Mart Price Tracker

Bass Reeves

Albert Johnson wrote: »

It's not much money for what's a fair weight of a heifer, once you go into those sort of weights anything over €2kg seems a bonus at the minute. The lighter animal is more in demand imo, maybe lads are looking at long term stock and hoping to weather any price crisis in the medium term. There was a bunch of reared HEx and BBx heifer runners circa 120-150kg made from €315 to €600 (rough average €400) last night, it's hard to justify putting stock into big weights when you see what those sort of mice are making in comparison.

Send two heifers to the factory last week one an 0+3+ 305kgs and the other an R=3+ 307kgs . The first one netted 1102 euro and the second one 1178 euro after deduction but before transport. LW they be about 580 and 570kgs. That would be near enough the factory price for her.

Never wrestle with pigs

kk.man wrote: »

Cull cows and cull ewes are still good money...it doesn't make sense.

How are 600/700 kg Continental cows going that will feed for another few months?

Pidae.m

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

kk.man wrote: »

Cull cows and cull ewes are still good money...it doesn't make sense.

How are 600/700 kg Continental cows going that will feed for another few months?

There was good blondes on fermoy Tues, long tight very bare and dried off. 700kg 1070ish

Albert Johnson

[quote=Never wrestle with pigs;
How are 600/700 kg Continental cows going that will feed for another few months?[/quote]

Either side of €1.50kg for goodish young store type cow's atm here in the North West. Older or poorer types are from there weight to €1.20kg up depending on cow type.

Albert Johnson

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Send two heifers to the factory last week one an 0+3+ 305kgs and the other an R=3+ 307kgs . The first one netted 1102 euro and the second one 1178 euro after deduction but before transport. LW they be about 580 and 570kgs. That would be near enough the factory price for her.

I agree Bass that it's roughly the price of her with they way beef is currently but it's not an inspiring return by any means. July should be a summer peak price month imo before the autumnal glut arrives to market. If those sort of prices are all that can be maintained at present then I dread to see what quotes will be available in a few months time.

I was always of the opinion that the factories conspired to give the lowest price that could sustain finishing cattle so that the beef would be available all year round while still maintaining the maximum processor margin. However I'm beginning to think they want to drive Irish beef producer's out of production and import lower cost and more profitable product from elsewhere. The last few months has really put the tin hat on the whole situation imo and they're making no attempts to hide the fact that Irish beef production is only getting in the way of there plans. Once south American beef or wherever else is flavour of the month starts coming into the EU I think it will sound the death knell for us entirely, not that the few of us that's left will be that dejected by then that I don't think anyone​ will even notice.

Who2

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

How are 600/700 kg Continental cows going that will feed for another few months?

Sold a third calver last week 670kg at 1240 and a bad lim bull weanling 360kg at 860. Where the price of beef is at I wasn’t complaining.

wrangler

Was anyone at the suckler clearance sale in tullamore last monday night, my neighbour sold cica 60, most with U and E grade calves and 4 and 5 star themselves. Last time I was talking to him he was thinking of dairying

Waternotsoda

What are friesans bull/bullock calves 6-10 month old making now. 200-250kg

Bass Reeves

Waternotsoda wrote: »

What are friesans bull/bullock calves 6-10 month old making now. 200-250kg

They would be great calves to be that weight at that age. In general calves that are well done continue to do well. I suspect that calves like that would make 1.5/kg maybe a tad more. But I have seen Fr spring born calves on DD for 260 euro but may not be as well done.

Waternotsoda

Bass Reeves wrote: »

They would be great calves to be that weight at that age. In general calves that are well done continue to do well. I suspect that calves like that would make 1.5/kg maybe a tad more. But I have seen Fr spring born calves on DD for 260 euro but may not be as well done.

A more realistic weight be 180kg. About €260.

Nobbies

With the price of finished beef where it is today and who knows with brexit yet to happen if there's more off a fall to come?
where should the price of the weanling be in the months ahead?

Fireside Solicitor

Well looking out 6 months is hard enough never mind 12-18 months but around 1.50 kg would make more sense

Welding Rod

Fireside Solicitor wrote: »

Well looking out 6 months is hard enough never mind 12-18 months but around 1.50 kg would make more sense

Gas how finishers wail, whimper, and cry because Larry forces a price on them, which doesn’t leave a margin considering their costs.
No problem to turn around when the opportunity arises, to offer a below cost of production to the weanling producer😱
So shortage of Little Larry’s in this little country of hours.
But hey, we live in a market economy, so we got to roll with the punches.

