Episode 5x01 - 'The Wars to Come' - HAVE read the books [** Spoilers **]

Mr E

For tomorrow (discussion for those who are watching week to week, and HAVE read the books).

This is for Episode 1 ONLY.

Mr Freeze

Thought it was good, a bit slow as usual for a first episode.

They didn't re-introduce Rattle shirt, so I'm wondering have they actually killed off Mance now in the show. Its possible.

No Volanqar mentioned in the Maggy The Frog flashback, I thought that was the reason they were doing the whole flashback thing. Maybe they will show more of it as the show continues.

More Stannis please in the next episode, our one true king. :pac:

MrWalsh

Was thinking the same re Mance. Thought Hinds pulled that scene off very well, you could see his fear. Basically the Red Woman has become ISIS in my mind.

They have to be doing more of the flashback for Maggi the Frog - the bit of the prophecy we saw has all already happened. Wasnt terribly impressed with Australian Maggi.....

I missed what happened with Brienne and Podrick?

Loved the scene of Stannis and Davos standing looking out over the wall.

The dragons looked amazing, cant help but think of Harrenhal when I see them so big.

Thought it seemed a bit odd that Grey Worm wouldnt know why an unsullied would visit a brothel. Also that Missandei would ask him at all? She knows he has been cut so is she just hoping for an asexual relationship with him?

Ser Loras was great, he is such a courteous bloke, giving Cersei such a lovely impassioned speech in condolence. Funny to see Margery just wandering him on him and yer man.

Plenty of male nudity too so all good!

Mr Freeze

MrWalsh wrote: »

I missed what happened with Brienne and Podrick?

Brienne seems to be down in the dumps, lost faith in good lords to pledge her sword too as they are all either dead or bad in her eyes. She was telling Podrick to go away as he is not her squire, basically taking out her bad mood on him.

Then Sansa and Littlefinger roll by in a carriage.

The Vale must be quite small if Brienne can accidentally cross paths with both Stark girls, granted she didn't meet Sansa.

MrWalsh

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Brienne seems to be down in the dumps, lost faith in good lords to pledge her sword too as they are all either dead or bad in her eyes. She was telling Podrick to go away as he is not her squire, basically taking out her bad mood on him.

Then Sansa and Littlefinger roll by in a carriage.

The Vale must be quite small if Brienne can accidentally cross paths with both Stark girls, granted she didn't meet Sansa.

Thanks for filling me in! I got the initial bit with Brienne being down in the dumps.

Yeah the Vale must be small alright! Did Brienne see that it was Littlefinger and Sansa?

There must be only one main route to/from the Bloody Gate for all these accidental meetings.

Jofspring

No Brienne didn't even look over I don't think. It looked like just Podrick.

I enjoyed it. Was confused by Mance alright. Don't know whether to take it that he is actually dead or not. There was nothing to give us any inkling that it wasn't Mance.

They will definitely re-visit Maggi as the season goes on.

Lancel looked completely different, I had to check and it seems to be the same actor just bulked up a bit with shorter hair.

The episodes feel so short for some reason.

MrWalsh

Jofspring wrote: »

Lancel looked completely different, I had to check and it seems to be the same actor just bulked up a bit with shorter hair.

Oh yeah, I meant to check that. I watch with a non book reader and he hadnt a clue who it was meant to be.

Also no sign of Dalla - so presumably they have definitely done away with that storyline? I did think that when there was no sign of her by the end of last season but surely its far too late for her now?

Turtyturd

As said it was a good episode to re-establish everyone and their various storylines. Although cue the usual poster to criticise every aspect of it.

Some really good effect scenes; Stannis looking out over the wall, the dragons, and the statue being torn down.

Not exactly sure what to make of the scene with Mance. It is possible that he was killed off and theon will rescue fake Arya by himself. But Mance is integral to the pink letter, could they do it without him? I also thought it was (intentionally) overacted, especially the facial expressions.

Son0vagun

I was disappointed that the they didn't do the whole thing of Tywins corpse stinking the cypt out. It would have added to the whole Tywin was poisoned theory. Now it makes Tyrion a cursed Kinslayer.

Mr Freeze

Turtyturd wrote: »

Not exactly sure what to make of the scene with Mance. It is possible that he was killed off and theon will rescue fake Arya by himself. But Mance is integral to the pink letter, could they do it without him?

