ass to floor vs parallel

tommyboy26

ever since i started squating i have tried to get my ass as close to the ground as possible and can go fairly low.

i have noticed im practically the only one in my gym i have seen doing this. most go parallel and stop.

am i doing it wrong?

what are pros/cons of each?

TB26

Alf Veedersane

You're not doing it wrong but there are a few reasons that people won't squat lower than parallel.

They don't 'need' to, i.e. they're training to squat to the depth they squat when competing. Squatting to parallel but not much lower will allow you to lift heavier than ATG (well, typically).

They might not have the hip and/or ankle flexbility to go lower without compromising form and rounding their lower back a lot.

There might be the odd hangover from 'squatting below parallel is bad for your knees' nonsense.

If you can squat ATG properly, keep at it. You'll increase the glute activation the lower you go.

Greenmachine

When I lifted I always went ass to the grass. Squat was still my strongest lift, of the three core lifts I did.(Dead, Bench and Squats)

tommyboy26

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

They don't 'need' to, i.e. they're training to squat to the depth they squat when competing. Squatting to parallel but not much lower will allow you to lift heavier than ATG (well, typically).
.

i have been stuck on 70kg for a while now would parallel for a while help increase strength?

tommyboy26

Greenmachine wrote: »

When I lifted I always went ass to the grass. Squat was still my strongest lift, of the three core lifts I did.(Dead, Bench and Squats)

my squat is lowest

deadlift 150
bench 85
squat 70

Alf Veedersane

tommyboy26 wrote: »

i have been stuck on 70kg for a while now would parallel for a while help increase strength?

It might help you lift more but that's not to say it would necessarily increase strength.

You'll likely be at a similar plateau but at a higher weight.

Have you dropped back the weight and increased your work at a lower weight or what way do you go about training your squat?

DoYouEvenLift

Disregard the half assers, that's like bringing the bar halfway to your chest on bench. If you feel comfortable trying to go deeper but feel like you actually can't then start doing stretches for your hip flexors and be consistent with stretching because it's really important to maintain flexibility once you achieve it otherwise you'll fuk yourself up when trying to do the same depth on squats without that flexibility. You should also play around with the width of your stance and also turning your feet out a little bit can also help. Would really advise getting some guidance in person from someone who you think squats well enough in your gym and take your time getting comfortable before going for any new PRs with the extra depth.


Watching some of the Olympic lifters videos on YouTube's good for getting an idea of how they're done properly. The benefits are obviously better ROM which means better gains (strength and size).

tommyboy26

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It might help you lift more but that's not to say it would necessarily increase strength.

You'll likely be at a similar plateau but at a higher weight.

Have you dropped back the weight and increased your work at a lower weight or what way do you go about training your squat?

i have tried a few different things. when i got stuck a few months back i dropped weight to 40kg and did 5 sets of 5 adding 5kg everytime i did squats so 40 then next week 45 etc etc got to 70 got 5 then 4 then 1 then none.

currently i try to spiral up. so i do bar alone for 12 reps then 40 for 8 50 for 8 60 for 8 70 for 5 lol

its just that number i cant beat it

tommyboy26

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

Disregard the half assers, that's like bringing the bar halfway to your chest on bench. If you feel comfortable trying to go deeper but feel like you actually can't then start doing stretches for your hip flexors and be consistent with stretching because it's really important to maintain flexibility once you achieve it otherwise you'll fuk yourself up when trying to do the same depth on squats without that flexibility. You should also play around with the width of your stance and also turning your feet out a little bit can also help. Would really advise getting some guidance in person from someone who you think squats well enough in your gym and take your time getting comfortable before going for any new PRs with the extra depth.


