are sun beds really that bad?

mengele

was thinking of going to a sunbed just to start off a small bit of colour for the summer. was sitting out in the sun the last few days but im now fairly white from the winter. then when the sun comes on the june bank holiday I normally just get burnt because I have nothing to build on. was thinking of going maybe a once a week for the next four week for a foundation for the summer.

are they that dangerous even if it was just for 4 times?

LeinsterDub

mengele wrote: »

was thinking of going to a sunbed just to start off a small bit of colour for the summer. was sitting out in the sun the last few days but im now fairly white from the winter. then when the sun comes on the june bank holiday I normally just get burnt because I have nothing to build on. was thinking of going maybe a once a week for the next four week for a foundation for the summer.

are they that dangerous even if it was just for 4 times?

Is skin cancer all that dangerous?

theboy1

Yeah they can have bad effects, you should watch the documentary Final Destination 3,exposes the dangers of sunbeds.

Oryx

Tanning is a defensive process in the skin. Its not a good thing. All the stats about it are there.. premature ageing, cancer risk. If you want someone to say 4 sessions of accelerated tanning will be grand, we cant. You may not ever suffer any ill effects but its still a risk.

Arbiter of Good Taste

I'm afraid I can't remember the stats offhand but they are frightening. Why don't you just put on fake tan or one of those body moisturisers with a bit of tint in them?

Zillah

And yet we need sunlight for vitamin D and people get chronic depression without the sun. Damn you nature!

Alf Veedersane

Maybe just buy a higher SPF in case it's sunny on the June Bank Holiday.

deadlybuzzman

Zillah wrote:

And yet we need sunlight for vitamin D and people get chronic depression without the sun. Damn you nature!

On that point. Is the type of UV emitted by those beds the same type that's needed for vitamin D production?

rubadub

Zillah wrote: »

And yet we need sunlight for vitamin D and people get chronic depression without the sun. Damn you nature!

I read kids in Ireland are getting rickets due to lack of vitamin D, some partly due to over liberal use of sunscreen.

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

Is the type of UV emitted by those beds the same type that's needed for vitamin D production?

I think most are the wrong type, UVA light. You can get vitamin D bulbs for the sunbeds but not sure if they are that much different.

_Tombstone_

manky tans

Get off Facebook and stop looking at bullsh1t magazines OP.

lubie76

They are terrible for your skin and a colour from them won't do anything to protect you from getting burnt from natural sun rays. Beds emit mostly UVA rays which are the ageing waves so simply put, UVA Rays Age and UVB rays Burn. The Sun burns and ages but beds just age you and make you a peculiar shade of orange. That's even without the increased risk of skin cancer...Stay well clear!!

biZrb

mengele wrote: »

then when the sun comes on the june bank holiday I normally just get burnt because I have nothing to build on.

are they that dangerous even if it was just for 4 times?

Do you not use sun cream??!!
You can tan without getting burnt using sun cream, yes it takes longer but it so much safer than no sun cream and using sun beads.

WoollyRedHat

You know back in the day being pale was seen as a good thing, a mark of some noble person, rather than the poor tanned street sweeper.

Embrace your nobility.

Zillah

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

You know back in the day being pale was seen as a good thing, a mark of some noble person, rather than the poor tanned street sweeper.

Embrace your nobility.

In Asia they have whitening creams because being pale is considered desirable. I spent some time with some locals in Argentina and they explained that my pale Irish skin was something that was considered ideal for them. They fell over laughing when they heard my surname was White, too.

Jezek

To answer the question posed in the OP, yes, tanning beds are very dangerous. Even a few exposures could contribute to a melanoma. The OP is in even more danger as she is fair (another risk factor for melanoma). I am frankly amazed they are legal, they are pure carcinogen with no benefits at all.

OP also please keep safe during the summer from the sun, wear a hat and sunscreen and avoid directly sitting in the sun. Even a couple of bad sunburns can be directly related to melanoma.