Bass Reeves

Welding Rod wrote: »

Gas how finishers wail, whimper, and cry because Larry forces a price on them, which doesn’t leave a margin considering their costs.
No problem to turn around when the opportunity arises, to offer a below cost of production to the weanling producer��
So shortage of Little Larry’s in this little country of hours.
But hey, we live in a market economy, so we got to roll with the punches.

Most suckler/store producers fail to understand that most lads finishing cattle work on a margin, most of my margin is because I am good to get weight on cattle. I buy Friesian bullocks the margin I operate at and I am always open about this is about 200-250/head. To carry a store Friesian to finish from August to the following June-August costs 350/head. A 380-400kg store bought in mid August will kill about 330kgs DW the following summer in an average year.

At present such an animal is struggling to make 1100 euro. That means I can afford to pay about 500-530 for that type of store at present. If prices were at 4/kg the bullock would make about 1250 so I could afford to pay 650-680 for the same bullock. That the way the system works. The reasons that finishers see a huge issue with the autumn suckler trade are not only because of the poor beef prices, processors have also stated that they do not want over 16 months young bulls.

Some lads took an awful burning on them last winter and compounded it by letting them go over 24 months. most lads doing this these 16-24 month bulls were buying the lesser quality lighter weanling. One lad held two pens until 4-6 weeks ago. He took 3/kg for them and they averaged a small bit with 1450 euro. They consumed about 2 ton of ration each, along with straw and silage, not to mind time and labour. What can he afford to pay for replacements. If he took no margin on replacing them he could afford to pay no more than 600/head for these bulls at 250kgs including commission and transport fees.. He is planning on squeezing next years ones when the weather cools down a bit. Last week he bought 30 friesian bull calves for 220 each as he has too many bills to pay.

Like I have said to many here it is immaterial to me the beef price I jut take a finishers margin. Mine is a 12 month system my plan is to finish 58-60 bullocks and make a profit of 12-13K if I can. If my margin is going below 10k I reduce stock levels, there is no way I can see it exceeding 14K. In general in a poor or exceptionally strong market I find I make the lowest margin. When prices are 3.8-4/kg the market works best for me

If lads think they can pay more than me or that I am creaming it they can finish them themselves.

wrangler

Welding Rod wrote: »

Gas how finishers wail, whimper, and cry because Larry forces a price on them, which doesn’t leave a margin considering their costs.
No problem to turn around when the opportunity arises, to offer a below cost of production to the weanling producer��
So shortage of Little Larry’s in this little country of hours.
But hey, we live in a market economy, so we got to roll with the punches.

And that's why I say have a chat with yourself before you ever give €100 for a calf again. Huge opprtunity there to cut costs, dairy farm have to get rid of them

Robson99

Welding Rod wrote: »

Gas how finishers wail, whimper, and cry because Larry forces a price on them, which doesn’t leave a margin considering their costs.
No problem to turn around when the opportunity arises, to offer a below cost of production to the weanling producer��
So shortage of Little Larry’s in this little country of hours.
But hey, we live in a market economy, so we got to roll with the punches.

I suggest any weanling producer who thinks finishers are whingers to have a go at it themselves... any system they want... bulls heifers bullocks...
Most of them weanling producers who think finishers are whingers are the same lads who would carry a cow empty for 12 months just cause she produces a good calf or were the same lads whould whinged about a shortage of fodder last winter but wouldnt pay 250 for a ton of barley to stretch their fodder out a bit .
Believe me there are no little Larry's in the smaller finisher

Fireside Solicitor

I’d be happy to let the weanling men take over the finishing and good luck to them. A lot of finishers have been unwittingly subsidizing them for a while now because they didn’t know their own game well enough

Who2

This is great another division starting between weanling producers and finishers, I know and so do most that the finishers need to make a margin too and to be straight everyone from suppliers to finishers need a touch, even Larry needs a bit. We don’t need communism but it needs to be spread a little more about.

older by the day

I don't finish. But I kept a big tall lanky fr bullock. He will be 30months in october. How much would I lose if he's not fit by then. Is the board bia bonus for him.

Water John

The feckers just grow in their own time, impossible to speed them up.

Bass Reeves

older by the day wrote: »

I don't finish. But I kept a big tall lanky fr bullock. He will be 30months in october. How much would I lose if he's not fit by then. Is the board bia bonus for him.

Forget about BB bonus let him carry the weight. If you have to let him until next June so be it

Water John

That's the advice of a professional. This was my first time having them and it's a dear lesson learned for me. Tried pushing some while finishing other cattle last winter. They only grew one way and that was, up.

