I'm great, I've just run a marathon, adore me...

adrian522

Can somebody point me to where people running slow marathons or other races are lauded as heroes? I see this mentioned a lot but have never come across it eitther on this forum, in my club or generally at work or amongst friends.

Chivito550

It would be great if people stop using the terms "elite" and "elitism".

ThisRegard

adrian522 wrote: »

Can somebody point me to where people running slow marathons or other races are lauded as heroes? I see this mentioned a lot but have never come across it eitther on this forum, in my club or generally at work or amongst friends.

If it's on social media, for the most part it has to be friends of people who see it, or groups they actively follow or seek out. Get new friends or stop following those groups, or simply don't give a damn, is the obvious answer to me.

ThisRegard

Chivito550 wrote: »

It would be great if people stop using the terms "elite" and "elitism".

Stopping using those words won't hide the fact some people are getting that impression.

Why don't you stop caring what the people you complain about it do?

Chivito550

ThisRegard wrote: »

Stopping using those words won't hide the fact some people are getting that impression.

Why don't you stop caring what the people you complain about it do?

And I suppose there's nothing in life that other people do that annoys your good self?

davedanon

adrian522 wrote: »

Can somebody point me to where people running slow marathons or other races are lauded as heroes? I see this mentioned a lot but have never come across it eitther on this forum, in my club or generally at work or amongst friends.

This is getting into the multiple-marathon arms race that exists in the charity/fundraising area of running. Raising money for charity is a laudable activity, of that there's no doubt. Personally, I couldn't/wouldn't do it. I run for myself. I'm not interested in raising money for a cause. I'll give my own money, but I have various difficulties with asking other people for money because I've done something. For one thing, it has led to this slightly ridiculous situation where people feel compelled to run more and more marathons, in ever more remote/dangerous parts of the world, in ever more compressed time windows. It's an arms race, and it's dumbing down the mystique of the marathon to the point now that nobody gives a crap if you've run one. But if you've run a hundred marathons in a hundred days in a hundred different countries in temperatures a hundred degrees apart? That's worth a huge amount of money to 'your favourite charity'. That's a phrase I absolutely hate. It's reducing people's poverty and misery or their illnesses to the status of a handbag. To me, the charity cake is only so big, and if your idea for fundraising is gimmicky and attention-grabbing and you make loads of dosh, to me all that achieves is to take money away from another cause. The whole charity industry is morally-dubious in many respects. From huge admin costs to the whole nauseating notion of charity 'personal development'. "Help me achieve my life-goal of climbing Kilimanjaro and make me feel good about it because I'm raising money for a good cause". Running has become a tool for these kinds of activities. Sorry, I know I'm going off-topic here, but there's no doubt that this where some of these slow-running heroes are to be found. Anyone remember when Eddie Izzard did all those marathons one after the other? Anyone else wonder why he was just as fat when he finished? Anyhow, rant over, carry on.

walshb

Yeh, all these charity ideas seem to be one person asking others to fund it! Unreal. If you are so into it then fooking fund it yourself.

Way off topic, (although marathon running does get a lot of these gimmicks) but the post above is very enlightening!

ThisRegard

Chivito550 wrote: »

And I suppose there's nothing in life that other people do that annoys your good self?

Certainly not strangers on the internet posting pictures of their times.

Gleedog

Run because it makes you feel good. Post it to your friends because it makes you feel better. Do whatever you like.

And if you can't handle people posting what they're proud of, ignore it, or go take it out on the roads. Don't be a cynical ***hole about it.

Everyone to their own!

I don't think this boom can last though. We're seeing less runners at races because there are so many races happening every weekend-thus diluting the competition-which I think is the reason for the lack of talent at the front of the races. The negative side of a boom, but hey, thats just the way it is.

Hannibal Smith

If I finished a marathon I wouldn't stop at social media! I'd be giving sky news a call :pac:

tHE vAGGABOND

Run because it makes you feel good. Post it to your friends because it makes you feel better. Do whatever you like.