Ivan.Drago

Do people really think that zero exposure to sun is the optimum amount? Surely people agree that some sun exposure is good - the argument is really over how much (without sun cream) is too much.

Zombienosh

I understand peoples temptations for sunbeds as we get so deprived of sun here.

Jezek

Ivan.Drago wrote: »

Do people really think that zero exposure to sun is the optimum amount? Surely people agree that some sun exposure is good - the argument is really over how much (without sun cream) is too much.

if you're burning at all - it's too much.

_Tombstone_

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

You know back in the day being pale was seen as a good thing, a mark of some noble person, rather than the poor tanned street sweeper.

Embrace your nobility.

I've always tought pale was nice, girls nowadays are brain washed by magazine/celebritys.

_Tombstone_

Jezek wrote: »

I am frankly amazed they are legal, they are pure carcinogen with no benefits at all.

OP also please keep safe during the summer from the sun, wear a hat and sunscreen and avoid directly sitting in the sun. Even a couple of bad sunburns can be directly related to melanoma.

Don't be so quick to plaster on sun screen either.

Their's a study...or its ongoing, on phone now hard to check, on what the affects of all those nano particles entering your body could be, Alzheimer's is a possibility.

Sheeeeit

When I was in Indonesia, I got random people coming up and asking for pictures with me on the beach and stuff. I wasn't sure if they thought I was hilariously white or they just saw me as a bit different because I'm pale but it was the weirdest experience of my life. Maybe they saw it as desirable and weren't actually laughing at me? haha

crestglan

Getting badly burnt in the sun is worse can cause worse damage to your skin than a few sessions on sun beds

Oryx

crestglan wrote: »

Getting badly burnt in the sun is worse can cause worse damage to your skin than a few sessions on sun beds

Both are bad, right?

Arbiter of Good Taste

crestglan wrote: »

Getting badly burnt in the sun is worse can cause worse damage to your skin than a few sessions on sun beds

It's not a matter of relatively. Just because - according to you - one is worse than the other, does not make it safe to use sunbeds

rubadub

post in the illness forum yesterday

seventeen sheep wrote: »

I was talking to a doctor yesterday, not my usual one, he's a specialist I was seeing for a different unrelated condition. Anyways the subject of my psoriasis came up, and he asked what I was using to treat it at the moment. I was a little embarrassed to mention the sunbeds, as I was expecting a lecture for it. However he was very positive about it. While it isn't his speciality, he has a personal interest in it as some friends and family members of his have it.

He said that of course the ideal treatment would be UVB therapy, but as that's too expensive and impractical for me at the moment, he said that 4-6 weeks of going on the sunbeds 3 times a week might get me very good results, however he wouldn't recommend doing it more than twice a year. Also that advice was given taking into account that I've only ever been on one or two sun holidays and amn't likely to be any time in the next few years, also I work indoors so have limited exposure to the sun.

As he said, I need to be very aware of the dangers of an increased risk of skin cancer - but he really doesn't think that it'll increase all that much if I limit it to only two bouts a year max (and I mightn't even need two every year, fingers crossed, if it works well enough.) And he said that taking that into consideration, I need to decide whether I'm willing to take the risk for an increased quality of life if it clears my psoriasis. As he put it, if a person decides to move to Australia for a year their risk of developing skin cancer will increase - same if someone goes on a couple of sun holidays a year - but very few people would let that put them off doing it just because of the increased risk.

Now he did say that, as a doctor, he couldn't officially recommend that I do it. But he said if he had psoriasis himself, it would be his first choice of treatment.

IBC any improvement with your skin at all yet? Sounds very similar to mine at the moment, although I'd say mine is worse. I can handle it most of the time as I'm used to buying clothes to hide it, but when it appears on my face and neck and the back of my hands it makes me SO self-conscious. And I know what you mean about the make-up flaking off. Which foundation are you using? I got a new one yesterday, link, along with the primer. While I don't think any foundation can stop/hide the flaking, at least this one has very good coverage, which makes a little bit of difference at least.

