Mart Price Tracker

Anto_Meath

@Cavanjack you are right up to €2,80 /kg of O grade stores doesn't add up.

You should get more than 2% possibly nearer to 4% better kill out on a R+ / U grade animal but I tend to work on minimum so as to avoid disappointment, under promise and over deliver. Your cattle have done well, but as you say there is probable between €150 - €200 against them for the winter.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120154415#Comment_120154415

350 is a very poor dw for a continental bullock. Should be pushing 400 and over it by right.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120157357#Comment_120157357

It's immaterial what is or is not a poor DW for what's. A lot of lads finishing are turning cattle after 50-80 days. The margin is on the animal the day they buy it. They might buy a 550 kg bullock feed it 60 days on a TMR put 90 kgs on it and kill it at 640 kgs or about 350 DW. They are getting 20-50c/ kg more than your or I alot of the time but they must produce animal to a factory specifications that is generally carcasses 280-380 kgs ( ideally 330-350). They decide the market.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120155138#Comment_120155138

It's all relative. The Charlois off Friesians will tend to be quieter than suckler bred ones. Older farmers that summer graze often perfer them to suckler bred cattle. As well they can perform very well if they have entry of grass in a low set stocking situation. Over a long grazing season they will often outperform suckler bred stock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120157647#Comment_120157647

It’s a bad year to be buying cattle to finish if they are that dear in January.

At 350 they would want to finished off grass. If a farmer is feeding significant amounts of meal to get them to that weight after paying that kind of money then there wouldn’t be much of a margin.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120157981#Comment_120157981

You really have a very limited understanding of the system. Feedlots and selected finishers are working to contrated prices often.

In late June when the processors pull the price to you and me they will hold the a price for them that could be up to 50c/kg more than you or I will get. These guys get paid to feed ration.

I am not having a go but your understanding of the beef business and the way it works is really limited.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158073#Comment_120158073

If feedlots are paying those kind of prices then well and good.

You are having a go. My point is I can’t see how farmers could make a profit paying those kind of prices. Even if they get 50 cent extra then that’s only 175 on your 350 example. I mean how does that pay if paying 1500 now? Factor in the cost of silage for the remaining winter and the labour involved.

I have nothing against dairy bred stock. Did a few of them this past 12 months. None of them were near 30 months.

Robson99

Is there any better value buying lighter cattle that could be finished in summer 24 even if they were over 30 months ? Cannot justify giving € 3.30 a kg for 550 kg stores that wont be fir for slaughter until Sept / October.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158098#Comment_120158098

For the last three years summer grazers have won. The earlier they bought the bigger they won. These lads can afford to gamble.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158138#Comment_120158138

Even after the third winter? You might get a bit of value later in the year say around July.

I can’t see the value in the current market. Like if dairy cross bullocks are making that kind of money with say 40% of the winter left? Where is the margin?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158166#Comment_120158166

I am not sure if you understand. Summer grazers buy in spring and sell in the Autumn.

It's the cheapest 40%( if even that) of the winter. Feed no meal only silage often outside with maybe a certain amount of grass.

For the last three years the autumn prices has been as good or better than the January price.

2020 a 900 euro store turned into 14-1500 euro

2021 an 1000 euro store turned into 15-1600 euro

2022 an 11-1200 euro store turned into 1800-2k

2023 at 15-1600 euro they will still make money at 2022 prices.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158166#Comment_120158166

Rule 1 never keep long term cattle, it doesn't matter what margin they leave. No 2 kill before the price collapse. You will win.

Many say it's a gamble (which it is), what I have found it's the only game in town.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158240#Comment_120158240

I would imagine those buyers at that price have a guaranteed buyer and price in place. They might get a higher base price like you said and I would imagine are feedlots.

Silage is dear though. Those cattle must be coming up on two years sure most farmers buy yearlings.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158290#Comment_120158290

I would not agree about long-term cattle. Everyone to their own system. In a low cast system wintering is not a substantial costs.

Look at a lad doing yearlings to beef. He could be buying 250 kg HE bullocks for 6-700 and selling lads for 1700 at present.

You would buy nice Friesians yearlings 250-300 kgs for 500ish euro. If you hang them at 340-360 this June/ july at a guess you be hitting 1750-1900 euro.

