephsoap

Albert Johnson wrote: »

From the report on the Journal's Snapchat account the most of them seemed to cross €2500 and a lot were €3000+. If those results were achieved last year it would be the talk of the country but it's become commonplace this year.

Was €5000 the record at O'Connors sale last year and it was considered madness at the time. He beat it several times this year and topped out at €9000. This jump has been similar for all classes of those fancy heifers. It seems that what previously would have been a €2500 springer is now nearer to €3500 and so on. It's not that many year's ago since it took an exceptional springer to cross €2000, you'd buy an average heifer for €1200-1500 at the time. You'd probably get nearly as much for any type of a commercial weanling then as now so you'd have to wonder where the interest is coming from.

Yes exactly, does the weanling from the €3500 heifer ever make more than €700 - €800 at the same time.

If the calving went wrong you have just taken serious financial hit.

charolais0153

josephsoap wrote: »

Yes exactly, does the weanling from the €3500 heifer ever make more than €700 - €800 at the same time.

Of course it does, it's a bad weanling making 7 or 800, tune into the sale in stranorlar to see what they could produce

RobinBanks

Albert Johnson wrote: »

From the report on the Journal's Snapchat account the most of them seemed to cross €2500 and a lot were €3000+. If those results were achieved last year it would be the talk of the country but it's become commonplace this year.

Was €5000 the record at O'Connors sale last year and it was considered madness at the time. He beat it several times this year and topped out at €9000. This jump has been similar for all classes of those fancy heifers. It seems that what previously would have been a €2500 springer is now nearer to €3500 and so on. It's not that many year's ago since it took an exceptional springer to cross €2000, you'd buy an average heifer for €1200-1500 at the time. You'd probably get nearly as much for any type of a commercial weanling then as now so you'd have to wonder where the interest is coming from.

And the funny thing is they are not paying over the top prices for them breeding heifers bar the odd few that come from the big advertised sale. So there is Savage mark up selling on as springers

Bass Reeves

RobinBanks wrote: »

And the funny thing is they are not paying over the top prices for them breeding heifers bar the odd few that come from the big advertised sale. So there is Savage mark up selling on as springers

if these were stocks and shares we be heading into bubble territory. There was an article in the FI about a lad that had changed over to producing these heifers from commercial suckling. Maybe the BDGP has encouraged some lads to upgrade there cows as they see the benefits of a better weanling. However its maybe lads just chasing shadow' in the suckled game. I see around a few young lads that have taken over farms where suckling is the main enterprise starting to enter the pedigree game. I see one lad after buying a few pedigrees AA heifers and going bulling them at the moment. There is another lads that got into pedigree limousin's 3-4 years ago. I never understand the thinking as these are limited markets and it takes little to overcrowd them. In time they may accept there faith and buy a few dairy cross calves and bring them to stores for me:D:D

Just an add on I bought the rag this week for the first time in 7-8 weeks. There is an article in it regarding the stocking rate of dairy cows on milking platforms to 3.25cows/HA. Teagasc are already signposting it on new demonstration farms. The fear is it will become a condition of Bord Bia QA down the line(I presume they mean in 5+ years time). They mentioned that it would have implications for fragmented farms. It will also have implications for smaller dairy operations and limit there cows numbers. This has implications on payback time on dairy startups. Payback time will be years longer and put pressure on these businesses . The assumption up to now was these lads could access mire land in bally go backwards and keep plugging away similar to the way lads got around stocking rates over the years. As well done lads are farming land without maps on the dairy side and this will not be possible to continue either.