I'd say they will cut the pink letter, which is a shame.

I think Brienne and Pod are going to replace Mance and the spearwives, what else are they going to do? if the Riverlands plot is cut in favour of Dorne.

Son0vagun

I reckon they will do the Ghost of Winterfell, ie the Hooded Man. I'm guessing it will be The Blackfish, but does anyone else have ideas?

podgemonster

Son0vagun wrote: »

I reckon they will do the Ghost of Winterfell, ie the Hooded Man. I'm guessing it will be The Blackfish, but does anyone else have ideas?

No sign of the Brotherhood since season 3, could easily infiltrate Winterfell if there's no Stone Heart story line.

Son0vagun

podgemonster wrote: »

No sign of the Brotherhood since season 3, could easily infiltrate Winterfell if there's no Stone Heart story line.

Don't think they'd have a motive unless LSH is their leader.

Mr Freeze

Son0vagun wrote: »

I reckon they will do the Ghost of Winterfell......

I'd be expecting that to be cut too.

podgemonster

Son0vagun wrote: »

Don't think they'd have a motive unless LSH is their leader.

What was their motive in the first place. Kill Lannisters.
Who are the Boltons Loyal to? The Lannisters
Who commanded Ser Beric to ride North and defend the Riverlands, Ned Stark

The Blackfish's priority would be Riverrun and Edmure's safety. Plus he's a legendary broad towering knight as recognizable as Brienne. Still wouldn't stop the show writers from ignoring that logic and simply having him in there for the craic.

Son0vagun

Tell there is a theory that it's Blackfish in WF doing the killing. LSH was all about hanging the Freys, she doesn't care about Lannisters.

podgemonster

Son0vagun wrote: »

Tell there is a theory that it's Blackfish in WF doing the killing. LSH was all about hanging the Freys, she doesn't care about Lannisters.

Doesn't she?
Who'd did she send Brienne to fetch for her?

Jaime Something?

Son0vagun

As far as I know she has only hanged Freys so far.

GetInTheHole!

Not happy - not happy with that at all.

If that was the real Mance there - it's a sign of how freely they will cut from the books going forward.
I appreciate that some arcs are not possible for TV but it would not have taken much to introduce Rattleshirt etc. in that episode.

If that was Mance then that is yet another significant part of the books now just disregarded.

Aisde from that point - I thought the episode was pretty underwelming.

astrofool

Turtyturd wrote: »

As said it was a good episode to re-establish everyone and their various storylines. Although cue the usual poster to criticise every aspect of it.

Some really good effect scenes; Stannis looking out over the wall, the dragons, and the statue being torn down.

Not exactly sure what to make of the scene with Mance. It is possible that he was killed off and theon will rescue fake Arya by himself. But Mance is integral to the pink letter, could they do it without him? I also thought it was (intentionally) overacted, especially the facial expressions.

The long lingering looks implied that the swap was with Tormund Giantsbane rather than rattle shirt.

MrWalsh

astrofool wrote: »

The long lingering looks implied that the swap was with Tormund Giantsbane rather than rattle shirt.

Interesting article on it here:

http://watchersonthewall.com/rattleshirt-recast/

Liam O

GetInTheHole! wrote: »

Not happy - not happy with that at all.

If that was the real Mance there - it's a sign of how freely they will cut from the books going forward.
I appreciate that some arcs are not possible for TV but it would not have taken much to introduce Rattleshirt etc. in that episode.

If that was Mance then that is yet another significant part of the books now just disregarded.

Aisde from that point - I thought the episode was pretty underwelming.

Rattleshirt has already been introduced and was standing behind Tormund. In shot and all.

johnnyskeleton

Another series, another accent for Aiden Gillen. This time its twee Oirish with less of the gravelyness or sibilance. Of course, this is presumably to show that this is in fact the real Petyr Baelish, the poor country lad.

Mickeroo

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Another series, another accent for Aiden Gillen. This time its twee Oirish with less of the gravelyness or sibilance. Of course, this is presumably to show that this is in fact the real Petyr Baelish, the poor country lad.

No, he's just really rubbish with accents, apart from in The Wire for some reason.

Mr Freeze

Not a lot of chat this year is there? Only 16 posts in the HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS Thread.

Its either due to the leaked episodes or maybe viewers are dropping.

