Disc Brakes on road bike for Sportives ?

greenspurs

Im currently looking at road bikes as i will be purchasing one in the next few months.
I am seeing a lot of bikes with disc brakes.
What are peoples experiences/opinions of them?
I ride sportives, i dont race :rolleyes:

Lumen

For sportives I wouldn't bother. Cable-operated disc brakes are crap and hydro ones are expensive, both are heavy. Handling is slightly worse.

More here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057305615

greenspurs

Thanks for that Lumen .... Lovely Synapse you have ! well wear..

Fian

My son has hydraullic disc brakes on his (hybrid) bike. I love them. My next road bike will have them.

they are a great braking system.

I have mechanical disc brakes on my hybrid commuter, hydraullics are better but even the cable actuated disc brakes are a big improvement on rim brakes imo, especially in the wet.

http://www.rosebikes.com/bike/rose-xeon-cdx-3100-di2/aid:756153

greenspurs

Broken link Fian ??

Lumen

Fian wrote: »

I have mechanical disc brakes on my hybrid commuter, hydraullics are better but even the cable actuated disc brakes are a big improvement on rim brakes imo, especially in the wet.

I wouldn't extrapolate your hybrid experience to a road bike. Drop bar levers and cable discs are worse than flat bar levers and cable discs.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Fian wrote: »

My son has hydraullic disc brakes on his (hybrid) bike. I love them. My next road bike will have them.

they are a great braking system.

I have mechanical disc brakes on my hybrid commuter, hydraullics are better but even the cable actuated disc brakes are a big improvement on rim brakes imo, especially in the wet.

http://www.rosebikes.com/bike/rose-xeon-cdx-3100-di2/aid:756153

My Hybrid has hydraulic brakes and I bloody love 'em.. My CX has mechanic disks, and while they're mostly better than any road bikes I've had I'd rather the hydraulic any day.

But one thing I've found with the mechanical/cable disk brakes on my CX is they lake feel, rather wooden but by Christ they'd still haul you in ~ sometimes on the downhills I've to feather them as they feel like they're either off, or throwing me over the bars

OP, tbh I wouldn't be changing a bike just for disk brakes. But if you are changing bike and disk brakes are a preference I'd hold out for hydraulic brakes.

petethedrummer

greenspurs wrote: »

What are peoples experiences/opinions of them?

They're ugly.

cajonlardo

Lumen wrote: »

Cable-operated disc brakes are crap

Surprised at that!

There are plenty of online reviews on trp, shimano and the likes and I've yet to see one saying they are crap - in fact, I don't remember reading one that wasn't positive.

In the past I've used Shimano CX77's and cheap as chips Promax and currently own a bike with BB7. Given a choice between rims and mechanical discs I'd choose the discs if the rest of the bike was equal.

Best tip I'd give for mechanical discs is to read up on the setup and watch the online videos. If you have poor performance from any of the quality marques then there is something wrong with setup.

Jim Stynes

Used them in Tenerife on a rented bike and swapped the bike after the first day. Hated them! Too sensitive on the descent, felt like they would throw me over the handlebars and they were bloody heavy as well! The guide who I was with was a semi pro cyclist and he reckons they are too dangerous for descents on road bikes and couldn't believe the rental place used them on their bikes. Some people would maybe like them but definitely not for me.

mhiggy09

Jim Stynes wrote: »

Used them in Tenerife on a rented bike and swapped the bike after the first day. Hated them! Too sensitive on the descent, felt like they would throw me over the handlebars and they were bloody heavy as well! The guide who I was with was a semi pro cyclist and he reckons they are too dangerous for descents on road bikes and couldn't believe the rental place used them on their bikes. Some people would maybe like them but definitely not for me.

How did your trip go on the end?

Ole Rodrigo

They appear to be a solution to a problem that never existed.

devonp

Fian wrote: »

My son has hydraullic disc brakes on his (hybrid) bike. I love them. My next road bike will have them.

they are a great braking system.

I have mechanical disc brakes on my hybrid commuter, hydraullics are better but even the cable actuated disc brakes are a big improvement on rim brakes imo, especially in the wet.

http://www.rosebikes.com/bike/rose-xeon-cdx-3100-di2/aid:756153

+1 for my next bike n+1 etc whenever...i would def go for hydral disc have them on my hybrid/MTB stop on a dime even in the rain with 1 finger braking
have to be so much more cautious on the road bike

Borderfox

I raced for about five years when I was younger and not once did I ever think i needed more braking power, I needed more power to go all right.

