Isn't it time for school uniforms to be scrapped at this stage???

jamie124

Hi There,
So i said I would just start a thread to something I am so curious about which is School Uniforms , I mean come on , Yes there are advantages but many many Disadvantages.
ADVANTAGES:
1. Less cost on parents.
2. More equal situation in school.
ermmm..... That's it :mad::mad:
DISADVANTAGES:
1. Extremely uncomfortable - Especially the shirts like they are made out of cheap s**t material.
2. No way of expressing ourselves at all.
3. They are torture in the hot weather.
the list goes on.......

But I think that uniforms should be ABOLISHED COMPLETELY as this will bring more freedom to us second level students.....

P.S. - My uniform is made out of crap and literally gives my armpits a rash and I sweat like a RIVER in my uniform and so does everyone else in my class..... JUST WANT THEM GONE FOREVER.

Inspector Coptoor

Nothing to stop you getting a better quality shirt or wearing a t shirt or vest underneath.

I like uniforms

mrsoundie

Scrap uniforms, then the fashion race begins, more money.

ThisRegard

mrsoundie wrote: »

Scrap uniforms, then the fashion race begins, more money.

That's the real problem. And ostracism and bullying will stem for not being "with it" or wearing the wrong clothes, or even wearing the same outfit too often.

Just ask your parents to get you better quality clothes.

Nothing wrong with uniforms in principle, though admittedly some seem designed to be as unflattering as possible, which can't be a good educational message to a teen.

mirrorwall14

Survey in a school I taught in once ran a survey and had 96% wanting uniform retained. There's a lot of support out there

miezekatze

I think it would be good if school uniforms were at least updated a bit. Some schools really seem to go over the top, I've heard of kids not being allowed to wear jackets to school that are not school branded, girls not being allowed to wear tights, etc. I think something more comfortable would be better for the kids and I don't think it's right that girls have to wear skirts. I would have hated that as a child (grew up in a country that doesnt have school uniforms).

lillian770

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Survey in a school I taught in once ran a survey and had 96% wanting uniform retained. There's a lot of support out there

Kind of a strange result. I would have expected most kids not to like uniforms.

byhookorbycrook

Most primary schools surveyed parents recently on uniforms, most parents want them. In secondary I can see why many pupils would want to keep them. How can girls not be allowed to wear tights?!?

syklops

Im so glad my secondary school had uniforms. Even then, the shoes had to be a certain type but not a specific make, so one guy had Ralph Lauren shoes and I had penneys own brand. Sports clothes were compulsory but not specific, so I was ridiculed for about 3 years for my choice in sports wear. That really encouraged me to embrace sports :rolleyes:

I hated going back to school on Sunday evenings because everyone would be in their casual clothes and I didn't have the confidence to have my own style and just wear what I want, and everyone else would be there with their nice looking, often, branded clothing.

Once a term we had "colours day" where you paid a euro or two and were allowed not wear uniform, usually on the last day of term. I regularly pretended I didnt have the two euro because the uniform was preferential to my crappy clothes. (And oftentimes I didnt have the 2 euro)

I'm glad my school had a uniform, and I bet, in a secret ballot, many kids would vote for it as well.

miezekatze

I think at some schools they can only wear socks. Felt really bad for them during the winter! It seems like a really pointless rule too.

In my home country they started introducing uniforms at some schools as there was too much peer pressure on kids to dress in certain brands etc, but they just got trousers and a t-shirt or sweater with the school logo, that kind of thing. No scratchy jumpers and shapeless skirts.

qt3.14

Scrap the 18th century ones sure. Stick the kids in generic track suits or slacks etc. Make badges available for sewing on rather than bespoke emroidered jumpers.

riffmongous

An austrian friend of mine asked me about this recently, and I gave the same answers given here, but she said to me that when she was growing up in Austria with no uniforms it was never an issue in the 3 schools she went to or any of her friend's.. and it's definitely not that bullying wasn't an issue. What is it that makes this a problem in Ireland?

syklops

miezekatze wrote: »

I think at some schools they can only wear socks. Felt really bad for them during the winter! It seems like a really pointless rule too.

In my home country they started introducing uniforms at some schools as there was too much peer pressure on kids to dress in certain brands etc, but they just got trousers and a t-shirt or sweater with the school logo, that kind of thing. No scratchy jumpers and shapeless skirts.