SpaceTime

Yes, they're that bad!
Just forget about being tanned and accept you're adapted to the climate of a cool, damp, cloud covered island!

A very high % of Irish people can't tan and trying is just causing damage. There's really no point and skin cancer is generally very nasty and definitely worth avoiding!

cloudatlas

The most common and prevalent form of cancer in Ireland is skin cancer.

You will look like this :mad: then this:(

crestglan

Sunbeds are not only used for tans they are also used for acne arthritis psoriasis a few mins every now and again to dry out skin or heat the bones has benifits

mister gullible

It seems they have invented machines to generate radiation. If you lie under them long enough they will temporarily change the colour of your skin and in some cases give you cancer. Please form an orderly queue . . .

Nermal

In Ireland there were an estimated 13.74 cases of malignant melanoma of skin per 100,000 adults in 2012

So let's say you're at risk for about 40 years, probably not that likely to get it before 40.

So your chance of getting it in your lifetime is (13.74/100,000) * 40 = 0.0055%

Using a sunbed increases the risk by 20%, to... around 0.0066%. If you're under 35, it increases it by 60%, to 0.01%.

The risk of actually dying from it is smaller still.

Not really worth worrying about?

Mellor

crestglan wrote: »

Sunbeds are not only used for tans they are also used for acne arthritis psoriasis a few mins every now and again to dry out skin or heat the bones has benifits

UV radiation doesn't heat, and also does penetrate to you bones.
That's infra-red radiation.

Nermal wrote: »

In Ireland there were an estimated 13.74 cases of malignant melanoma of skin per 100,000 adults in 2012

So let's say you're at risk for about 40 years, probably not that likely to get it before 40.

So your chance of getting it in your lifetime is (13.74/100,000) * 40 = 0.0055%

Using a sunbed increases the risk by 20%, to... around 0.0066%. If you're under 35, it increases it by 60%, to 0.01%.

The risk of actually dying from it is smaller still.

Not really worth worrying about?

A couple of mistakes there I think.
You didn't multiple by 100 to convert decimal to a percent.

The total incident rate of melanoma in 2012 was 18.80
Women were more at risk, around 21-23/100k.

Your lifetime risk is over almost your whole life. Certainly not only 40 years.
NCRI data calculates the lifetime risk for 2010-2012 to be 1.5%. (as high as 1.8% women on 2010).

A 20% increase is a bit more serious now.

(source: http://www.ncri.ie/data/incidence-statistics).


Plus skin cancer is more than just melanoma, Carcinoma is much more common. Sunbed use increases carcinoma risk by a greater amount. S.C. Carcinoma risk is increased by 90% for example. Lifetime risk for carcinoma is about 14%.
Sure carcinoma is the most survivable cancer, but I'd rather not bump my risk to the 25% range

guile4582

mengele wrote: »

was thinking of going to a sunbed just to start off a small bit of colour for the summer. was sitting out in the sun the last few days but im now fairly white from the winter. then when the sun comes on the june bank holiday I normally just get burnt because I have nothing to build on. was thinking of going maybe a once a week for the next four week for a foundation for the summer.

are they that dangerous even if it was just for 4 times?

do you even lift?

crestglan

With those case studies thank God we don't see the sun too often in Ireland

sunny 426

I can only agree with the last post. The absolute risk is still very low about getting skin cancer. An increase of risk makes it sound very scary. But the actual likely risk in proportion is very tiny. They just want to scare everybody away from using sunbeds.

GladWrap

Not true, Sunny. There have been several clinical studies directly related to solarium use in Australia (where a lot of people die from skin cancer) and these studies have proven a direct and regular correlation leading State governments here to ban their use.

adamshare01

Sunbeds give out ultraviolet (UV) rays that increase your risk of developing skin cancer (both malignant melanoma and non-melanoma). Many sunbeds give out greater doses of UV rays than the midday tropical sun.