I have three sets of wheels and if it goes all disc what do you do with these, seems like the change to get more money out of consumers?

Lumen

cajonlardo wrote: »

Surprised at that!

There are plenty of online reviews on trp, shimano and the likes and I've yet to see one saying they are crap - in fact, I don't remember reading one that wasn't positive.

In the past I've used Shimano CX77's and cheap as chips Promax and currently own a bike with BB7. Given a choice between rims and mechanical discs I'd choose the discs if the rest of the bike was equal.

Best tip I'd give for mechanical discs is to read up on the setup and watch the online videos. If you have poor performance from any of the quality marques then there is something wrong with setup.

I've read the videos and set them up right. They're just not very good. BB7s, for instance, only move one pad. So you have to set the other one up right next to the rotor which makes it hugely sensitive to wheel alignment in the dropout.

The levers I've used have generally had a lot of free stroke, and when the pads wear a bit there's so much travel that the levers almost hit the bars during hard braking.

Every cable disc drop bar bike I've tried has had crappy rear brake feel on anything but the very best compressionless housings, and even with those the rear feels worse than the front.

My hydros, by comparison, have much better modulation, no issues with excessive travel, aren't very sensitive to wheel location and don't need adjusting as the pads wear. I haven't touched them since the bike was new (only a couple of months, admittedly, but with heavy braking daily) and they feel just the same as when I took it out of the box.

coastwatch

For the really undecided on disc brakes, there's always the Culprit Croz Blade. It's both disc and caliper compatible.

cajonlardo

Lumen wrote: »

I've read the videos and set them up right. They're just not very good. BB7s, for instance, only move one pad. So you have to set the other one up right next to the rotor which makes it hugely sensitive to wheel alignment in the dropout.

The levers I've used have generally had a lot of free stroke, and when the pads wear a bit there's so much travel that the levers almost hit the bars during hard braking.

Every cable disc drop bar bike I've tried has had crappy rear brake feel on anything but the very best compressionless housings, and even with those the rear feels worse than the front.

My hydros, by comparison, have much better modulation, no issues with excessive travel, aren't very sensitive to wheel location and don't need adjusting as the pads wear. I haven't touched them since the bike was new (only a couple of months, admittedly, but with heavy braking daily) and they feel just the same as when I took it out of the box.

Hydraulics are without doubt superior but how that translates into mechanicals being crap escapes me.
Wheel position in dropouts are ime as simple as locking the Q/R with the weight of the bike on the axle. Its something I don't even think about as it causes me no bother in use. Excessive Lever travel is something I haven't experienced except with OLD Campag levers and I got around that by tightening cable while the lever brake release open and then locking after adjustment. My 6800 ultegra's for example have very short throw and no way will they go anywhere near the bar with BB7's. I've very long - aprx 1300mm of rear brake casing - and still have A1 rear braking.

Compressionless casing is great and I do use Jagwire but I have even used lifeline, wiggles own brand, casing without as a big loss of performance as you might expect.

I got a CaadX and it had the cheap oem Promax's and even with those I hadn't any real bother, I'd take them over most rim brakes anytime and every rim brake in the wet.

You will be hard put to find a creditable bad review of Spyres, CX77's or even the aged BB7. Nope, sorry, just can't agree that mechanicals are crap

Brian?

Ole Rodrigo wrote: »

They appear to be a solution to a problem that never existed.

This pretty much sums up my opinion on them.

nak

My husband was suitably smug with his TRP Spyres on Saturday at the Tour of Flanders sportive, while I was getting less and less braking in the rain/mud with my Dura Ace calipers (not that it was a major issue, as no long descents). He has the Hy/Rd's on his cross bike.

longshank

Borderfox wrote: »

I raced for about five years when I was younger and not once did I ever think i needed more braking power, I needed more power to go all right.

I have three sets of wheels and if it goes all disc what do you do with these, seems like the change to get more money out of consumers?

Spot on in fact people braking in middle of peloton probably a bigger danger!

youtheman

I have just 'splashed out' on my third bike (first world problems wha !), ordered, and awaiting delivery. I wanted a 'relaxed geometry' frame for sportives (I don't race). I also wanted to 'treat myself' to Di2 (as realistically this will be my 'last bike'). I noted that a lot of new bikes have disc brakes. I read somewhere that the UCI are thinking of making them legal for racing. So I ordered a Rose Xeon CDX-3100 Di2 Carbon frame with hydraulic discs at just under €3k. Complete bike is 7.6 kgs, so weight is not a problem. I also like the fact that on the Rose bike the hydraulic tube is integrated into the front fork, so nice clean lines.