And if you can't handle people posting what they're proud of, ignore it, or go take it out on the roads. Don't be a cynical ***hole about it.

This

Djoucer

Chivito550 wrote: »

If one just wants to treat running as exercise that's fine, just don't go advertising your times around, and looking for pats on the back. People who engage in walking, trekking and whatever other form of non competitive exercise don't do this so why should those who run for fitness only do it?

You need to let it go dude. Telling people not to go advertising their times or look for praise. Who cares. Unfollow them, delete them etc.

You seem to spend an inordinate time getting annoyed by trivial things about running then go on to complain about the lack of discussion on real running.

You posted a good interview yesterday but instead of celebrating the runner, you sabotaged your own thread, turning it into a negative.

Hence anyone with common sense stayed a mile out of the thread which was a pity and probably embarrassing for the runner concerned.


People really need to stop referring to Facebook pages where people share a common interest and are bound together by a positive outlook and mutual support.

Because that sounds a like how ART was before it became a cesspool of negativity and constant sniping. The thread yesterday is the perfect example of everything that is wrong with the ART.

Fair play to Robin for modding it well and I think this thread is a good attempt at finally dealing with all this crap and moving on.

NetwerkErrer

This is complete nonsense in my opinion and has well and truly being sucked dry over the last few months. 90% of the threads are ending up in this argument, even threads about national and international athletics and I don't know about anyone else but the main forum has become a place to avoid as much as possible.

Athletics doesn't have a trademark on running. A lot of the same people who moan about obesity in the country then in turn, moan about people taking up running and trying to achieve their goals in weight loss. People are individuals and all have different goals and motivation for running just like everything else in life, they will do something as much as they care to do it. It's not all of these people on facebook or boards get national attention for their running exploits, they get the plaudits from their group of friends and acquaintances. People say they don't want to improve, that's a barefaced lie. Is going from nothing to something not an improvement that they consciously made?

At the end of the day, backslapping of a new runner is not going to damage potential elite athletes. Elite athletes are competitive by nature and are never truly happy with where they are no matter how much backslapping goes on. The real problem is trying to make athletics a more attractive sport for competitive kids at a young age and enjoying it. There's your future right there.

walshb

NetwerkErrer wrote: »

I don't know about anyone else but the main forum has become a place to avoid as much as possible.

.

This seems to be sucked dry as well. You have mentioned this many times. We get it! I am not in that group.

NetwerkErrer

walshb wrote: »

This seems to be sucked dry as well. You have mentioned this many times. We get it! I am not in that group.

I wish you were!:D

walshb

NetwerkErrer wrote: »

I wish you were!:D

But don't you think we should start focusing more on the good about the forum from now on? There's a lot more good debate and information than nonsense and petty arguments.

tHE vAGGABOND

It's one of these things that I bet many of the folks here do with families, friends, work colleagues..

If something or someone is really negative or you dont agree with them, the solution is rarely:

a) ..to join them in being negative
b) ..to actively fight with negative person about why they are negative

Then what I don't get is why those same people, smart in real life, keep doing that here over and over and over...

Can we not just all agree that some people want to run to enjoy the outside and work off some food/pints, and others want to get better and push themselves, and all which comes with that [and people are free to move from one group to the other, and people are free to be "newbies" and ask stupid questions etc].

Neither side is right or wrong. If you dont care about what a thread is saying, close it and read another one ffs

Halloween Jack

Chivito550 wrote: »

I don't care if somebody is 40 stone and manages to get through 5k in an hour. Athletics is a sport. The beauty of this simple sport is that the clock says all. There's no handicapping system in place to adjust times due to somebody's weight. If somebody wants to take part in this great sport (and the more the better), then one should accept that there is a hierarchy in place, and try your best to climb up through such ranks, regardless of what level it is.