There was a lad doing calf to beef with friesian's hitting 360 DW at 28 months on here last year. He would have his pick of Friesians calves at present for 50 euro. He was running a low cost system. Will he 1K a unit out of it this year.

I saw a neighbour sell nice Friesians last September 450 kgs for 750. I taught he should have held them.

grange mac

Every animal is dear this year.

Bandon had dairy chx cross 110kg ish making 530 last mon.

Gortatlea has 300kg chx easily making 1000 tonight.

500kg looking at 1500 for decent chx...

As long as factory hold prices it affects all other cattle.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158290#Comment_120158290

Freisian bullocks probably have to be kept to around 30 months though to hit the mid 300 kg dw weights.

I agree that getting your stock away at the optimum price allows you to pick up a bit of value when the annual price dip happens.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158358#Comment_120158358

Ya most farmers by yearlings but there is still a good few doing summer finishing. Like I said you have no understanding of the different systems. Go away and pay for LSL premium if you have not got it. Spend a few evenings going through the different sales.

@kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158453#Comment_120158453

I said it before the secret is feed efficient stock in my opinion. Also, ideally get stock away at the highest price.

I also think this is a particularly bad year to be buying fancier say 2021 born cattle to finish etc.

You say I have no clue but you don’t see me keeping stock over 30 months or for a third winter. I agree with @kk.man about keeping stock over time being a gamble.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158386#Comment_120158386

Bass the calf you be buying now for 50e isn't much of a yoke and won't hang at 360kgs at 28 months.

I do yearlings to beef also, but last year the costed me 880 AVG 400kgs fr. They might have been that price in the south west but not on the se.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158509#Comment_120158509

I say it again you have no understanding of systems outside you own. You cannot visualise outside of that. If we all followed your theory all cattle would be killed from maybe early October to June.

Price is all relative to cost. You have absolutely no understanding of the advantages of carrying an animal a full grazing season. Turning cattle has a cost. To bring an animal onto a farm if paying for transport is costing 30+/ head when including mart fees. The slaughter costs is a bit more. That 70+/ head. It takes time to buy cattle and it can take time to get them slaughtered.

Lads turning cattle 4-5 times a year have 1-3 bunches that there is little it no margin in.

By the way there is nothing efficient about a cow rearing a calf a year not toin the Irish statistic of 0.8 calves weaned/ cow/ year.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158569#Comment_120158569

One month old Fr bull calves O grades IMO were selling today in Listowel for 40 euro.

The same in Gortnalea tonight even a seven week old Fr calf 70 euro.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158600#Comment_120158600

I did well on on some dairy bred stock in the last 6 months and got them away on average just under 24 months. I have nothing against them. Freisians can turn a few quid too but they take longer. You run a tight ships costs wise and are able to source them cheap as yearlings.

I said it before the lads weaning .8 calves to the cow should be scanning, improving mortality and taking any necessary measures as those figures are poor.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158613#Comment_120158613

I don't doubt you. I don't buy calves (not for years) but I doubt you'd get an O grade month old calf up my way for 40e. What you'd get is a je cross.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158636#Comment_120158636

I am at this game long enough these are O grade Friesian. Most O- but O grade all the same . Kerry would not be noted for JE breeding.

I think Killmallock is much the same last Monday.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158651#Comment_120158651

I see on done deal a dealer near me who operates on small margins but volume. From the pictures he would have no fr less than 100e. I'm not saying Kerry have je calves.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158665#Comment_120158665

I did not see the bit about ''up my way''.

This time last year those early month old calves would have been 100 more. Maybe the boat will put a floor on them I suspect not.

Lots of lads that bought early calves last year were sorry they did not wait until March. However IMO there is a massive difference between a Dec born calf and a Feb born one.

All the indications is dairy bull calves will be cheaper this year

Danzy

Serious money involved now.

One always needed the year to go well but the downside to a bad year now is frightening.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158789#Comment_120158789

Ya you are looking at 50 fancy stores costing 70+k.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158789#Comment_120158789

Hopefully we get a short winter and no drought. The last few months have been very wet.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158816#Comment_120158816

At least there is a real lift in grass growth. Around here in the very North West of Cork, grass lifted last January. What it grew in March and April, even the first few days of May was very poor.