I like the idea that you're not wearing the rim of the wheel all the time.

Someone in the club was on about the 'dangers' of disc brakes, either the sharp edge or the extreme hot surface. Seemed to be B/S to me !!!.

Bigus

Is there a hydraulic option for tradional rim brakes available ?

Bigus

Oh yes there is
https://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/sram-red-hydraulic-rim-brakeset

Koobcam

To the op, if you are in the market for a new bike, and aren't planning on racing, then I would say definitely go for disc brakes, and make sure you get the Shimano Hydraulic ones. I have a cx bike with mechanical discs (brcx77) and also a road bike with Dura ace 9000. DA 9000 is without doubt the best rim brake you can get, and I have them paired with a set of C35 clinchers, one of the best rims for braking. When it's dry, the DA brakes work very well and are fine, but when it's wet, the mechanical discs are far superior, basically because they perform exactly the same. I haven;t used Shimano Hydraulic brakes yet, but was in the cyclesuperstore yesterday messing around with a few bikes which had hydros, and the lever feel is incredible. I reckon you would get much better control of braking with these and no loss of power as long as you maintain the system properly (and a hydraulic really doesn;t require much maintenance once they are initially set up properly). Hydraulic pads also work better since they apply force equally from both sides and automatically centre themselves (so for example with pad wear you don't have to fiddle around with pad adjustment like with mechanicals). The bottom line with discs is that mid-range discs (even mechanicals) out perform top of the range rim brakes when it's wet, and in Ireland, it's more often than not going to be wet.

Aside from braking, getting a disc-equipped road bike will also more than likely allow you to run wider tyres than a standard road bike-you'll fit at least 28mm tyres into pretty much any disc-equipped road bike (except maybe for the Hongfu FM 079). This is great as it's going to offer more comfort on sh*t roads, which we have plenty of in Ireland, and makes the bike better equipped for gravel roads and the like.

The biggest drawback with disc road bikes is the relative lack of good wheel options, though I think there have been a lot of new wheels released this year which may redress this imbalance.

My suggestion for a disc road bike would be the Rose CDX-the top end one weighs only 6.9kg, around the same as my racing bike (with the dura ace bling) and you can get it with Di2 ultegra and ok-ish wheels for less than 3 grand.

Koobcam

youtheman wrote: »

I have just 'splashed out' on my third bike (first world problems wha !), ordered, and awaiting delivery. I wanted a 'relaxed geometry' frame for sportives (I don't race). I also wanted to 'treat myself' to Di2 (as realistically this will be my 'last bike'). I noted that a lot of new bikes have disc brakes. I read somewhere that the UCI are thinking of making them legal for racing. So I ordered a Rose Xeon CDX-3100 Di2 Carbon frame with hydraulic discs at just under €3k. Complete bike is 7.6 kgs, so weight is not a problem. I also like the fact that on the Rose bike the hydraulic tube is integrated into the front fork, so nice clean lines.

I like the idea that you're not wearing the rim of the wheel all the time.

Someone in the club was on about the 'dangers' of disc brakes, either the sharp edge or the extreme hot surface. Seemed to be B/S to me !!!.

Be interested in hearing more about this bike once you get it, I was thinking of making the same purchase myself. What are the Rose delivery times like?

youtheman

Koobcam wrote: »

Be interested in hearing more about this bike once you get it, I was thinking of making the same purchase myself. What are the Rose delivery times like?

Ordered it on 12th March and due to be 'assembled' on 27th May. Must say my dealings with Rose, to date, has been great. They were quick to answer technical queries, also advice on frame sizing. Only other bike with the same specification was a Giant Defy Advanced O at almost a grand more expensive.

outfox

youtheman wrote: »

as realistically this will be my 'last bike'

Now that's just crazy talk.

ford2600

Koobcam wrote: »

Be interested in hearing more about this bike once you get it, I was thinking of making the same purchase myself. What are the Rose delivery times like?

Don't hang about prices going up by 8% across their range on April 30th, due to weak euro I think

Lumen

longshank wrote: »

Spot on in fact people braking in middle of peloton probably a bigger danger!

youtheman wrote: »

Someone in the club was on about the 'dangers' of disc brakes, either the sharp edge or the extreme hot surface. Seemed to be B/S to me !!!.