If one just wants to treat running as exercise that's fine, just don't go advertising your times around, and looking for pats on the back. People who engage in walking, trekking and whatever other form of non competitive exercise don't do this so why should those who run for fitness only do it?

Competitive to me, means somebody trying to improve their times, regardless of ability.

Somebody trying to improve their times might mean competitive to you, but it's not what competitive means at all, it actually means displaying a strong desire to be more successful than others.

I've been learning to play guitar for 4 or 5 years, im rubbish, I'll likely always be rubbish, especially in comparison to others, but Im better now than I was yesterday. Occaisionally if I crack a song I've been working on for ages I might upload it to youtube etc, as I'm proud of it, even if it's a fairly rudimentary piece. I'm not competing with anyone and I don't care who is better or worse than me. And once I reach a certain standard I'll stop practicing and enjoy what I can do. Why should running be any different? And before you tell me music isn't competitive, or doesn't have a hierarchical element, go check out auditions for berklee or a symphony orchestra....

baza1976

Chivito550 wrote: »

It would be great if people stop using the terms "elite" and "elitism".

On the scale of things, there are no elite people on here. People might think that they are elite.

Apologies if I burst anyone's bubble.

tHE vAGGABOND

I have not played GAA at any level since I was 12. But I can still talk rubbish about the how Dublin should have done better here, or what the gooch coming back for Kerry could mean etc. I can have opinions, and only want the best on what my team should do here and there etc - I think that is what folks mean by elitism on this forum. You dont have to be at that level to think like that [and you dont have to be anywhere close to correct either]

I could not get into the worst Junior football team in all of Ireland, but I can still be "elitist" in my attitudes to the GAA...

..Like when Brendan Foster is doing commentating on the London marathon in a few weeks, and talks about folks finishing sub-3 as "fun runners" and folks finishing around 3.10-3.15 as only doing it for the tee-shirt. Where many will have been running 100 mile weeks [where to me a fun runner is someone with a packet of monster munchies in their hand midrace!]

CaliforniaDream

I completed a marathon last year. I was slow as hell and it took me 6hrs.
I posted a picture of my medal on facebook.
Why? Because I was damn proud that I had the dedication to stick to a training plan for months and actually get off my ass and finish a marathon.
Would I do it again? No, I hated it. I hated the training. Running is not for me. I knew this halfway through my training so I could have easily quit and tried something else.
But instead I stuck to it and got my medal in the end.

I'll never apologise for myself when I'm doing something to better myself and of people want to judge me doing something rather than nothing then that's their issue.
Judge away. I'll be over here feeling great that I'm actively trying to get better.

ultrapercy

Chivito550 wrote: »

It would be great if people stop using the terms "elite" and "elitism".

I agree with you because elite is a false description but it is now used almost as an insult. I know a club whose Facebook profile picture is of a man wearing a parkrun t shirt with the logo here to complete not to complete. When this picture was posted it was congratulated and celebrated with likes and comments for the wearer and his brilliant attitude. That was a head scratcher for me, by all means encourage people to participate at whatever level they wish but don't have participation as the ethos of an athletics club. Competition is not a bad thing in fact it is necessary, competition is what got us down from the trees Standing on two legs.

davedanon

"competition is what got us down from the trees Standing on two legs."



I thought it was when the bears grew wings...

MrWalsh

ultrapercy wrote: »

That was a head scratcher for me, by all means encourage people to participate at whatever level they wish but don't have participation as the ethos of an athletics club.

Why not?

average_runner

Yes competition is good and needed, but don't push it on everyone in this forum.

If someone does a 5 hour marathon and looks for a clap on their back from their friends, so what, don't knock it, its nothing to do with you.

Let them enjoy their moment as you will enjoy your moment when you get your time.

28064212

It's worth pointing out that the original post isn't actually about social running or it's value to the individual (although the thread title and first line aren't particularly helpful). It's saying that there has been a huge increase in the numbers running, and is asking how that could be leveraged to benefit athletics at the elite level.