The risks are greater for young people. Evidence shows that:
people who are frequently exposed to UV rays before 25 years of age are at greater risk of developing skin cancer later in life
sunburn in childhood can greatly increase the risk of developing skin cancer later in life

uki

You are saying that because sunbeds are as strong as the sun or even stronger than sunlight that they are more dangerous than the sun. I agree that the rays from sunbeds can be as strong or even stronger than sunlight. However this is not always the case. New regulation restricts the maximum strength of sunbeds to 0,3 watt m2. That makes it much safer than under old sunbed legislation.

Also if a sunbeds is for example 2 or 3 x stronger than the outdoor sun - you still get less uv light onto your body than in the outdoor sun. This is because you only go for a few minutes on the sunbed. When you go to the beach you are probably there for at least 1-3 hours. You cannot compare like for like. Exaample: The bed is twice as strong and you go for 10 minutes. That compares it to 20 minute in the outdoor sun (if the bed is twice as strong)! Most people spend 1/2 day on the beach when on holiday- some the whole day. What is more dangerous????

uki

To Gladwrap!

If have my doubts about these studies! How can you proof that the people got the cancer from the sunbed - especially if they are living in a sunny climate like Australia. They could have got the skin cancer from the outdoor sun. This is actually much more likely. The majority of the population does not even use sunbeds. It is much more likely that if they got skin cancer that it is triggered from the outdoor sun.(SUNBURN IN CHILDHOOD ESPECIALLY) When tanning in a sunbed you do not burn (unless you are reckless with yourself and you overdo it.) When you use a sunbed before going on holidays you are less likely to get a nasty sunburn - which is much worse!

Alf Veedersane

Being the least worst option isn't justification for doing something you don't need to.

Mellor

uki wrote: »

You are saying that because sunbeds are as strong as the sun or even stronger than sunlight that they are more dangerous than the sun.

Nobody said that is the strength is why are bad.
"The sun" isn't a particularly good benchmark for safe. Especially in climate where you will tan.

Also, you logic in multipling the strength and time is ludacrious.
Whats more damaging, putting your hand in a pot of water at 100 degrees for 1 minute, or bath of water at 40 degrees for half an hour?

uki wrote: »

To Gladwrap!

If have my doubts about these studies! How can you proof that the people got the cancer from the sunbed - especially if they are living in a sunny climate like Australia. They could have got the skin cancer from the outdoor sun. This is actually much more likely. The majority of the population does not even use sunbeds. It is much more likely that if they got skin cancer that it is triggered from the outdoor sun.

It's quite easy to figure out.
Take a random 1000 people who use sunbeds.
Take 1000 random people who don't.
Compare the skin cancer rates in each group.
If the sunbed group has a significantly higher rate of cancer, and the sunbeds are the only variable.
Even in a climate like Australia this will be the case. Sunbeds are banned in every state in Australia now.