Hershall

Bass Reeves wrote: »

if these were stocks and shares we be heading into bubble territory. There was an article in the FI about a lad that had changed over to producing these heifers from commercial suckling. Maybe the BDGP has encouraged some lads to upgrade there cows as they see the benefits of a better weanling. However its maybe lads just chasing shadow' in the suckled game. I see around a few young lads that have taken over farms where suckling is the main enterprise starting to enter the pedigree game. I see one lad after buying a few pedigrees AA heifers and going bulling them at the moment. There is another lads that got into pedigree limousin's 3-4 years ago. I never understand the thinking as these are limited markets and it takes little to overcrowd them. In time they may accept there faith and buy a few dairy cross calves and bring them to stores for me:D:D

Just an add on I bought the rag this week for the first time in 7-8 weeks. There is an article in it regarding the stocking rate of dairy cows on milking platforms to 3.25cows/HA. Teagasc are already signposting it on new demonstration farms. The fear is it will become a condition of Bord Bia QA down the line(I presume they mean in 5+ years time). They mentioned that it would have implications for fragmented farms. It will also have implications for smaller dairy operations and limit there cows numbers. This has implications on payback time on dairy startups. Payback time will be years longer and put pressure on these businesses . The assumption up to now was these lads could access mire land in bally go backwards and keep plugging away similar to the way lads got around stocking rates over the years. As well done lads are farming land without maps on the dairy side and this will not be possible to continue either.

The Guys who are at this every yesr probably do ok but in years like this several others buy maidens to bull looking for a quick kill leading to over supply and poor prices.
As Baas says if springers were stocks theyd be a sell at the moment.

josephsoap

charolais0153 wrote: »

Of course it does, it's a bad weanling making 7 or 800, tune into the sale in stranorlar to see what they could produce

Never tuned into there - how do the prices fare?

Jd310

charolais0153 wrote: »

Of course it does, it's a bad weanling making 7 or 800, tune into the sale in stranorlar to see what they could produce

They seem to be going well, dont understand why there was a different auctioneer brought in for it when the usual man is as good as any in the country.

Grueller

charolais0153 wrote: »

Of course it does, it's a bad weanling making 7 or 800, tune into the sale in stranorlar to see what they could produce

It's still folly imo.
Allow a weanling make €1300. At €3000 for a springer that takes 2 and 1/3 weanlings to pay for her. Put her keep at €700 per year and that's €2800 in keep by the time she sells her fourth weanling.
Add her cost price and her keep for four years is €5800. The fifth years keep makes that €6500. That is 5 weanlings at €1300. So five years to break even.
They were 3 years old calving so now you have an 8 year old cow. Get 2 more calves leaving a €600 profit each is €1200 plus say €1400 cull cow price.
That is €2600 in profit after a 7 year keep and assuming an average price of €1300 which is an unrealistic average imo. Also it assumes a calf every 365 days and no losses. A lot of assumptions for a very small return.

patsy_mccabe

Its complete madness. Some at that sale won't calf till 4 years old. Sale at sixmilebridge last week had good suckler cows selling for circa 1400. Heard a local guy bought 10.
I know where I'd rather buy.

Grueller

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Its complete madness. Some at that sale won't calf till 4 years old. Sale at sixmilebridge last week had good suckler cows selling for circa 1400. Heard a local guy bought 10.
I know where I'd rather buy.

Sprinters or calves at foot?

MIKEKC

Base price wrote: »

It's a simple farm to farm movement/notification the same as if you were selling the stock to another farmer. The farm that you are renting I presume isn't registered within your registered DAFM herd domain/land area so therefore in your case it is classified as a off farm movement.

Wouldn't farm to farm movement mean putting stock into other farmers herd?. I just want to rent shed. Other farmer has no cattle

patsy_mccabe

Grueller wrote: »

Sprinters or calves at foot?

It was a complete dispersal sale for a guy going dairying. Cows were calving Feb March and continental types. All good types.

Base price

MIKEKC wrote: »

Wouldn't farm to farm movement mean putting stock into other farmers herd?. I just want to rent shed. Other farmer has no cattle

Has other farmer a bte herd number, if so then the cattle would need to move into his herd. If he doesn't have a herd number than you don't have a problem. Local man had a shed rented from another farmer a few miles away that didn't have any cattle. He had to take the cattle back out of the shed because the other farmer had been depopulated and wasn't suppose to have animals in the shed. He also has to have a full herd test.