IMO disc brakes on sportive bikes will increase the risk of "death by Fred". I was almost taken out by someone on the ROK who slammed on their rim brakes in the middle of a straight, flat open road after dropping something, and whilst I was able to come to a stop I wouldn't have fancied my chances if she'd had disc brakes.

I do a regular Sunday morning MAMIL loop of Howth on my hydro-Di2 Cannondale with another boardsie on rim brakes. We have both raced enough have reasonable bike control, but when descending with me in front we are really wary of the braking differential. A wet descent down that very steep, twisting route towards the church was a real eye-opener - I could brake later and harder but descend faster overall.

Wet sportives have the potential to be total carnage.

nak

Lumen wrote: »

Wet sportives have the potential to be total carnage.

That was not the case at the Tour of Flanders sportive, loads of people using discs and I didn't see anyone cause problems. 16,000 people and I only saw 1 crash, which was just a slide into a ditch on a muddy corner (he kept it upright).

No one should be braking rapidly in a bunch, that's bad bike handling, nothing to do with what brakes you're using.

Lumen

nak wrote: »

That was not the case at the Tour of Flanders sportive, loads of people using discs and I didn't see anyone cause problems. 16,000 people and I only saw 1 crash, which was just a slide into a ditch on a muddy corner (he kept it upright).

The Tour of Flanders sportive is not the Ring of Kerry!

nak wrote: »

No one should be braking rapidly in a bunch, that's bad bike handling, nothing to do with what brakes you're using.

Bad bike handling + very powerful brakes = carnage.

nak

Lumen wrote: »

The Tour of Flanders sportive is not the Ring of Kerry!

That's why I haven't done the ROK sportive, much nicer to ride there without the crowds and a load of inexperienced cyclists. Good few at work who've done it after buying a bike and training for it once or twice.

Lumen wrote: »

Bad bike handling + very powerful brakes = carnage.

True, but can also be carnage with rim brakes. We did a sportive here (can't remember which one) and people were screaming brake!! repeatedly, which led to a hug bottle neck and some wheel touches. There was no need to be braking, it was a teeny descent and perfectly safe.

quozl

I like the idea of disc brakes - sometimes in the wet if I'm on the hoods the braking power on my road-bike isn't what I'd like it to be. It only really matters in traffic if I'm going fast in the rain, cars in front of me can stop on a dime so I have to keep further back from them than I'd like. I ran into the back of a car that jammed on the brakes once for a last minute decision to turn. Was almost completely stopped by the time I reached it but just a tiny bit more braking power and I'd have saved myself the embarassment! Didn't want to run up the inside as it had started indicating left as it jammed on and didn't want to run up the outside as narrow road with oncoming traffic. Would have liked disc brakes that day and they'd allow me to safely go a bit faster in those sort of conditions

So, I think of them as a good commuter option more than anything else.

That said I'd be a bit nervous about a mix of rim and disc brakes in the big beginner groups that my club gets. Nervous cyclists jam on the brakes sometimes and if they can brake perfectly and the guys behind them can't then I don't see how that won't result in crashes. Maybe we'll end up splitting beginners into rim and disc brake groups on wet days?

Brian?

Lumen wrote: »

The Tour of Flanders sportive is not the Ring of Kerry!


Bad bike handling + very powerful brakes = carnage.

I'm currently lobbying to have disc brakes banned in this years WW200.

Lumen

Brian? wrote: »

I'm currently lobbying to have disc brakes banned in this years WW200.

Good luck with that.

Koobcam

ford2600 wrote: »

Don't hang about prices going up by 8% across their range on April 30th, due to weak euro I think

Good advice, and I kind of had that in the back of my mind. On the one hand, if I wait till Eurobike, probably there will be more models to choose from (maybe a Canyon disc bike) but as you say, with the Euro in the toilet, probably good to buy while prices are still unaffected.

07Lapierre

nak wrote: »

That was not the case at the Tour of Flanders sportive, loads of people using discs and I didn't see anyone cause problems. 16,000 people and I only saw 1 crash, which was just a slide into a ditch on a muddy corner (he kept it upright).

No one should be braking rapidly in a bunch, that's bad bike handling, nothing to do with what brakes you're using.

I was at the Tour Of Flanders as well and your right..very few crashes...But that was because everyone was WALKING!

gambeta_fc

Brian? wrote: »

I'm currently lobbying to have disc brakes banned in this years WW200.

Seriously?

Banning someone from taking part because they have disc brakes on their bike seems a bit harsh?

nak

07Lapierre wrote: »

I was at the Tour Of Flanders as well and your right..very few crashes...But that was because everyone was WALKING!