uki

THE TRUTH ABOUT SUNBEDS
• Sunbeds have been categorised as ‘Group 1’. ‘Group 1’ means that there is evidence that the use of sunbeds may increase the risk of skin cancer.
• The information is not new. Sunlight is in the same category as sunbeds and has been in that category since 1992!
• Since 1992, thousands of doctors have recommended moderate exposure to sunlight for a variety of health benefits. In fact, a lot of prominent Vitamin D experts are convinced that the benefits of sunlight outweigh the risks by far.
• Being in the ‘Group 1’ category does not say anything about the size of the risk, just that there is any risk at all. Some things in the category are very dangerous, like arsenic and mustard gas. Other substances only carry a very small risk, like red wine, beer and salted fish.
• News stories that say things like ‘tanning is as dangerous as arsenic’ are flat-out wrong. The scientists have not made that kind of comparison at all, only reporters looking for a scary headline.
• All the news stories are working off a press release and no reporter has actually read the report which classifies sunbeds as Group 1.
The Myth – Using sunbeds causes skin cancer
It is overexposure and abuse of sunbeds, just like over exposure to sunlight, which is associated with health risks.
The Facts…
There is no difference between natural sunlight and sunbeds; sunbeds produce the same UV light as the sun. Research has shown that in countries with the most annual sunshine, there are the fewest cases of Colon, Prostate and Breast Cancer - thus refuting the link between UV light and Cancer conveyed by the media.
The media say that sunbeds produce stronger UV rays than the sun but you are only on a sunbed for around an average of 8 minutes - not 8 hours!
Scientific studies suggest that drinking red wine or other alcoholic beverages carries a greater cancer risk than tanning.
Sunbeds have been categorised as ‘Group 1’ – other things included in this category include red wine, salted fish and regular sunlight as well as mustard gas and arsenic. To say that a glass of red wine is as deadly as mustard gas is ridiculous, as is the comparison of sunbeds to such toxins.
Sunbed use in itself has a number of health benefits. It is over exposure to UV light (from BOTH sunbeds and natural sunlight) that causes health risks.
Benefits of Sunbeds
Sunbed use can improve psychological wellbeing – it can increase confidence and self-esteem whilst also offering a source of relaxation.
It can help to alleviate the symptoms of SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder) or Winter Blues. Many people experience depressive symptoms during winter and these symptoms can be reduced through moderate sunbed use.
UV light can help to improve various skin conditions like Psoriasis, Eczema and Acne.

Trent Houseboat

Mellor wrote: »

It's quite easy to figure out.
Take a random 1000 people who use sunbeds.
Take 1000 random people who don't.
Compare the skin cancer rates in each group.
If the sunbed group has a significantly higher rate of cancer, and the sunbeds are the only variable.
Even in a climate like Australia this will be the case. Sunbeds are banned in every state in Australia now.

People who use sun beds are probably more likely to lay out in the sun for hours/not use sun block.
I haven't seen these studies, so I don't know if they're controlled for.

By the way, I'm not advocating the use of sunbeds. I wouldn't go near one (though I wouldn't lie out in the sun here)

Alf Veedersane

uki wrote: »

THE TRUTH ABOUT SUNBEDS
• Sunbeds have been categorised as ‘Group 1’. ‘Group 1’ means that there is evidence that the use of sunbeds may increase the risk of skin cancer.
• The information is not new. Sunlight is in the same category as sunbeds and has been in that category since 1992!
• Since 1992, thousands of doctors have recommended moderate exposure to sunlight for a variety of health benefits. In fact, a lot of prominent Vitamin D experts are convinced that the benefits of sunlight outweigh the risks by far.
• Being in the ‘Group 1’ category does not say anything about the size of the risk, just that there is any risk at all. Some things in the category are very dangerous, like arsenic and mustard gas. Other substances only carry a very small risk, like red wine, beer and salted fish.
• News stories that say things like ‘tanning is as dangerous as arsenic’ are flat-out wrong. The scientists have not made that kind of comparison at all, only reporters looking for a scary headline.
• All the news stories are working off a press release and no reporter has actually read the report which classifies sunbeds as Group 1.
The Myth – Using sunbeds causes skin cancer
It is overexposure and abuse of sunbeds, just like over exposure to sunlight, which is associated with health risks.
The Facts…
There is no difference between natural sunlight and sunbeds; sunbeds produce the same UV light as the sun. Research has shown that in countries with the most annual sunshine, there are the fewest cases of Colon, Prostate and Breast Cancer - thus refuting the link between UV light and Cancer conveyed by the media.
The media say that sunbeds produce stronger UV rays than the sun but you are only on a sunbed for around an average of 8 minutes - not 8 hours!
Scientific studies suggest that drinking red wine or other alcoholic beverages carries a greater cancer risk than tanning.
Sunbeds have been categorised as ‘Group 1’ – other things included in this category include red wine, salted fish and regular sunlight as well as mustard gas and arsenic. To say that a glass of red wine is as deadly as mustard gas is ridiculous, as is the comparison of sunbeds to such toxins.
Sunbed use in itself has a number of health benefits. It is over exposure to UV light (from BOTH sunbeds and natural sunlight) that causes health risks.
Benefits of Sunbeds
Sunbed use can improve psychological wellbeing – it can increase confidence and self-esteem whilst also offering a source of relaxation.
It can help to alleviate the symptoms of SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder) or Winter Blues. Many people experience depressive symptoms during winter and these symptoms can be reduced through moderate sunbed use.
UV light can help to improve various skin conditions like Psoriasis, Eczema and Acne.