MIKEKC

Base price wrote: »

Has other farmer a bte herd number, if so then the cattle would need to move into his herd. If he doesn't have a herd number than you don't have a problem. Local man had a shed rented from another farmer a few miles away that didn't have any cattle. He had to take the cattle back out of the shed because the other farmer had been depopulated and wasn't suppose to have animals in the shed. He also has to have a full herd test.

Thanks for the info. Other farmer has a herd number. Just doesn't have stock at the moment. Not depopulated

Albert Johnson

charolais0153 wrote: »

Of course it does, it's a bad weanling making 7 or 800, tune into the sale in stranorlar to see what they could produce

There's lots of emphasis on the could to be fair. Yes the springer could go on to produce numerous smashers and top the likes of carrick and stranorlar time and time again. However she could also loose the calf, have no milk, die, not go back incalf, breed poorly or experience some of the numerous other problems that can befall a suckler cow.

Yes all those things happen to cheaper springer's as well but I'd feel better taking €1000-1300 for a suckler cull that cost €1500 as opposed to €1500-1800 for one that cost €3000 plus. Another poster has outlined the time scale for payback in an earlier post and he's being optimistic if anything with his projections imo. More power to those at it as they obviously see some benefit out of it. As with most things in beef farming there almost certainly not dependent on the farming return's.

charolais0153

Albert Johnson wrote: »

There's lots of emphasis on the could to be fair. Yes the springer could go on to produce numerous smashers and top the likes of carrick and stranorlar time and time again. However she could also loose the calf, have no milk, die, not go back incalf, breed poorly or experience some of the numerous other problems that can befall a suckler cow.

Yes all those things happen to cheaper springer's as well but I'd feel better taking €1000-1300 for a suckler cull that cost €1500 as opposed to €1500-1800 for one that cost €3000 plus. Another poster has outlined the time scale for payback in an earlier post and he's being optimistic if anything with his projections imo. More power to those at it as they obviously see some benefit out of it. As with most things in beef farming there almost certainly not dependent on the farming return's.

There's a middle ground, get a fine heifer for 18 or 19 hundred that will produce far better calves than the ones that cost 1500, pinch of salt at them sales, lads buying for show game make it totally unrealistic,

Bass Reeves

charolais0153 wrote: »

Of course it does, it's a bad weanling making 7 or 800, tune into the sale in stranorlar to see what they could produce

I wouldn't agree with that. I more say it takes a great weanling to make much above 900 euro. You only have only look at the economics at present beef prices. At 3.6/kg of a base price no Suckler bred cattle are economical. An animal grading U= as opposed to R+ is not going to make a significant difference to profitability even taking better weight gain into account.

With the bull game now virtually history the idea that any Suckler weanling is worth above 2.5/kg is delusional. Consumer demand now requires cattle slaughter below 360kgs mainly and better grading cattle should be slaughtered at lower weight to achieve steak sizes ideally. This gives a maximum carcass value of 1.5-1.6k. How can you square that with a 1k weanling....averaging across heifers and bulls. TBH the 7-800 euro weanling looks too expensive as well.

Having said all that you really have to question some of the costs involved. IMO you should be able to keep a suckler cow for in or around 400euro. When you costs start to go above 500/cow you have to look at what you are doing

I can understand on poorer quality land where there are fewer options and longer winters you still have to look at management of the system. I think that for these farmers that the grass fed beef and traditional breeds maybe be an option long-term. AFAIK this has a 36 month age limit. It's quite possible that on these cattle QA may be paid up to this age limit. Using a dairy cross Lmx cow bred to AA or HE. It will a depend on the bonus for grass fed beef. But ideally you need a grass fed bonus if 30-60c/kg depending on time of year

charolais0153

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with that. I more say it takes a great weanling to make much above 900 euro. You only have only look at the economics at present beef prices. At 3.6/kg of a base price no Suckler bred cattle are economical. An animal grading U= as opposed to R+ is not going to make a significant difference to profitability even taking better weight gain into account.