In my secondary school girls could wear navy cords during the winter months, once summer came in it was back to skirts for them.

I'm fine with everyone having to wear the same stuff, but in some schools they really seem to go out of their way for the uniforms to be unsightly or uncomfortable. The Tech near me had a uniform of brown. I remember a friend of mine in her school uniform. She was a pretty girl in regular clothes, but a ginger girl, pale skin and freckles in a brown sweater, brown skirt and brown tie with white and brown knee high socks, made her almost hideous looking in uniform.

An austrian friend of mine asked me about this recently, and I gave the same answers given here, but she said to me that when she was growing up in Austria with no uniforms it was never an issue in the 3 schools she went to or any of her friend's.. and it's definitely not that bullying wasn't an issue. What is it that makes this a problem in Ireland?

Maybe your friend was one of the people with the cool clothes and was never picked on due to her clothing.

seavill

It wasn't an issue for her or her friends most likely because they weren't the people described earlier that didn't have the money for the branded things.
It's a problem for the ones who keep quiet. The ones that "forget" about the non uniform day every time.

evolving_doors

no

peckerhead

Now get back to your work.

seamus

I suspect bullying is a bit of a non-issue in this regard. Kids still get bullied where schools have uniforms. Popular kids who wear cheap or unbranded clothes will get a bit of a slagging from their mates, but won't get bullied. Unpopular kids who wear trendy clothes will still get bullied and have their expensive clothes vandalised or stolen.

That said, I have no issue in principle with school uniforms, though I think strict uniforms are pushing it a bit, and something a bit more akin to workplace rules would work better - schools would still maintain a "style" while parents could do what suits their budget best and children can wear stuff that's more comfortable. That is, the school choose a colour scheme (such as navy), and the parents work within that. You restrict the types of clothes that can be worn - no jeans, nothing with a badge, etc - and make it gender neutral; girls can wear pants if they want, etc.
That way, if someone wants to buy their kid a cashmere John Rocha, they can fire away, it'll look just like the polyester Penney's jumper worn by the next guy.

ThisRegard

I've seen bullying because of clothing first hand, even because of footwear worn with a uniform. Unfortunately it does happen. Slagging, if vindictive, is bullying and probably more hurtful in the long run than the occasional dead arm.

My daughters school allow the uniform to be bought anywhere and you can then buy the school crest to sew on. They also have a 'preferred' supplier where it's all done. I reckon any good parents council should be able to get this type of thing in.

spurious

When we amalgamated with another school, the question of uniforms came up. Only one of the amalgamating schools had a uniform, but a student vote showed that a large majority of the students going into the 'new' school wanted one. When we ran a competition to design the uniform, we really expected them to come up wih crazy designs, but what was chosen by vote was very close to existing uniforms of other schools around the city.

rainbowtrout

Our school sent out surveys last year about uniforms and there was an overwhelming vote to keep the uniform. It came up in my classes a few times and surprisingly students in my classes mentioned the fact that they would like blazers, which the school I work in doesn't have. They thought they looked smart and were willing to wear them to school as part of the uniform.

On the OP's post, uniforms can be expensive but they are worn 5 days a week for 8-9 months of the year. There is value in that. Plenty of parents buy clothes for their children, or teenagers buy clothes for themselves that are equally expensive that fall apart in no time or don't get the same amount of wear and tear before they are discarded.

evolving_doors

Scenario 1: Parent Shouting up stairs:Hurry on, get up get uniform we need to leave now.

Scenario 2: hurry on, get up get dressed we need to leave now.
Teenage reply, Ive nothing to wear I need new clothes, cue breakdown.

mrsoundie

I myself have to wear a uniform for employment purposes (not McDonalds, I know you are thinking that) and there is a certain relief or joy from changing out of it.

jamie124

Yes sure , But the school could have a "within reason" dress code example: No Student should be made feel like they must wear designer clothes etc... There really is ways around it.....

katydid

jamie124 wrote: »

Hi There,
So i said I would just start a thread to something I am so curious about which is School Uniforms , I mean come on , Yes there are advantages but many many Disadvantages.
ADVANTAGES:
1. Less cost on parents.
2. More equal situation in school.
ermmm..... That's it :mad::mad:
DISADVANTAGES:
1. Extremely uncomfortable - Especially the shirts like they are made out of cheap s**t material.
2. No way of expressing ourselves at all.
3. They are torture in the hot weather.
the list goes on.......