It doesn't say that social running is a bad thing

Halloween Jack

ultrapercy wrote: »

I agree with you because elite is a false description but it is now used almost as an insult. I know a club whose Facebook profile picture is of a man wearing a parkrun t shirt with the logo here to complete not to complete. When this picture was posted it was congratulated and celebrated with likes and comments for the wearer and his brilliant attitude. That was a head scratcher for me, by all means encourage people to participate at whatever level they wish but don't have participation as the ethos of an athletics club. Competition is not a bad thing in fact it is necessary, competition is what got us down from the trees Standing on two legs.

Surely there is room for clubs with a range of ethos'? Why can't clubs exist for people to share the love an activity in a social setting, without an implied pressure to improve and compete etc? I can't see what harm such a club do. Competition is only one reason we descended from the trees you know, our ability to socialise and cooperate was just as important.

tmh106

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Surely there is room for clubs with a range of ethos'? Why can't clubs exist for people to share the love an activity in a social setting, without an implied pressure to improve and compete etc? I can't see what harm such a club do. Competition is only one reason we descended from the trees you know, our ability to socialise and cooperate was just as important.

I didn't know we were ever up the trees. If you are concerned about running performance, going from four legs to two arms and two legs was definitely a retrograde step.

Halloween Jack

tmh106 wrote: »

I didn't know we were ever up the trees. If you are concerned about running performance, going from four legs to two arms and two legs was definitely a retrograde step.

That part of my post was borrowed from the previous poster and was, in both cases, figurative.

RJM85

Not wanting to blow my own trumpet or anything, but I /am/ great and I /have/ run a marathon.

Adore me.

ultraman1

This foto puts into words wats is wrong with some running clubs and society in general...

robinph

<mod>Some of you may have been lucky enough to have missed where the origins of this thread came from, be glad of that. As I have better things to be doing with my time than going through and editing the previous posts to create a new thread, the OP in this thread deliberately included deliberately contentious comments, but they are just a summary of some of the topics that keep popping up in other threads and was one part of the cause for the mass deletion.

Thank you to those of you who have taken the topic and run with it in the right direction. Apologies to those of you who may have been offended by anything. </mod>

walshb

MrWalsh wrote: »

Why not?

Because an athletics club's primary focus should be on actual competition and winning. No different than a boxing club. Competing is why they should exist!

BTW, I am not having a debate with myself!

MrWalsh

walshb wrote: »

Competing is why they should exist!

Ah - I cant agree with this.

Very non inclusive viewpoint imo. Reminds me of the satirical film Team America "Winning is Everything" song.

Btw - You are not debating with yourself

average_runner

walshb wrote: »

Because an athletics club's primary focus should be on actual competition and winning. No different than a boxing club. Competing is why they should exist!

BTW, I am not having a debate with myself!

Actually, definition of a club is : "an association dedicated to a particular interest or activity"

In our running club you have many different sections, some for the competitive section but there is other sections for the social side of it.

walshb

MrWalsh wrote: »

Ah - I cant agree with this.

Very non inclusive viewpoint imo. Reminds me of the satirical film Team America "Winning is Everything" song.

Btw - You are not debating with yourself

Sorry, but I believe that competing and winning should be their primary goal and objective. Those who join and do not want to represent the club in races/competition should probably join a leisure club to keep fit!

menoscemo

I genuinley think that 99% of people in running are competitive, especially people who regularly enter races. Some will say they are not competitive but they will certainly tell you when they set a PB!!
People who are not ashamed to be openly competitive and flat out say I want to improve by x or I want to run this race in x, y ,z are often stigmatised as being 'elitist' which I think is nonsense. Elitist is a silly word that's thrown about IMO.