Loads of lads, buying stores and weanlings, are of an older persuasion have plenty of money and will buy good calves and keep them occupied and keep the money turning, not making anything probably

One of my worst calves this year an average enough golden charolais heifer, 8 months old, 370 kg is making over 900

Bass Reeves

charolais0153 wrote: »

Loads of lads, buying stores and weanlings, are of an older persuasion have plenty of money and will buy good calves and keep them occupied and keep the money turning, not making anything probably

One of my worst calves this year an average enough golden charolais heifer, 8 months old, 370 kg is making over 900

On the way to my farm every day I pass a front of the road place. This lad finishes 30+ good Continental type cattle. For the last ten years you would see the weanlings arrive in the last month or six weeks, light 250-300kg weanlings. I was surprised 2 weeks ago to see a load of continental bullocks 500 kgs type with the mart stickers on there backs.

At some stage the economics change for everyone. Assumption is the mother in law of all cock ups

tanko

A lad beside me buys a hundred and four yearling FR store bullocks every year.
Two of the lads bullocks die every week so the lad never gets to sell any and the lad loses loads of money every year.
Some lads are just useless.

ruwithme

Why 104 tanko? must be 4 extra for luck.

tanko

There's 52 weeks in the year.

charolais0153

Bass Reeves wrote: »

On the way to my farm every day I pass a front of the road place. This lad finishes 30+ good Continental type cattle. For the last ten years you would see the weanlings arrive in the last month or six weeks, light 250-300kg weanlings. I was surprised 2 weeks ago to see a load of continental bullocks 500 kgs type with the mart stickers on there backs.

At some stage the economics change for everyone. Assumption is the mother in law of all cock ups

Sold 2 calves at home to a lad 950, he showed me dockets from same day at the mart 1300 avg and sold better cattle for 1400 the week before, they'll be big cattle next year, I wouldnt sya hes losing hand over fist

ruwithme

A lad over the road from here some years bck, bought 64 cattle one day in the same mart. They cost 50k.he was in the mart office paying anyway, when some lad quipped at him "ya bought a right few there the day" buyer says to him "ah sure they'll keep a few pound together anyway "

Ya man says back to him "would an elastic band not do the same thing "

Bass Reeves

charolais0153 wrote: »

Sold 2 calves at home to a lad 950, he showed me dockets from same day at the mart 1300 avg and sold better cattle for 1400 the week before, they'll be big cattle next year, I wouldnt sya hes losing hand over fist

If you are the average weanlings he is averaging 400/head for 12 months and has to take two transport and mart fees out if them he is at nothing. Cattle would need to be up on 650+kgs to make that he was probably pouring ration down there throat as well for 6-8weeks.

The lad that bought them was at nothing either. Those cattle would eat you out of house and home to over winter. To finish out of a shed getting beyond 1700euro over the last two winters has been a challenge. They be worst off than the Suckler farmers especially the weanling to store man unless he had nom losses.

Bass Reeves

tanko wrote: »

A lad beside me buys a hundred and four yearling FR store bullocks every year.
Two of the lads bullocks die every week so the lad never gets to sell any and the lad loses loads of money every year.
Some lads are just useless.

Well if FR stores die on him he not want to be buying anything else. If he cannot keep Fr stores alive he would not want to be buying Contenintal calves they die walking out of the ring in him

Limestone Cowboy

charolais0153 wrote: »

Sold 2 calves at home to a lad 950, he showed me dockets from same day at the mart 1300 avg and sold better cattle for 1400 the week before, they'll be big cattle next year, I wouldnt sya hes losing hand over fist

There's no big twist in them when you are keeping them for 12 months. You'd put 200 into them for the first winter to do them half right and summer them again after that. I wouldn't be too excited about it anyway.

sonnybill

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

There's no big twist in them when you are keeping them for 12 months. You'd put 200 into them for the first winter to do them half right and summer them again after that. I wouldn't be too excited about it anyway.