But I think that uniforms should be ABOLISHED COMPLETELY as this will bring more freedom to us second level students.....

P.S. - My uniform is made out of crap and literally gives my armpits a rash and I sweat like a RIVER in my uniform and so does everyone else in my class..... JUST WANT THEM GONE FOREVER.

Definitely. No young person in their right mind would chose what they are forced to wear as uniforms.

And as a teacher I hated having rows of look-alikes sitting in front of me, and having to enforce petty rules about colour of socks or wearing of ties. I taught in Germany, where there is no uniform, and the students had a much better relationship with their teachers, because they respected the rules that were in the school, and didn't resent them.

I haven't taught people in uniforms for twenty years now, and it's so nice to see young people expressing themselves in whatever way they want through their clothes or their hair or make up.

I suspect, though, that you and I are in a minority.

katydid

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Nothing to stop you getting a better quality shirt or wearing a t shirt or vest underneath.

I like uniforms

Are YOU forced to wear one?

Inspector Coptoor

katydid wrote: »

Are YOU forced to wear one?

Of sorts, yes.
Shirt, jacket, slacks, shoes.

katydid

mrsoundie wrote: »

Scrap uniforms, then the fashion race begins, more money.

No, it doesn't. People wear the "uniform" of youth - hoodies, jeans or trackies. They ring the changes with their own twists to it, but in the twenty years I've been teaching students who have no uniform, it's not an issue.

It's only an issue on "no uniform day" in uniformed schools, where the students, especially the girls, go to town on the one day they are allowed be individuals.

katydid

ThisRegard wrote: »

That's the real problem. And ostracism and bullying will stem for not being "with it" or wearing the wrong clothes, or even wearing the same outfit too often.

Just ask your parents to get you better quality clothes.

Ostracism and bullying can happen because you don't have the "right" shoes or phone or bag...bullies will always find a way.

It's no reason to stifle a young person's self expression.

katydid

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing wrong with uniforms in principle, though admittedly some seem designed to be as unflattering as possible, which can't be a good educational message to a teen.

Why don't you have a problem with them? Do you like young people to be stifled in their self expression?

Are YOU forced to wear a uniform?

katydid

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Most primary schools surveyed parents recently on uniforms, most parents want them. In secondary I can see why many pupils would want to keep them. How can girls not be allowed to wear tights?!?

Many second level students know nothing else than wearing uniform, and they have got used to the fact that you don't have to think in the morning about what to wear. They seem to think that's a good thing, because they know no better.

When they go on to FE or third level, and don't have to wear one any more, they realise how limiting that was. I've had discussions and debates with them, and the vast majority would not want to go back to uniforms, even if they were in favour of them when they were in secondary.

My own daughter found it very hard to adjust to having to wear a uniform in secondary. She went to a primary school where they had none, and she was used to waking up in the morning and dressing according to her mood. She really resented not being able to do that, and got into a lot of trouble in school for trying to put her own twist on the horrible uniform they had to wear.

Inspector Coptoor

School isn't a fashion show, nor should it be.
And I mean that for both students and teachers.

katydid

syklops wrote: »

In my secondary school girls could wear navy cords during the winter months, once summer came in it was back to skirts for them.
.

I just don't understand why that happens, and why parents put up with it. This isn't 1815.

katydid

seavill wrote: »

It wasn't an issue for her or her friends most likely because they weren't the people described earlier that didn't have the money for the branded things.
It's a problem for the ones who keep quiet. The ones that "forget" about the non uniform day every time.

Or maybe because young people are not as hung up on these things as we think? How come a seventeen year old can go to college and come in happily ever day to class without any hassle? How can entire classes of seventeen and eighteen year olds get through the whole day without bullying or sniping at each other over what they wear? How come kids in other countries don't make a big deal of it?

katydid

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Our school sent out surveys last year about uniforms and there was an overwhelming vote to keep the uniform. It came up in my classes a few times and surprisingly students in my classes mentioned the fact that they would like blazers, which the school I work in doesn't have. They thought they looked smart and were willing to wear them to school as part of the uniform. .