Fine Day

Often buy in Friesian bullocks here. Of all breeds we have had over the years from the very worst (including Jersey) to the best the Friesian bullock have probably average out with the better margin when sold. Give them Abit of time and kill of the Grass later in the summer and under 30 months. In recent years I find it very difficult to get a have decent Friesian. There is alot of either jersey or Holstein in them and they can grade very poor when killed. You could give days in a mart to pick up a half decent bunch and that a time cost also. I know a few lads have gone away from them particularly the ones I know that do bull beef.

Is the British Friesian a thing of the past as I have not had or seen one in a long time. They were a good animal to take weight.

Cavanjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159102#Comment_120159102

Have given up fattening either friesian bulls or bullocks here this last few years. Very hard to get a good one.

With the price of meal the only bull that’s worth feeding is a good one. Failing that it’s a lesser one at the right money.

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120157735#Comment_120157735

No way should any dairy bred cattle outperform suckler bred stock. If they do, then the issue is with the quality of the suckler cow.

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62A8D869-228C-4190-A7B7-8655958CC33C.jpeg

Jonnyc135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159225#Comment_120159225

Fair play, thats massive money €2680 being the highest and €1930 being the lowest.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159225#Comment_120159225

Fair play Dunedin, you’re keeping good stock. That’s a lot more like what’s to be expected from suckler bred than the figures that do be given on here and them suckler bred would have eaten far less than any friesian, in either grass, silage or meal. You couldn’t keep a friesian fed.

Generally the lads with the friesian’s like to compare the very best of the friesian’s with the worst of the sucklers.

I put up kill sheets here before too with 26-28 month old heifers killing up to around 435 kgs and they hadn’t €200 of meal ate, I’d take that over a friesian that needs a ton of meal any day of the week.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159279#Comment_120159279

That's all very well if you are breeding suckler charley beef but when you are like me I cant make a margin on them (most years) so I have to revert to FR cattle. I'm not in anyway proud but I am practical. If you bought the above suckler cattle i dont think you would last long as an independent trader between feedlots and 'posh' farmers they are welcome to them. There would probably be a margin in them long term but i prefer short term cattle. I know i am not much use to the suckler beef man but that's the market.

In and around Kilkenny there is a good bit of British Friesian in dairy herds. I have had some and they are fantastic animals. I have to say when crossed with HO is not the end of the world either.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159506#Comment_120159506

I’ve no cows, all my stock are bought in. I wouldn’t be in any way proud and certainly not “posh” either. I have O- grade hex eating at the same barrier as U+ limousines, there’s no favourites in this yard!

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159279#Comment_120159279

Them cattle would have got very little meal. 1kg over their first winter (4 months as stop meal 1 before before turnout) and then 2kg 6/7 weeks before killing so around 150kgs in total - around €60-70 a head max. No meal in second winter and finished off grass under 30 months

on good grass on a paddock set up. They’d be moved every 5-7 days depending on growth. Farm is also in one full block which is a massive help

I’ll never deny there is a lot of work with sucklers between calving, tagging, dehorning, getting calves going, weaning, etc. but they always leave a margin for me so don’t accept the blanket line that sucklers lose money.

equally I don’t run down other systems either as you work to suit yourself and your set up.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159582#Comment_120159582

DBK1 not suggesting you are the above. I'm just saying I cant make a margin out of fancy stock as the ringside prices are mad. If cattle had to remain at 4.80 would you have made a margin to justify such stock? This year is unusual the winter finisher will get rewarded as the is a price rise of 50c between now and last November.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159225#Comment_120159225

I go back to it every system is different. It's very hard to procure the type of cattle you produce. Less that 20% of suckler bred cattle are that quality O imagine. IIfyou breed that type of animal you would be crazy to sell them you should take them to slaughter.

The advantage of a FrXCh is his ability to consume grass. While not as efficient as your or as a Ch off a HE or an AA cow he will eat a sight more grass every day.

There are lads out there farmers with no children or children not interested in farming. On a sixty acre farm they might buy 40 bullocks in the spring and will keep all summer long. They will take a a cut of silage but the rest of the time they want cattle to consume grass

Those big ChXFr will often keep gaining up on 2kgs/ from late March to mid August maybe a tad more at time. Your nice efficient top quality animal will not do that as he will not keep the quality in the grass as he will not eat enough of it.