I’ve learnt Unless you planning to keep her as a cow then let her out the door straight off of the cow!! Lads on Better ground, blown in meal (not 25kg Bags) can winter them cheaper that first winter than me

patsy_mccabe

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with that. I more say it takes a great weanling to make much above 900 euro. You only have only look at the economics at present beef prices. At 3.6/kg of a base price no Suckler bred cattle are economical. An animal grading U= as opposed to R+ is not going to make a significant difference to profitability even taking better weight gain into account.

With the bull game now virtually history the idea that any Suckler weanling is worth above 2.5/kg is delusional........

Out of interest, what base price would be a break even price to make bull beef a runner again?
Would €4.00 do it?

Bass Reeves

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Out of interest, what base price would be a break even price to make bull beef a runner again?
Would €4.00 do it?

The main reason bull beef is not a runner is demand is not there. Then when beef is in surplus processors put yo to the back of the que. Rations have gone up 20-30/ton this year. For suckled beef to be profitable across beef and heifers you need a base above 4.5/kg at that base a 370kg bullock is netting nearly 1800 euro and a 330kg heifer is netting above 1500 euro.

My own opinion is that a grass fed beef premium along with atop up for suckling may help some suckler farmers. But it would mean a move away from Contenintal to HE and AA. If this added 70c/kg it would add 200euro to heifers 250 to bullock. However you cow cost. Would want to be 400/year and you want to be using Good AA or HE bulls not KYA types

Grueller

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with that. I more say it takes a great weanling to make much above 900 euro. You only have only look at the economics at present beef prices. At 3.6/kg of a base price no Suckler bred cattle are economical. An animal grading U= as opposed to R+ is not going to make a significant difference to profitability even taking better weight gain into account.

With the bull game now virtually history the idea that any Suckler weanling is worth above 2.5/kg is delusional. Consumer demand now requires cattle slaughter below 360kgs mainly and better grading cattle should be slaughtered at lower weight to achieve steak sizes ideally. This gives a maximum carcass value of 1.5-1.6k. How can you square that with a 1k weanling....averaging across heifers and bulls. TBH the 7-800 euro weanling looks too expensive as well.

Having said all that you really have to question some of the costs involved. IMO you should be able to keep a suckler cow for in or around 400euro. When you costs start to go above 500/cow you have to look at what you are doing

I can understand on poorer quality land where there are fewer options and longer winters you still have to look at management of the system. I think that for these farmers that the grass fed beef and traditional breeds maybe be an option long-term. AFAIK this has a 36 month age limit. It's quite possible that on these cattle QA may be paid up to this age limit. Using a dairy cross Lmx cow bred to AA or HE. It will a depend on the bonus for grass fed beef. But ideally you need a grass fed bonus if 30-60c/kg depending on time of year

Costs based on 40 cows off the top of my head and a 4 month winter
€150 silage
€50 for vet and dosing
€30 for straw (2 bales at €15 each for life backs and calving pens)
€30 for contractor (slurry, fym)
€30 for insurance
€40 for fertiliser for grassland
Meal for weanlings/ calves €70

That is €410 on a short winter with no meal for the cow, which imo she shouldn't get. I have included no cost for machinery depreciation, repairs, payments, maintenance, fencing, reseeding, lime, no hedgecutting in that contractors bill.
A suckler cow cannot be kept sub €400.

Dunedin

Grueller wrote: »

Sprinters or calves at foot?

Is a sprinter another name for limousine????

Danzy

Guessing it is a typo and he meant Springers.

Grueller

Dunedin wrote: »

Is a sprinter another name for limousine????

Or Parthenaise.