It's because these kids know no better, and because the easy way out is not to have to think. Our educational system should be encouraging them to think. Not to be sheep.

Lau2976

I think uniforms are good for schools and students. It's no doubt that some are a pain, my own was a kilt that had to be below calf lenght with a shirt and embroidered jumper and tie. All of which (minus the shirt) was only available at 1 shop even though I lived in dublin. No tights were allowed, no branded shoes (they had to be fully black) socks had to be black and knee lenght, we had a school jacket that had to be worn. Anything else would be confiscated. Pe was the same, plain white runners, embroidered "sports" jumper. Embroidered t shirt and o'neills. No exceptions. We were never allowed wear trousers for a full day ( had to change- even if you only had 1 class after pe) and weren't allowed wear trousers in the snow or rain. That's way OTT IMO but on a whole I think they really allow students to focus on studying.

rainbowtrout

katydid wrote: »

It's because these kids know no better, and because the easy way out is not to have to think. Our educational system should be encouraging them to think. Not to be sheep.

Katydid, it is possible for people to have opinions that are different to yours. Some students like having uniforms. The ones in my class came up with the blazer idea themselves. There are no schools that I'm familiar with in this part of the country that have them.

It's insulting to students for you to say that they know no better and they don't think for themselves. Not every student is hung up on having to express their individuality through their clothing every day in school. They have the opportunity to do that every evening after school, at weekends and during their holidays.

College students do get to wear their own clothes to college and guess what, they wear a uniform too. The vast majority of college students I encounter wear a combination of jeans (currently the skinny type)/tracksuit bottoms and hoodies typically of the Jack and Jones/Abercrombie and Fitch variety. I'm back in college this year and the clothing that most of students in my lab wear is the exact same.

We haven't had a non uniform day in my school in years and when we did it was much the same.

katydid

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

School isn't a fashion show, nor should it be.
And I mean that for both students and teachers.

I agree. And it's not. The only difference is that teachers have a choice in how they can dress, and students don't.

katydid

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Katydid, it is possible for people to have opinions that are different to yours. Some students like having uniforms. The ones in my class came up with the blazer idea themselves. There are no schools that I'm familiar with in this part of the country that have them.

It's insulting to students for you to say that they know no better and they don't think for themselves. Not every student is hung up on having to express their individuality through their clothing every day in school. They have the opportunity to do that every evening after school, at weekends and during their holidays.

College students do get to wear their own clothes to college and guess what, they wear a uniform too. The vast majority of college students I encounter wear a combination of jeans (currently the skinny type)/tracksuit bottoms and hoodies typically of the Jack and Jones/Abercrombie and Fitch variety. I'm back in college this year and the clothing that most of students in my lab wear is the exact same.

We haven't had a non uniform day in my school in years and when we did it was much the same.

When did I say people don't have a right to have an opinion?

It is my experience from over thirty years of teaching, first at second then at FE level that when students resent the petty rules around uniform, and that one they are out of the environment of uniform and encouraged to think for themselves, they don't favour uniforms. So that tells me that the reason they tend to opt for them when asked at second level is that they are not encouraged to explore out of their comfort zone.

You're right that most post LC students wear a "uniform" of sorts, but that's from choice, and they are not all the same. They vary colours, logos, styles. And if someone wants to dye their hair purple or wear a nose ring or a frilly dress, then they can. What's wrong with that?

stehyl15

Get rid of them altogether ive a strange trousers fit and their all either too tight or theyre falling down on me so uncomfortable. The jumpers are terrible way too heavy and who the fúck wears a tie in this day and age. Ban them altogether. Also whats with the schools that won't let their pupils get hair dyed or shaved.

Kathnora

I think that when it comes to 3rd level students gain a bit of sense and they don't try to impress as much with a particular style of dress. 3rd level students seem content to adopt their own uniform of hoody and jeans. At 2nd level it's all about impressing your peers and maybe teachers too! Girls can turn out in very skimpy clothing and it's then I feel that male teachers could have difficulty averting their eyes!!

evolving_doors

katydid wrote: »

I agree. And it's not. The only difference is that teachers have a choice in how they can dress, and students don't.

Aye but there's a big difference between Teachers, Students, College Students, Fetac, Apprenticeship etc...