Walking? I certainly did none of that Was able to get back on after getting stopped fortunately, then screamed at people in my limited cycling Dutch to get out the way. Some of the spectators were pushing people to get them going again.

07Lapierre

nak wrote: »

Walking? I certainly did none of that Was able to get back on after getting stopped fortunately, then screamed at people in my limited cycling Dutch to get out the way. Some of the spectators were pushing people to get them going again.

Unfortunately there were so many Photographers and video cameras around there no point denying it...I did quite a bity of walking! That Paterberg climb was a Bit*h!

nak

07Lapierre wrote: »

Unfortunately there were so many Photographers and video cameras around there no point denying it...I did quite a bity of walking! That Paterberg climb was a Bit*h!

I was forced to stop on the Paterberg at the steepest point, so had to walk the rest of it. Not being able to get out the saddle didn't help. First outing on new tyres and there's loads of wear on them.

Fian

youtheman wrote: »

I have just 'splashed out' on my third bike (first world problems wha !), ordered, and awaiting delivery. I wanted a 'relaxed geometry' frame for sportives (I don't race). I also wanted to 'treat myself' to Di2 (as realistically this will be my 'last bike'). I noted that a lot of new bikes have disc brakes. I read somewhere that the UCI are thinking of making them legal for racing. So I ordered a Rose Xeon CDX-3100 Di2 Carbon frame with hydraulic discs at just under €3k. Complete bike is 7.6 kgs, so weight is not a problem. I also like the fact that on the Rose bike the hydraulic tube is integrated into the front fork, so nice clean lines.

I like the idea that you're not wearing the rim of the wheel all the time.

Someone in the club was on about the 'dangers' of disc brakes, either the sharp edge or the extreme hot surface. Seemed to be B/S to me !!!.

Nice bike, I plan on this being my next. Fior an extra 500 they will change the wheels to Mavic Krysium disc.

Anyone know what "WTS" means in the context of these wheels?

Fian

ford2600 wrote: »

Don't hang about prices going up by 8% across their range on April 30th, due to weak euro I think

Thanks for pointing this out.

Apart from anything else it gives me a good reason to inform my wife that it turns out I can't wait for a few months to order this bike after all.

So that leads me to a question. I am 5' 8". Rose bikes come in 53 and 55cm frames. which of those two would suit me best? 53cm I guess? I am currently riding a 54cm road bike frame (ridley eos) and I think it is around about right, but I would rather have one slightly too small than slightly too big I guess.

Lumen

Fian wrote: »

Anyone know what "WTS" means in the context of these wheels?

Wheel Tyre System, I think. Because the tyres go on the wheels, or something.

DirkVoodoo

nak wrote: »

True, but can also be carnage with rim brakes. We did a sportive here (can't remember which one) and people were screaming brake!! repeatedly, which led to a hug bottle neck and some wheel touches. There was no need to be braking, it was a teeny descent and perfectly safe.

It's not bad braking that's the issue, it's that when the guy on discs is in front and needs to brake (lots of traffic around Howth), his rate of "deceleration" is much higher than the guy (me!) on rim brakes. Lumen was almost stopped before I could react and I'd class myself as being fairly ok at holding a wheel.

Btw, from what I remember the Tour of Flanders was mostly easy descending, nothing technical and rarely met oncoming traffic.

Brian?

gambeta_fc wrote: »

Seriously?

Banning someone from taking part because they have disc brakes on their bike seems a bit harsh?

Twas a joke

nak

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Btw, from what I remember the Tour of Flanders was mostly easy descending, nothing technical and rarely met oncoming traffic.

Pouring rain changed that. Have done Alpine descents with people on disc brakes, cross races etc and have never had any issues. I tend to not sit right on people's wheels though unless racing.

On the other hand, have had plenty of near misses with sudden braking in sportives, races and group rides from people using rim brakes.

gambeta_fc

Brian? wrote: »

Twas a joke

Apologies good sir, faulty humour detector on my side, must get it booked in for a tune up

Fian

ford2600 wrote: »

Don't hang about prices going up by 8% across their range on April 30th, due to weak euro I think

Just wanted to thank you again for this information, I bought one on the 28th of April, and yes they have gone up by 8% (or perhaps slightly more) since then.

Thanks very much for the heads up!

Now I just have to wait until early July for the bike to arrive, I guess alot of others jumped in before the price rise as well so they have a backlog.