MrWalsh

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Not a lot of chat this year is there? Only 16 posts in the HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS Thread.

Its either due to the leaked episodes or maybe viewers are dropping.

Yeah its quiet alright, I was a little bit underwhelmed by it myself - even though I enjoyed it.

podgemonster

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Not a lot of chat this year is there? Only 16 posts in the HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS Thread.

Its either due to the leaked episodes or maybe viewers are dropping.

It's definitely due to the leaked eps. I'd imagine viewing figures are stronger than ever. More and more people are talking about it.

MrWalsh

podgemonster wrote: »

It's definitely due to the leaked eps. I'd imagine viewing figures are stronger than ever. More and more people are talking about it.

People who would have ordinarily posted in the episode threads are posting in the 1-4 discussion threads? Im afraid to go near them until Ive watched all 4!

And seeing as there are no other individual episode threads yet Im stuck here - even though Im dying to discuss episode 2!

Riskymove

Liam O wrote: »

Rattleshirt has already been introduced and was standing behind Tormund. In shot and all.

yeah I'd be surprised if they made it Tormund as he is a good character in the series

Jofspring

astrofool wrote: »

The long lingering looks implied that the swap was with Tormund Giantsbane rather than rattle shirt.

That's what I was thinking too. It was hard to know was giantsbane just finding it hard to see Mance burn or was Giantsbane(Mance) finding it hard to watch someone in his place. Thing is when could the change over have happened? Giantsbane has been on the opposite side of the wall a long while now and the two seem to have been kept separate since becoming captive.

If it's still to be rattleshirt then I suppose it could have happened before Stannis arrived. The lack of rattleshirt though means it will kind of come out of nowhere rather. Most people won't even remember rattleshirt from season 3.

Sleepy

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Not a lot of chat this year is there? Only 16 posts in the HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS Thread.

Its either due to the leaked episodes or maybe viewers are dropping.

I'd say a combination of the leaked episodes and more people having read the books at this stage!

ibarelycare

My excitement for GoT has waned a little. I think the show would be much more enjoyable if I'd never read the books tbh. So many theories being debunked is quite disappointing.

I think I'm just going to try and view the rest of the series with the books out of my mind...if I can!

In saying that I enjoyed the opening episode. I wasn't expecting a whole lot from the season opener but there were some great scenes.

Iwasfrozen

It's a pity they've skipped so much, the Kingsmoot, evil pirate wizard, crazy prophet of the Drowned God, the boat to violantis on the river Rhyonar, the stone men and carying that back to Westeros as well as Faegon, his invasion of Westeros with the support of the Golden Company and Varys.

The biggest shame is skipping Lady Stoneheart, she's such a cool character and seeing tens of bodies hanging from trees would have been creepy as hell.

Cookiemunster

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's a pity they've skipped so much, the Kingsmoot, evil pirate wizard, crazy prophet of the Drowned God, the boat to violantis on the river Rhyonar, the stone men and carying that back to Westeros as well as Faegon, his invasion of Westeros with the support of the Golden Company and Varys.

The biggest shame is skipping Lady Stoneheart, she's such a cool character and seeing tens of bodies hanging from trees would have been creepy as hell.

It's still possible for a lot of that to happen. This is epsiode 1 of season 5. AFFC and ADWD are being spread across season 5 and 6 and there's plenty can be put into season 6.

Mickeroo

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It's still possible for a lot of that to happen. This is epsiode 1 of season 5. AFFC and ADWD are being spread across season 5 and 6 and there's plenty can be put into season 6.

I reckon most of those books will be covered this season?

My only qualm with the show is it really suffers when you only watch an episode a week, the story just isn't episodic enough for me. Unfortunately I don't have the restraint to wait 3 months to binge watch it.

Mr Freeze

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It's still possible for a lot of that to happen. This is epsiode 1 of season 5. AFFC and ADWD are being spread across season 5 and 6 and there's plenty can be put into season 6.

I'd say Seasons 5 and 6 will have as much from TWOW as the other 2 books.

They really are gutting books 4 and 5. No siege of Meereen possibly now that it and Yunkai have surrendered. So there is no need for the Greyjoys, and Tyrion can go straight to Meereen, picking up Jorah along the way or get picked up by him. Dany can fly off then on Drogon at some point, no battle for Meereen will take place.

This also means that Griff and young Griff will not be in the show, this eliminates another large plot thread.