CloughCasey1

Water John wrote: »

That's the advice of a professional. This was my first time having them and it's a dear lesson learned for me. Tried pushing some while finishing other cattle last winter. They only grew one way and that was, up.

Trick is buying them at 550kg for small money and keeping them the year. Anything near 600kg and bigger finishers get interested. He won't grade 0+ and even if he did the gremlins in the grading lottery machine would sort that + to a - sharpish! 35mts and 360days will pay you well without any pampering but good grass, minerals and quality silage.

Bass Reeves

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Trick is buying them at 550kg for small money and keeping them the year. Anything near 600kg and bigger finishers get interested. He won't grade 0+ and even if he did the gremlins in the grading lottery machine would sort that + to a - sharpish! 35mts and 360days will pay you well without any pampering but good grass, minerals and quality silage.

No the time to buy a friesian is in June-August from 300-400kgs if you are good to put weight on at grass. Overwinter on silage and back to grass. The quality of the Fr at present is better than lads think. If factories are stuck for cattle( not this year you always win. Anything over 420 kgs starts to rise in price exponentially, i do not understand the fad with heavy friesians

CloughCasey1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

No the time to buy a friesian is in June-August from 300-400kgs if you are good to put weight on at grass. Overwinter on silage and back to grass. The quality of the Fr at present is better than lads think. If factories are stuck for cattle( not this year you always win. Anything over 420 kgs starts to rise in price exponentially, i do not understand the fad with heavy friesians

Fr is a bad seller locally anywhere up to 550kg in weight. May be different down your side. Fierce value at 300-400kg but you'd nearly be sneaking into a second winter to get them into big killout weight. I got bid 600 for a 410kg fr at mart in April and sold for 1060 for same 630kg beast in August off good grass only, before I started finishing everything. Maybe I should go back to that gig. He was a nice fleshy type in fairness.

Butcher Boy

just called into skib today for a look the nice ch bull around 300kgs running into 800 no bother, plenty men there for the boat.

yewtree

Surely this is a terrible price. That calf needs a 700kg cow to produce him. €800 has to cover the costs of both cow and calf. Its very hard to see how long sucklers can keep going with those returns

Buford T. Justice XIX

yewtree wrote: »

Surely this is a terrible price. That calf needs a 700kg cow to produce him. €800 has to cover the costs of both cow and calf. Its very hard to see how long sucklers can keep going with those returns

Add another 20% onto that figure as only 80% of sucklers that calved this year will calve next year.

grassroot1

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Add another 20% onto that figure as only 80% of sucklers that calved this year will calve next year.

Well not on this farm its calve or die here. I wonder if with the exodus from sucklers if its not time to recheck those figures. I expect some of the high carry over herds have left suckling

Buford T. Justice XIX

grassroot1 wrote: »

Well not on this farm its calve or die here. I wonder if with the exodus from sucklers if its not time to recheck those figures. I expect some of the high carry over herds have left suckling

Tbh, that's the national figure for successive calvings so you'd have to have questions about the suitability of a lot of cows and heifers calving down to be the future breeding stock of the national herd. And it hasn't really changed in a number of years either.

And the average age at first calving is 31 months as well so there doesn't seem to be a breeding plan there to calve at the most profitable time. If dairy stock can be brought to bulling weights on grass and ration, how does a suckler heifer need an extra 7 months to go in calf and calve down?

There'll be a lot of change in numbers kept once the requirements to keep cows for the BDGP ends but there's fundamental issues jumping out there about the basic foundation for a profitable industry, isn't there?

grassroot1

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Tbh, that's the national figure for successive calvings so you'd have to have questions about the suitability of a lot of cows and heifers calving down to be the future breeding stock of the national herd. And it hasn't really changed in a number of years either.

And the average age at first calving is 31 months as well so there doesn't seem to be a breeding plan there to calve at the most profitable time. If dairy stock can be brought to bulling weights on grass and ration, how does a suckler heifer need an extra 7 months to go in calf and calve down?

There'll be a lot of change in numbers kept once the requirements to keep cows for the BDGP ends but there's fundamental issues jumping out there about the basic foundation for a profitable industry, isn't there?