Watching some of the Olympic lifters videos on YouTube's good for getting an idea of how they're done properly. The benefits are obviously better ROM which means better gains (strength and size).

i use a fairly wide stance as it is and do stretch to keep my flexibility pretty good
have watch loads of video and like to think my rom and form are good.
training partner seems to agree

that's weird, you should easily squat more than you bench but I've seen this happen time and again alright.

you could try 20 rep squats?? then after a few weeks up the weight and lower back to 8's and you should see good gains. I could be wrong now but it used to work well for me.

otherwise I'm not sure, my heaviest squat was 100kg ass to grass slow down for 5 reps. that was my absolute best. Now I do loads of exercises or high volume. like leg press, one leg squats (pistols) swizz ball curls, lunges, stiff dead lift, machine curls etc. Just coz im 40 now is all. happy enough with my legs.

deadlybuzzman

tommyboy26 wrote: »

my squat is lowest

deadlift 150
bench 85
squat 70

That's an enormous gap to have between your squat and deadlift. Are you pausing between each squat rep and are you doing the same rep scheme for squats and deads?

tommyboy26

rusty cole wrote: »

that's weird, you should easily squat more than you bench but I've seen this happen time and again alright.

you could try 20 rep squats?? then after a few weeks up the weight and lower back to 8's and you should see good gains. I could be wrong now but it used to work well for me.

otherwise I'm not sure, my heaviest squat was 100kg ass to grass slow down for 5 reps. that was my absolute best. Now I do loads of exercises or high volume. like leg press, one leg squats (pistols) swizz ball curls, lunges, stiff dead lift, machine curls etc. Just coz im 40 now is all. happy enough with my legs.

i start my leg day with squats and then legs presses (220kg)

my leg press is alot higher than my squat

tommyboy26

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

That's an enormous gap to have between your squat and deadlift. Are you pausing between each squat rep and are you doing the same rep scheme for squats and deads?

i pause between squats and use same rep scheme for both. i should meantion there my max lifted ever. i got 4 reps of 150 deads. i can do 8 of 130

tommyboy26

i use a belt for deads but cant squat with a belt would that make much of a difference?

Alf Veedersane

What's a typical squat workout? Reps and weights.

deadlybuzzman

When you start to fail what goes 1st? Do you start to come up arse 1st, do your legs give out? Etc.
You're doing alot of reps before you get to your heaviest set too. If I'd did that I'd probably be wrecked by the time I got to the last set.
You could try doing a building up with a bunch of doubles working your way up just to get a better idea where you're at

tommyboy26

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

What's a typical squat workout? Reps and weights.

bar alone for 12- 15 reps for war up
rest 2-3 mins
40 kg for 8-12 reps
rest 2-3 mins
50kg for 8-12 reps
rest 2-3 mins
60kg for 8-12 reps
rest for 2-3 mins
at this stage im starting to feel pretty beat
70kg for as many as i can do usually 5 or 6 reps
rest 3-4 mins
70 kg for as many as possible usually 3 or 4 reps

tommyboy26

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

When you start to fail what goes 1st? Do you start to come up arse 1st, do your legs give out? Etc.
You're doing alot of reps before you get to your heaviest set too. If I'd did that I'd probably be wrecked by the time I got to the last set.
You could try doing a building up with a bunch of doubles working your way up just to get a better idea where you're at

what usually happens is i go down and i cant get back up.

training parter will give me a small lift to get me back up

Alf Veedersane

tommyboy26 wrote: »

bar alone for 12- 15 reps for war up
rest 2-3 mins
40 kg for 8-12 reps
rest 2-3 mins
50kg for 8-12 reps
rest 2-3 mins
60kg for 8-12 reps
rest for 2-3 mins
at this stage im starting to feel pretty beat
70kg for as many as i can do usually 5 or 6 reps
rest 3-4 mins
70 kg for as many as possible usually 3 or 4 reps

If 70 is your working weight, then drop the reps at the warm up weights. No need to do 8-12 at 50 and again at 60 if you're only using those sets to warm up for 70.

Do you go in with a 'plan' to do as many reps as possible for 2 sets at 70?

Does your training have any particular structure giving you some sort of week-on-week progression?

tommyboy26

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

If 70 is your working weight, then drop the reps at the warm up weights. No need to do 8-12 at 50 and again at 60 if you're only using those sets to warm up for 70.

Do you go in with a 'plan' to do as many reps as possible for 2 sets at 70?

Does your training have any particular structure giving you some sort of week-on-week progression?

my plan with all my exercises is usually 4 sets of between 8-12 reps with an upward progression in weight.
so the weight increases every set once i hit around 10 reps of the weight in the 4th set the next week i will start the weight in first set a little higher than the week before thus meaning all the weights will increase in the 4 sets.

not sure i explained that right?