He will hang 10 in August, another ten in September and the last will be hung throughout October early November. I know a lad that used to do similar with friesian's as well until he was over 80.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159599#Comment_120159599

At todays ringside prices it’s hard to see how money will be made, factory prices can’t keep rising forever. But that is equally the case for any grade of stock at present. Store friesian’s are making over €2 per kg, hex and AAx are anything from €2.50-€2.80, someone has to get burnt eventually. The excellent profits that are currently being made from stock bought 12 plus months ago may need to be retained to cover the loss that could be made whenever factory prices drop and the current expensive stores and weanlings are being killed at a loss.

I never get too hung up on profit per head, obviously you want that figure as high as possible, but one man could be making €200 per head and his enterprise could be more profitable than the lad that’s making €800 per head. If the €200 man is turning over cattle in 90 days and the €800 man is keeping them for 18 months to get that then the €200 man is far more profitable. Profit needs to be measured against more than one factor, say profit per head per year, or profit per head per acre per year to have a true value. To go further then I’d even say an average over a few years should be looked at as there are so many peaks and troughs in beef prices that if you were to change your system every time your profits change you’d be on a different system every few months.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159688#Comment_120159688

I completely concur with you on this post. I'm like your 200e per head man in the above example.

There is a burning coming its only when it will happen.

Bass Reeves

If you are only making 200/ head gross in any turnover unless you are going direct to the factory with cattle you are at nothing.

Mary and slaughter fees now exceed 20/ head. Transport costs for a lad in the Marts two days a week is probably hitting 20 per head. Bigger jeep bigger trailer.

Sold my 8X5 box 15 years old and bought a 10X8 late last year. Difference was 3700 euro. Only put a few tyres on the old box. RAV dose 39 mpg without the trailer and 26 with it on. Have it four years next summer cost me 7k and only put front shocks, rear droplinks, a wiper motor other than general servicing.

Those lads that are turning cattle ever 3 months live in Mart's, it's there full time job. Where they make most of there money is buying factory fit cattle and slaughtering them. They cleaned up on cows last year's.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159896#Comment_120159896

I never said or suggested it was a gross figure.

k mac

Have 12 nice heifers, 8 limousine with 3 charollais and 1 angus, average 345 kilos and average 17 months old. What would they make now in the mart or at home, thinking of off loading if prices are strong. Are would i be better waiting until the 7 month men are buying in march/april.?

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159688#Comment_120159688

Agree with most of the above but it all boils down to a system that suits the farmers setup and off-farm commitments. To handle such a flow of cattle you need great housing, handling and transport facilities (I don't have). Buying cattle I find is very time consuming also.

I have a full time job Mon-Fri and its not feasible with my setup to be constantly in and out with cattle. I buy middle of the road HEX/AAX/FR/LMX yearlings in Mar-May at 300-330kg and kill the following May-Jul at 350kg+ DW with on average less that 120kg of ration fed. Very little work with them once they get used to the setup and very little risk as I'm not buying expensive stores.

You'd have a better profit/head/acre but you also have higher level of investment both in terms of time and money.

Cavanjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159506#Comment_120159506

My grass bullocks last back end left a margin of over €1050. They were on the farm less than a year, had one winter and ate €100 of meal before finishing.

I killed suckler bred bulls at Christmas that left a margin of €1350. They were on the farm 9 months and ate a little over a tonne of meal.

No friesian that I could buy around here would do that.

KAMG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120160225#Comment_120160225

This is exactly the same system I have. And I buy 80% of my yearlings from the same man each year. Last year, my average sale price was over €1,800 and average purchase price was €700.

Now, this year, those that averaged €700 last year are all to be sold off grass, hopefully from late May on. I have Nil in meal costs. All silage and grass here. I hope to have over half gone by end of June. The big unknown at the moment is the cost of this years yearlings.

I buy mostly HEX or AAX. A few LMX and the odd JEX. Its only a hobby for me really. I have long ago figured out that the less time you spend farming, the more profit you make.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159896#Comment_120159896

i was referring to profit as in what you have left after cost’s. Mart and slaughter fees, jeep and trailer etc. would all be classed as expenses so would be accounted for before you get your profit figure.

You may be confusing gross and net profit.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158440#Comment_120158440

These prices in January. Tough for a buyer.