Mance gone now too. So no spearwives infiltration of Winterfell and possibly no pink letter to Jon. (I really like this part of the book)....

Dammit, I've gone and ranted, it was not my intention to give out about the show as I really enjoy it. I think some good stuff is being cut in favour of trimming the fat, which is fine, but why do we have extra scenes like the Grey Worm love stuff and that awful beetles speech from last season. They add nothing, and we might be better served with some extra bits from the book instead.

MrWalsh

Mr Freeze wrote: »

This also means that Griff and young Griff will not be in the show, this eliminates another large plot thread.

:eek:

Mickeroo

Just to make sure my memory of the book is accurate, the wildlings joining Stannis or the NW was Jon's idea in the book wasn't it? And was Jon Lord Commander by now?

Mr Freeze

Mickeroo wrote: »

Just to make sure my memory of the book is accurate, the wildlings joining Stannis or the NW was Jon's idea in the book wasn't it? And was Jon Lord Commander by now?

I think he was Lord Commander by the end of book 3.

And ya I think the wildlings joining Stannis or the NW was Jon's idea, along with telling Stannis how to win over Northern Lords and Hill Tribes to his cause too.

Mormegil

Mickeroo wrote: »

Just to make sure my memory of the book is accurate, the wildlings joining Stannis or the NW was Jon's idea in the book wasn't it? And was Jon Lord Commander by now?

In the books some Wildings actually join the Nights Watch but the majority don't.

However Jon does make a deal with the rest that they can occupy the empty Castles on the Wall (plus The Gift) as long as they defend it (so basically making them unofficial Night's watch).


Stannis actually recruits the northern Mountain Clans (Flints, Wulls etc) for his attack on Winterfell rather than the Wildlings.

Liam O

The hope is that this season deals with Dorne and then there's 2 or 3 pure Greyjoy episodes next season so they can get the new actors in. I'm hoping they are just splitting it up instead of just purely cutting out Aegon, the Greyjoys and some of the other stories.

TheDoctor

Yes, I'm hoping that the producers decided that introducing the Martells/Dorne and the Greyjoys/Iron Islands in the one season might have been a bit much and so have left the Greyjoys until Season 6.

podgemonster

One thing I will say; Lancel Lannister really seems to have dedicated his life to the Seven

1. Bench Press
2. Squats
3. Shoulder Press
4. Bicep Curls
5. Leg Curls
6. Sit-ups
7. Protein Shakes

MrWalsh

podgemonster wrote: »

One thing I will say; Lancel Lannister really seems to have dedicated his life to the Seven

1. Bench Press
2. Squats
3. Shoulder Press
4. Bicep Curls
5. Leg Curls
6. Sit-ups
7. Protein Shakes

I wasnt sure it was the same actor!

Hyzepher

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Mance gone now too. So no spearwives infiltration of Winterfell and possibly no pink letter to Jon. (I really like this part of the book)....

I'd say the Mance reveal is still on.

Sleepy

What makes you think that Hyzepher? I really think it falls into the Lady Stoneheart area of the novels and that it'll be cut as a result...

FunLover18

I think it'll be Tormund going to Winterfell instead of Mance. He's had more screen time throughout the series and audiences are more familiar with him. I just can't see any way of convincing us that someone willingly did the switcheroo with Mance. Am I right in thinking that in the books there was no exchange between Mance and Stannis in the books directly before the burning?

FunLover18

ALSO who actually cares about Greyworm's love life? It's a non story I wish they'd stop wasting screen time on it.

mullyboyee

One good thing about the show veering away from the books is that there will surely be less "Predictions" over in the non-book readers thread.

Had completely forgotten about all those until I started reading the thread again.

I've read the books so it doesn't bother me what people post over there. Guess we're all in the dark together now

Hyzepher

Sleepy wrote: »

What makes you think that Hyzepher? I really think it falls into the Lady Stoneheart area of the novels and that it'll be cut as a result...

Well it's not ruled out. Played out more or less the same in the books until we realised magic was used.

Also, is Sansa's storyline now completely ahead of the books?

Jofspring

Hyzepher wrote: »

Well it's not ruled out. Played out more or less the same in the books until we realised magic was used.

Also, is Sansa's storyline now completely ahead of the books?

Ya it seems Sansa' storyline is gone ahead alright. It may not even be going the same route as the book might.