The thing that gets me I guess is when I see people posting up pics on FB or other social media of their every run, saying 'I just ran a 4 mile PB' etc. That does annoy me, merely because I know they want to improve but I can see they are doing it wrong.
There is something in me that wants to say: 'No, you shouldn't be going out every time trying to run faster than the last' and then to try to explain how to train properly. This is mostly down to the fact I can see their mistakes because I made them myself and learned. However I am coming to understand that there are lots of people who just don't want to learn and they certainly don't appreciate your tips or comments. This is the bit I find frustrating because I know they want to improve...

Anyway I suppose the easiest thing is to just let these people at it and ignore it all, I am coming to realise that....

walshb

average_runner wrote: »

Actually, definition of a club is : "an association dedicated to a particular interest or activity"

In our running club you have many different sections, some for the competitive section but there is other sections for the social side of it.

No interest in getting into semantics here. Maybe I am coming too much from the boxing club perspective, which have been littered with people wanting to join without necessarily wanting to take the heat in the ring. Don't waste my time, join a gym!

MrWalsh

walshb wrote: »

Sorry, but I believe that competing and winning should be their primary goal and objective. Those who join and do not want to represent the club in races/competition should probably join a leisure club to keep fit!

So you are happy for people who arent interested in competing to run in leisure clubs but not in an athletics club? Or is it that they shouldnt be running at all if they dont want to compete?

Im not trying to be obtuse, but I really dont see what you are getting at.

walshb

MrWalsh wrote: »

So you are happy for people who arent interested in competing to run in leisure clubs but not in an athletics club? Or is it that they shouldnt be running at all if they dont want to compete?

Im not trying to be obtuse, but I really dont see what you are getting at.

Run all they want, but if wanting to join an athletics club then maybe think a bit harder. It's an athletics club and it should be about competing and pretty much that is all. Hey, I am no expert on the goals of the athletics clubs but I would have thought that their primary goal was to recruit people to represent the club in a competitive environment, and when asked, compete! No ifs and buts!

average_runner

menoscemo wrote: »

I genuinley think that 99% of people in running are competitive, especially people who regularly enter races. Some will say they are not competitive but they will certainly tell you when they set a PB!!
People who are not ashamed to be openly competitive and flat out say I want to improve by x or I want to run this race in x, y ,z are often stigmatised as being 'elitist' which I think is nonsense. Elitist is a silly word that's thrown about IMO.

The thing that gets me I guess is when I see people posting up pics on FB or other social media of their every run, saying 'I just ran a 4 mile PB' etc. That does annoy me, merely because I know they want to improve but I can see they are doing it wrong.
There is something in me that wants to say: 'No, you shouldn't be going out every time trying to run faster than the last' and then to try to explain how to train properly. This is mostly down to the fact I can see their mistakes because I made them myself and learned. However I am coming to understand that there are lots of people who just don't want to learn and they certainly don't appreciate your tips or comments. This is the bit I find frustrating because I know they want to improve...

Anyway I suppose the easiest thing is to just let these people at it and ignore it all, I am coming to realise that....

Facebook, the best thing i never joined !!!

Always competing against your watch when u race

MrWalsh

walshb wrote: »

Run all they want, but if wanting to join an athletics club then maybe think a bit harder. It's an athletics club and it should be about competing and pretty much that is all. Hey, I am no expert on the goals of the athletics clubs but I would have thought that their primary goal was to recruit people to represent the club in a competitive environment, and when asked, compete! No ifs and buts!

There must be a place for different types of clubs though?

I would have hoped the primary goal would be to be inclusive, encourage participation, and to facilitate those who want to compete and represent the club in a competitive environment.

Halloween Jack

walshb wrote: »

No interest in getting into semantics here. Maybe I am coming too much from the boxing club perspective, which have been littered with people wanting to join without necessarily wanting to take the heat in the ring. Don't waste my time, join a gym!