Oh I agree with what you say but am amazed the figure never moves. Do you think the converts to dairy are calving at 31 months?
There is a large cohort of pedigree beef animals that skew the figure though.
Not forgetting the "special incalf heifer sales" in the west.
Anyhow my apologies this is a mart price thread

Dozer1

Was at the special sale in Gortalea last night. Missed the 50 autumn calving cows but heard they ranged 1300 to1600 ish good big ch cows. After those was 30 pb lims most with papers no engagement with most of them from weanlings to old cows with big horns and most made only factory price younger stock from 900 to 1100 or so. Cows 1100 to 1500. Stock Bull made 1780

Hard Knocks

grassroot1 wrote: »

Oh I agree with what you say but am amazed the figure never moves. Do you think the converts to dairy are calving at 31 months?
There is a large cohort of pedigree beef animals that skew the figure though.
Not forgetting the "special incalf heifer sales" in the west.
Anyhow my apologies this is a mart price thread

A heifer isn’t fully grown until their 3yo
I calved heifers at 24 & 36 months, the 1 at 36 months is fully grown and will feed the calf better
The 24 month old is still growing and feeding a calf which will require better management

I know dairy herds who also calve at 36 months reason that the 24 month is too small in the parlour

Everyone has their ways & logic for age of calving

Anto_Meath

Hard Knocks wrote: »

A heifer isn’t fully grown until their 3yo
I calved heifers at 24 & 36 months, the 1 at 36 months is fully grown and will feed the calf better
The 24 month old is still growing and feeding a calf which will require better management

I know dairy herds who also calve at 36 months reason that the 24 month is too small in the parlour

Everyone has their ways & logic for age of calving

Thats it, I perfer to calve heifers around 26 months if I can, so my Feb born heifes calve in April. But as I try to have all caved by the 1st of May any April born heifers I will carry over to Calve at 34 months in Feb. The younger heifers i give AA to but the older onse get LM as they are stronger and better able to calve the LM.

older by the day

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Thats it, I perfer to calve heifers around 26 months if I can, so my Feb born heifes calve in April. But as I try to have all caved by the 1st of May any April born heifers I will carry over to Calve at 34 months in Feb. The younger heifers i give AA to but the older onse get LM as they are stronger and better able to calve the LM.

I'm a bit like that too. It's nice to have the heifer not to weak, they don't ever grow after calving. The cull rate in some dairy farms is up to 20% that prob the difference, the sucker man is more lightly to keep the empty

Bass Reeves

Hard Knocks wrote: »

A heifer isn’t fully grown until their 3yo
I calved heifers at 24 & 36 months, the 1 at 36 months is fully grown and will feed the calf better
The 24 month old is still growing and feeding a calf which will require better management

I know dairy herds who also calve at 36 months reason that the 24 month is too small in the parlour

Everyone has their ways & logic for age of calving

However most research shows that heifers that calve at as 3 year old will last in the herd less time. This has been shown in both dairying and suckler herds. In sheep research shows that ewe's lambed down at 12 months again last longer in the flock and are more proflic than ewe's lamed at 24 months.

The economics in a small margin business of carrying a heifer 1 year longer before calving down just there. Most of it is down to management. Getting the heifer to a bulling weight at 13-15 months and calving at 22-24 months. Any well bred suckler heifer (Continental breeding) should be well capable of hitting 380-400kgs at 13-14 months of age and a calving down weight of 650kgs. Yes she will still be growing but all mammals breed before they are fully mature in the wild

Its all about management, I was at the mart today and saw Friesians bullocks from 330-615 kgs at 18-19 months of age. The weight difference is not all down to genetics.I saw FR/JE bullock weighting over 400kgs.

Keeping a Heifer 12 months longer will cost 250-300 euro minimum. Spread over an average breeding span of 6 calves that's an extra 40-50 euro/calf in costs. This just showed the skewed economics of sucklers. In dairying no farmer in a grass based system can afford an 80% calving ratio, neither can they afford to carry over cows.

Albert Johnson

yewtree wrote: »

Surely this is a terrible price. That calf needs a 700kg cow to produce him. €800 has to cover the costs of both cow and calf. Its very hard to see how long sucklers can keep going with those returns

I'm in agreement about the costs involved in producing those weanlings but I don't think circa 300kg @ €800 average is any better or worse of a price than any year tbh. It's circa €2.70kg which would be good enough going for a bundle of continental type bull weanlings this early in the season imo. As to whether those prices justify keeping the cows I'm not sure but I can't say that I'd expect much more for the end product. I'm talking about herd averages including the best lads sold now and the last stragglers cashed in Christmas week, across the board it's not too bad in my eyes anyway.

orm0nd

Bass Reeves wrote: »

However most research shows that heifers that calve at as 3 year old will last in the herd less time. This has been shown in both dairying and suckler herds. In sheep research shows that ewe's lambed down at 12 months again last longer in the flock and are more proflic than ewe's lamed at 24 months.