Alf Veedersane

tommyboy26 wrote: »

my plan with all my exercises is usually 4 sets of between 8-12 reps with an upward progression in weight.
so the weight increases every set once i hit around 10 reps of the weight in the 4th set the next week i will start the weight in first set a little higher than the week before thus meaning all the weights will increase in the 4 sets.

not sure i explained that right?

I get what you're trying to say.

But you're not differentiating between warm up weights and working weights.

If I'm reading it right, when you get to 10 reps at 70, then you'd go in the next time and squat 45 x 8-12, 55 x 8-12, 65 x 8-12 and then try for 75 x 10?

You're hampering what you can do at your working weight, i.e. 70, by doing so much volume at 40, 50 and 60. They're only warm ups to prepare yo for your work at 70. If you want to be able to hit 10 reps at 70 then drop the volume you do at 50 and 60.

As it is you're knackered by the time you even get to 70.

tommyboy26

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I get what you're trying to say.

But you're not differentiating between warm up weights and working weights.

If I'm reading it right, when you get to 10 reps at 70, then you'd go in the next time and squat 45 x 8-12, 55 x 8-12, 65 x 8-12 and then try for 75 x 10?

You're hampering what you can do at your working weight, i.e. 70, by doing so much volume at 40, 50 and 60. They're only warm ups to prepare yo for your work at 70. If you want to be able to hit 10 reps at 70 then drop the volume you do at 50 and 60.

As it is you're knackered by the time you even get to 70.

thats exactly what i was trying to explain

i use to do striaght set but since i changed to this the weight has gone up and i have gotten some more gains.

squat is the only exercise that i have had this problem with.

maybe i should drop the rep range to 6-8?

Greenmachine

tommyboy26 wrote: »

my squat is lowest

deadlift 150
bench 85
squat 70

Are you using a squat rack or a smith machine?

tommyboy26

Greenmachine wrote: »

Are you using a squat rack or a smith machine?

Squat rack. Not a big fan of smith machine

Alf Veedersane

tommyboy26 wrote: »

thats exactly what i was trying to explain

i use to do striaght set but since i changed to this the weight has gone up and i have gotten some more gains.

squat is the only exercise that i have had this problem with.

maybe i should drop the rep range to 6-8?

It's the rep range at lower weights you probably need to drop.

What is the goal with squat? That dictates the rep range. Strength would be lower, hypertrophy/muscle building would be higher. What you're currently doing would be more towards the latter.

Greenmachine

tommyboy26 wrote: »

Squat rack. Not a big fan of smith machine

Have you tried changing your grip? Narrow grip or wide grip seem to suit you better if you haven't already tried either.

tommyboy26

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's the rep range at lower weights you probably need to drop.

What is the goal with squat? That dictates the rep range. Strength would be lower, hypertrophy/muscle building would be higher. What you're currently doing would be more towards the latter.

My overall goal is to lose weight and get stronger.

Im fairly new to lifting weights only 20 months at it.

A big thing for me would be able to bench and squat 100kg for 8 reps

tommyboy26

Greenmachine wrote: »

Have you tried changing your grip? Narrow grip or wide grip seem to suit you better if you haven't already tried either.

I have tried a wide grip and found it uncomfortable usually have my hands outside shoulder width

Alf Veedersane

tommyboy26 wrote: »

My overall goal is to lose weight and get stronger.

Im fairly new to lifting weights only 20 months at it.

A big thing for me would be able to bench and squat 100kg for 8 reps

Why 8 reps, out of interest?

tommyboy26

tommyboy26 wrote: »

i start my leg day with squats and then legs presses (220kg)

my leg press is alot higher than my squat

well what people forget is that you're inverted or parallel on the leg press.
When you do a NO weight squat remember you're lifting your body from the knees up anyway. so add this to the weight across your shoulders and I've always believed that's closer to your leg press now maybe?

so you weigh 80kg plus squat 100kg on the bar so perhaps you're actually moving 180kg through the ankles, knees , etc. I have always felt this is the case.

conzy

The leg press is also typically at a 45 degree angle so you are only lifting that weight / cosine 45

So 220kg on the legpress is like lifting 115kg vertically.