In a way for teenagers they have their own dress code which they bounce off each other with (goths vs. dolly birds, emo's vs. jocks (maybe I'm out of touch with these terms!)). Maybe all schools should be celebrating this diversity and teenagers finding their place amongst groups etc. but personally I think 'to hell with that', remove that from the equation and let them worry about it outside school-time.
Easier to decide what to wear every morning.
Easier on parents instead of buying 'wardrobes!!'

katydid

Kathnora wrote: »

I think that when it comes to 3rd level students gain a bit of sense and they don't try to impress as much with a particular style of dress. 3rd level students seem content to adopt their own uniform of hoody and jeans. At 2nd level it's all about impressing your peers and maybe teachers too! Girls can turn out in very skimpy clothing and it's then I feel that male teachers could have difficulty averting their eyes!!

There are seventeen and eighteen year olds at secondary school and seventeen and eighteen year olds at college. They have the same level of maturity, but the seventeen and eighteen year olds are forced to go round in knee socks and skirts while their pals in college can wear what they want. THAT is when you see the nonsense of the whole thing.

You can have dress codes in school to avoid skimpy clothing and the like without forcing the kids to wear the kind of clothes they'd never wear in real life.

katydid

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Aye but there's a big difference between Teachers, Students, College Students, Fetac, Apprenticeship etc...

In a way for teenagers they have their own dress code which they bounce off each other with (goths vs. dolly birds, emo's vs. jocks (maybe I'm out of touch with these terms!)). Maybe all schools should be celebrating this diversity and teenagers finding their place amongst groups etc. but personally I think 'to hell with that', remove that from the equation and let them worry about it outside school-time.
Easier to decide what to wear every morning.
Easier on parents instead of buying 'wardrobes!!'

What's the difference between a seventeen year old in college and a seventeen year old in school?

Of course it's EASIER to not have to think for yourself in the morning. Should education be about what is easier or about challenging?

As for buying "wardrobes", that's nonsense. The students don't buy "wardrobes" for school or college, they just wear the clothes that are at home in the wardrobes anyway.

Oafley Jones

Kathnora wrote: »

I think that when it comes to 3rd level students gain a bit of sense and they don't try to impress as much with a particular style of dress. 3rd level students seem content to adopt their own uniform of hoody and jeans. At 2nd level it's all about impressing your peers and maybe teachers too! Girls can turn out in very skimpy clothing and it's then I feel that male teachers could have difficulty averting their eyes!!

You could always spot the first year students in college by how they dressed. Always takes a few months for them to not dress up.

Lau2976

katydid wrote: »

There are seventeen and eighteen year olds at secondary school and seventeen and eighteen year olds at college. They have the same level of maturity, but the seventeen and eighteen year olds are forced to go round in knee socks and skirts while their pals in college can wear what they want. THAT is when you see the nonsense of the whole thing.

You can have dress codes in school to avoid skimpy clothing and the like without forcing the kids to wear the kind of clothes they'd never wear in real life.

Your in real life though. When you start working you'll probably have a uniform. They aren't always comfortable and they aren't always attractive but you have to wear them.

evolving_doors

katydid wrote: »

There are seventeen and eighteen year olds at secondary school and seventeen and eighteen year olds at college. They have the same level of maturity, but the seventeen and eighteen year olds are forced to go round in knee socks and skirts while their pals in college can wear what they want. THAT is when you see the nonsense of the whole thing.

You can have dress codes in school to avoid skimpy clothing and the like without forcing the kids to wear the kind of clothes they'd never wear in real life.

Totally different social dynamic between teenagers in sec school and third level!

katydid

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Totally different social dynamic between teenagers in sec school and third level!

How is it different?

katydid

Lau2976 wrote: »

Your in real life though. When you start working you'll probably have a uniform. They aren't always comfortable and they aren't always attractive but you have to wear them.

I'm a teacher. I haven't worn a uniform for forty years except in the course of a voluntary activity I'm involved in, and that's my choice.

If I chose a career where I had to wear a uniform, that would be my choice.
Schoolkids have no choice.

Oafley Jones

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Totally different social dynamic between teenagers in sec school and third level!

Totally. The expectation that they're supposed to be grown ups radically changes things.

katydid

Oafley Jones wrote: »

You could always spot the first year students in college by how they dressed. Always takes a few months for them to not dress up.

Not where I work.