The economics in a small margin business of carrying a heifer 1 year longer before calving down just there. Most of it is down to management. Getting the heifer to a bulling weight at 13-15 months and calving at 22-24 months. Any well bred suckler heifer (Continental breeding) should be well capable of hitting 380-400kgs at 13-14 months of age and a calving down weight of 650kgs. Yes she will still be growing but all mammals breed before they are fully mature in the wild

Its all about management, I was at the mart today and saw Friesians bullocks from 330-615 kgs at 18-19 months of age. The weight difference is not all down to genetics.I saw FR/JE bullock weighting over 400kgs.

Keeping a Heifer 12 months longer will cost 250-300 euro minimum. Spread over an average breeding span of 6 calves that's an extra 40-50 euro/calf in costs. This just showed the skewed economics of sucklers. In dairying no farmer in a grass based system can afford an 80% calving ratio, neither can they afford to carry over cows.

Good Post. No room for carrying passengers for 12 months on most farms.

Besides the economic benefits, research has shown that heifers and sheep have far better mothering instincts when bred at a younger age and more likely to produce higher milk yields for their lifetime.

Dunedin

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Keeping a Heifer 12 months longer will cost 250-300 euro minimum. Spread over an average breeding span of 6 calves that's an extra 40-50 euro/calf in costs. This just showed the skewed economics of sucklers. In dairying no farmer in a grass based system can afford an 80% calving ratio, neither can they afford to carry over cows.

It often comes down to individual preference/circumstances. Farmers like having strong cows in the herd that can take bigger bulls which will calve easier and ultimately be more profitable on weanling/beef sales.

One important thing to note. I sold three cull cows this year. Two were ones that calved at three years old and the third calved @24 months - first two averaged €1500 and got €1000 for third. Not factoring in middling calves out of her too.

So deeper analysis is required but I’m sticking to 28-30 months here at the minute.

tellmeabit

Anyone in Gortatlea last night? how were they going?

bogman_bass

grassroot1 wrote: »

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Add another 20% onto that figure as only 80% of sucklers that calved this year will calve next year.

Well not on this farm its calve or die here. I wonder if with the exodus from sucklers if its not time to recheck those figures. I expect some of the high carry over herds have left suckling

Those are the very lads that will hold on the longest. Set in their ways, know nothing else, they’re the ones that will keep plodding along until they are in a pine box.

It’s the bigger suckler farms that are going dairying not the small ones.

bogman_bass

This think of wanting to put a stronger bull on heifers is a cop out. A 3 year old 2nd calver will always calve easier than a 3 year old heifer. You could put a jersey on her and you still would be better off.

As for them not growing, the ones that calve at 24 months here are every bit as big as those calving at 30 months by they time they hit maturity.

cute geoge

What are purcel paying for weanling fr bulls for export https://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/friesian-bulls-wanted-for-export/22714478
I have only 2 about 220 kg nice quality .

mahoney_j

cute geoge wrote: »

What are purcel paying for weanling fr bulls for export https://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/friesian-bulls-wanted-for-export/22714478
I have only 2 about 220 kg nice quality .

Ring the number .....

cute geoge

mahoney_j wrote: »

Ring the number .....

I got talking to one of purcells men a few weeks back bit i have forgot again ,something small along with €/kg i think he said

Waternotsoda

Popped into the mart today. Alot of heavy charolais bullocks 600kg - 750kg making roughly €2 a kg.

lalababa

Waternotsoda wrote: »

Popped into the mart today. Alot of heavy charolais bullocks 600kg - 750kg making roughly €2 a kg.

WTF?? Tell me I'm wrong....
750kg@2euro =1500 at mart.
@50% kill out ...
375kg@3:50base=1312
What's going on there??

Anto_Meath

Yes I can't really understand it either, noticed it in the local mart recently too. Heavy cattle are making as much and any bit of quality is making more than they would in the factory. Who did I notice buying all these cattle - Factory agents or Feed lot "farmers" who seem to have pre-arranged prices with the factories....

Robson99

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Yes I can't really understand it either, noticed it in the local mart recently too. Heavy cattle are making as much and any bit of quality is making more than they would in the factory. Who did I notice buying all these cattle - Factory agents or Feed lot "farmers" who seem to have pre-arranged prices with the factories....

Of course it was. They would rather give it in the mart than at the factory

dzer2

Robson99 wrote: »

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Yes I can't really understand it either, noticed it in the local mart recently too. Heavy cattle are making as much and any bit of quality is making more than they would in the factory. Who did I notice buying all these cattle - Factory agents or Feed lot "farmers" who seem to have pre-arranged prices with the factories....

Of course it was. They would rather give it in the mart than at the factory

This is the way to control the factories get them to weight or close and let them buy them in the mart.