Either way if you can squat as deep as you say you can, mechanics / mobility doesnt seem to be a problem, Im guessing its just bad programming. How many days a week do you squat? And you seem to just do the exact same thing every session and hope that some day you'll get the reps in?

You need to test your max and follow a known sensible program for 6-12 weeks and try and beat your previous max.

id be interested to see your deadlift form actually.

papu

Candito made a video on this recently

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph9KCAU5D-0

Myself, I squat to just below parallel.

Its good to have the mobility to go ATG, hold pistol squats etc. But if you want to get strong lift the most amount of weight

Mellor

Too many warm up reps, foot pidition, habd positions, tempo, pause etc.
These are all valid factors that will affect your squat. But if you are deadlifting 150kg but only squatting 70kg there is something grossly wrong with what you are doing. We are talking about a back squat right? (Just to confirm).


There's could be something very wrong with your form. It's worth making sure there isn't.

Mellor

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

Watching some of the Olympic lifters videos on YouTube's good for getting an idea of how they're done properly. The benefits are obviously better ROM which means better gains (strength and size).

Based on what?

If it were true, abd ATG gave better strebgth gains, then Powerlifters should ATG in training, and parallel in comp.

Oly lifters squat high bar ATG because it replicates the bottom of a clean or snatch, and it's efficient to get as liw as possible under the bar.

Powerlifters squat to parallel because it's was picked as a less-subjective pount to judge on. And it's still plenty subjective.
If you aren't training for either sport, then squat depth isn't nearly as important are people make out. Consistency is far more important imo, but even still depth can be a progression just like weight or reps.

judosean2005

Mellor wrote: »

Powerlifters squat to parallel because it's was picked as a less-subjective pount to judge on.

The ruling is actually Squat must be below parallel. your hip joint must be lower then the knee joint.

Ive just competed in a powerlifitng event and the judges would fail u automatically if u were parallel. must be below parallel.

Mellor

judosean2005 wrote: »

The ruling is actually Squat must be below parallel. your hip joint must be lower then the knee joint.

Ive just competed in a powerlifitng event and the judges would fail u automatically if u were parallel. must be below parallel.

We are talking about the same thing. When people talk about a "parallel squat", it's where you break parallel.
http://stronglifts.com/squat/depth/#ParallelSquat

I think the technical rule is actually hip crease below knee, as the hip joint isn't directly visible.
Although some Feds have used very liberal interpretations when judging WRs. "The judges opinion on the angle of his femur" or some other nonsense.

judosean2005

Ooh sorry i wasnt aware that the below parallel squat was known as parallel squat but the Ruling is:

Upon receiving the head referee’s signal, the lifter must bend the knees and lower the body until the top surface of the legs at the hip joint is lower than the top of the knees.

http://internationalpowerliftingorganization.com/rules%20IPO.htm

Off topic anyway

Alf Veedersane

judosean2005 wrote: »

Ooh sorry i wasnt aware that the below parallel squat was known as parallel squat

Just shorthand. Most people understand what it means

Todd Toddington III

Warm ups should be 2 to 5 reps only. If you want to increase your squat then Hanley has a thread on how this is done. 5setsx8reps at 70% 1rep max week 1, 5x6 75% w2, 5x5 80% w3, 5x4 85% w4, 5x3 90% w5, 5x2 95% w6. This assumes one leg day a week. When you get to the end, start again but increase the weight by 5-10kg, should see an increase in what your squatting then

i57dwun4yb1pt8

possibly some 160 -200 kg leg press machine days might help .

tommyboy26

just a bit of an update

i took in everyones advice and yesterday i done:

bar x 12
bar x 12
60 x 6
70 x 6
80 x 6
80 x 3

bye bye been stuck on 70

thanks everyone for advice

Valmont

I was squatting with 30kg today after I hurt my leg a few weeks back and there were two fellows opposite me with 90kg and they were about 45 degrees off parallel. It seems to me in my rubbish gym that the 'ass to grass' squat isn't very popular at all. I think a big part of it is the sobering realisation that you can lift a lot more weight to parallel than when you drop deep without rounding your back etc. I think a lot of the guys I see in the gym doing 45 degree squats would probably only manage five reps with 20kg if they did it properly.