So you'd rather turn them away? This thread has pretty much proved that many people want many different things from different activities. Surely the important thing about sport at the level we are talking about is that people who would like to be involved can do so, decide their own level of involvement and not be judged by those who take it more seriously?

If Id been involved with a niche sport for years, and all of a sudden everywhere I look I see new entrants to the sport out participating Id be over the moon, regardless of the level they were at. Id safely assume that the vast majority may leave after a while but a fraction will become more heavily involved, with clubs etc, and the sport gets more attention and grows and as noted above, maybe these adult entrants eventually get their kids involved and it becomes part of their life etc.

What you are talking about is closing off a given sport to only those willing to compete, which does nobody any favours in the long run. Not the enthusiast, not the club secretary, not the governing body and not the previously sedentary adult who had the door slammed in his face and took up something else instead.

walshb

MrWalsh wrote: »

There must be a place for different types of clubs though?

I would have hoped the primary goal would be to be inclusive, encourage participation, and to facilitate those who want to compete and represent the club in a competitive environment.

No, then clubs can become overrun with messers. As in those who may be taking up time for nothing. That is why they should maybe run by themselves. That's the beauty of running. It's the easiest past time known to man. One leg in front of the other and the basic bit of balance and you are away. I assume clubs have coaches. What a waste for coaches to be taking up time with people who don't want to race or represent the club in competitions.

walshb

Halloween Jack wrote: »

So you'd rather turn them away? This thread has pretty much proved that many people want many different things from different activities. Surely the important thing about sport at the level we are talking about is that people who would like to be involved can do so, decide their own level of involvement and not be judged by those who take it more seriously?

.

I would turn away those that have no interest in racing/competing/representing the club in competitions.

ultraman1

MrWalsh wrote: »

There must be a place for different types of clubs though?

There is ,if u want to run and improve etc,join a unning club,if u wannna post up garmin fotos,join #RSP,though u may be waiting awhile,,,,

MrWalsh

walshb wrote: »

No, then clubs can become overrun with messers. As in those who may be taking up time for nothing. That is why they should maybe run by themselves. That's the beauty of running. It's the easiest past time known to man. One leg in front of the other and the basic bit of balance and you are away. I assume clubs have coaches. What a waste for coaches to be taking up time with people who don't want to race or represent the club in competitions.

Messers? Bit dismissive no?

I think that attitude is awful tbh. My little niece (8 years old) is being pushed by her swimming club to compete now. She's a good swimmer. She doesnt want to compete. Her family dont want her to. It will soon come to a point where she leaves it because she doesnt want to compete. So then there will be a kid who loves swimming but who doesnt do it anymore because she is offered a choice of "compete or leave".

I really dont see how that is good for anyone.

MrWalsh

walshb wrote: »

I would turn away those that have no interest in racing/competing/representing the club in competitions.

How does that help the sport or anyone else?

walshb

MrWalsh wrote: »

How does that help the sport or anyone else?

I don't know. How does it ruin the sport? See. the key word is sport. Running is not necessarily sport. A sport is something that is competitive; that is the key ingredient.

I'll tell you how a free for all could damage a boxing club. When anyone and everyone is allowed join without the requirement to compete, resources are stretched and the actual boxers are competing for access to time and equipment, and this will negatively impact their performance. I am not sure how this pans out in an athletics club, but I wouldn't think there would be too much difference.

walshb

MrWalsh wrote: »

Messers? Bit dismissive no?

I think that attitude is awful tbh. My little niece (8 years old) is being pushed by her swimming club to compete now. She's a good swimmer. She doesnt want to compete. Her family dont want her to. It will soon come to a point where she leaves it because she doesnt want to compete. So then there will be a kid who loves swimming but who doesnt do it anymore because she is offered a choice of "compete or leave".

I really dont see how that is good for anyone.

That to me is the definition of a club. The swimming club in this case is the one I'd be thinking of joining if I was keen to compete.

BTW, don't be so defeatist. There are other alternatives for a swim loving child.