Well, if it's on the Totaltanning Faceboook page, I'm sold!

uki

It is recommended to get a minimum of 10 minutes every day of UV light to stay healthy. To stay away from UV light (sun or sunbeds) does mean that you have a higher chance of many other diseases (problems with bones etc). The anti sunbed / anti sunshine brigade has many people changed their behaviour to that extend that even children are so overly protected from uv light that there is a massive increase in rickets in Ireland. No sun = No absorbtion of calcium into your bones = health problems in later life!

I can only say that the right amount of sun is the amount that you do not get burned = plain simple. However it is not good to go crazy on it as anything good becomes bad when it is overdone. You ll always hear the negative about tanning. Rarely mentioned how good it is for your entire body if used IN MODERATION! I read a book from Dr. Holick and can only recommend it to anybody to get an honest answer.

Zillah

By tanning every day in a Totaltanning Sunbed (TM), and avoiding negative energies like vaccines, gluten, and tap water, I am going to live forever.

uki

I am not from total tanning TM and have nothing to do with that company. But I did read the article and I did a lot of INDEPENDENT RESEARCH. The conclusion is in the article that I posted earlier.

Alf Veedersane

uki wrote: »

I am not from total tanning TM and have nothing to do with that company. But I did read the article and I did a lot of INDEPENDENT RESEARCH. The conclusion is in the article that I posted earlier.

How much does it cost for a session on one of your sunbeds?

I live in Ireland and I have brittle bones from lack of sun and I would like to rectify this and increase my calcium absorption.

uki

Sorry I don't own sunbeds any more. But there are plenty of salons around the country. They are around 1 Euro minute seems to be the going rate.

rubadub

I do believe they could be good in moderation

Scientific studies suggest that drinking red wine or other alcoholic beverages carries a greater cancer risk than tanning

no amounts listed. You will often hear a glass of wine a day is good for you, and of course 3 bottles is not. I expect most sunbed users will be in the excessive 3 bottle category, and people are being presumptious and figure all users are just looking to get a dark brown tan.

I have a UVB light to treat psoriasis and did a fair bit of research into it, and I do not worry about the net effects of it.

uki

I can assure you from my previous career in the tanning business that most people use sunbeds in moderation. From the very few people that overuse them they are 90 % travellers. Thats just experience without being racist.

The wide majority stay within recommendations. There are actually European guidelines about indoor tanning. These recommended not to use sunbeds more than 60 times p.a.! That should give you a hint.

As I said dangerous overuse is very rare. And the hype about it is much more than reality.

It is like saying nearly all irish are alkoholics - which is not true. But if things are often enough repeated they become self fulfilling and people start believing anything that is going round. The more scandalous and hype the more interesting to talk about it.

diddley

rubadub wrote: »

I do believe they could be good in moderation


no amounts listed. You will often hear a glass of wine a day is good for you, and of course 3 bottles is not. I expect most sunbed users will be in the excessive 3 bottle category, and people are being presumptious and figure all users are just looking to get a dark brown tan.

I have a UVB light to treat psoriasis and did a fair bit of research into it, and I do not worry about the net effects of it.

Interesting post. I'm curious about this alright. A lot of people saying 'NO WAY - MELANOMA' but there's really no discussion about the differentiation between excessive (which, let's be honest, a lot of people do) and moderate use. It's confusing to me.