PFA player of the year 2014/15

SlickRic

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Well I asked a question on Facebook a few weeks ago, who would United fans hate now that Gerrard is leaving and Suarez is obviously gone. Coutinho seems to be the man to take the mantle judging by this thread, I hope he is around to be the focus of their hate for years.

tbf, there's been no hate, he just shouldn't be on the list.

Caovyn Lineah

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Well I asked a question on Facebook a few weeks ago, who would United fans hate now that Gerrard is leaving and Suarez is obviously gone. Coutinho seems to be the man to take the mantle judging by this thread, I hope he is around to be the focus of their hate for years.

I couldn't care less about him or the rest of the Liverpool team for that matter. I, and many others here seem to agree that he's the odd man out and shouldn't be on the list is all. Do you disagree?

Backstreet Moyes

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Well I asked a question on Facebook a few weeks ago, who would United fans hate now that Gerrard is leaving and Suarez is obviously gone. Coutinho seems to be the man to take the mantle judging by this thread, I hope he is around to be the focus of their hate for years.

So Liverpool, United and fans of other clubs have stated the fact that Coutinho wasn't in the top six. You draw from this that United fans hate Coutinho could you explain how you came to that conclusion from this thread.

Will I Amnt

Player undeservedly makes list, you can't mention it or you hate him...
Seems about right.

Caovyn Lineah

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Player undeservedly makes list, you can't mention it or you hate him...
Seems about right.

How did you feel when Giggs won it in 2009?

Liam O

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Player undeservedly makes list, you can't mention it or you hate him...
Seems about right.

He deserves to be on the list because Ryan Giggs though.

Caovyn Lineah

Liam O wrote: »

He deserves to be on the list because Ryan Giggs though.

Separate posts.
Keep up.
Good boy.

PhlegmyMoses

CSF wrote: »

I'd agree, but only slightly. Courtois does the less spectacular things every week much better than De Gea, but there have been enough games where De Gea made some game changing saves to give him the nod over Courtois. But not over Hazard or Kane. Hes still not an all-rounder.

I would disagree with this. De Gea does most of the less spectacular things as well as Courtois. It's jist that De Gea has been given more opportunities to make game changing saves than Courtois.

Will I Amnt

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

How did you feel when Giggs won it in 2009?

Happy.

Caovyn Lineah

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Happy.

Was it deserved based on his performances that season? Try not to deflect

Alfred Borden

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Well I asked a question on Facebook a few weeks ago, who would United fans hate now that Gerrard is leaving and Suarez is obviously gone. Coutinho seems to be the man to take the mantle judging by this thread, I hope he is around to be the focus of their hate for years.

Coutinho has absolutely no right to be in that list. I'm also an Arsenal fan. No non Liverpool fan would put him in their top 10, dont mind their top 6.

Caovyn Lineah

Raf32 wrote: »

Coutinho has absolutely no right to be in that list. I'm also an Arsenal fan. No non Liverpool fan would put him in their top 10, dont mind their top 6.

I doubt John Terry is a Liverpool fan.

Will I Amnt

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Was it deserved based on his performances that season? Try not to deflect

Yeah, should have got the Ballon d'Or that year too.

Alfred Borden

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

I doubt John Terry is a Liverpool fan.

So anyone who doesnt agree with the list obviously hates Liverpool?

bucketybuck

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Well I asked a question on Facebook a few weeks ago, who would United fans hate now that Gerrard is leaving and Suarez is obviously gone. Coutinho seems to be the man to take the mantle judging by this thread, I hope he is around to be the focus of their hate for years.

There is only one poster making this a United/Liverpool thing. Well done on derailing the thread.

DVDM93

It's a pity Coutinho has to be mentioned amongst these players, but so is life. He should be nominated alongside and only mentioned in the same breath as Messi and Ronaldo for awards. Naming him alongside these peasants for this so called award in an insult to him and imho, blasphemy. This spot prize isn't worthy of Coutinho's performances this season. I suppose he can give it to his nephew or some other young relation to play with. It's a pity we have a few more months to wait before he inevitably collects what he really deserves, the Ballon d'or.

Caovyn Lineah

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Yeah, should have got the Ballon d'Or that year too.

A wonderful deflection from the question because it didn't suit your opinion, bravo sir/madam.

Caovyn Lineah

Raf32 wrote: »

So anyone who doesnt agree with the list obviously hates Liverpool?

You stated that no non-Liverpool fan would have Coutinho in their top 10, John Terry voted for him so by your reasoning, he is a Liverpool fan or you are wrong. Which is it ?

CSF

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I would disagree with this. De Gea does most of the less spectacular things as well as Courtois. It's jist that De Gea has been given more opportunities to make game changing saves than Courtois.

De Gea doesn't deal with crosses anywhere near as well with Courtois, nor is his positioning as good, Courtois always seems to be in the right place to snuff out attacks before they begin, you could say that Chelsea's deeper defensive line helps, but that doesn't tell the full story.

In terms of shot-stopping, theres nothing between them (even though I sometimes feel like Courtois makes some of the similar saves look simple rather than spectacular because of his superior height/reach), but a defender in front of De Gea is going to have more to do, particularly from set pieces. He just doesn't claim as many.

But in terms of the PFA award this year, the Chelsea defensive 5 (Matic included) has been so good that it'd be hard to justify Courtois coming in for individual accolades.

PhlegmyMoses

CSF wrote: »

De Gea doesn't deal with crosses anywhere near as well with Courtois, nor is his positioning as good, Courtois always seems to be in the right place to snuff out attacks before they begin, you could say that Chelsea's deeper defensive line helps, but that doesn't tell the full story.

In terms of shot-stopping, theres nothing between them (even though I sometimes feel like Courtois makes some of the similar saves look simple rather than spectacular because of his superior height/reach), but a defender in front of De Gea is going to have more to do, particularly from set pieces. He just doesn't claim as many.

But in terms of the PFA award this year, the Chelsea defensive 5 (Matic included) has been so good that it'd be hard to justify Courtois coming in for individual accolades.

Courtois is definitely better at crosses. Doubt anyone would argue with that. That's about all he is substantially better at though. They are very similar in their abilities but De Gea has probably had the better season due to a variety of circumstances.

CSF

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Courtois is definitely better at crosses. Doubt anyone would argue with that. That's about all he is substantially better at though. They are very similar in their abilities but De Gea has probably had the better season due to a variety of circumstances.

Courtois would be significantly better at coming off his line IMO despite being 6'6 and not blessed with natural pace. Wacky confidence for a keeper of his age. Believes he is going to deal with everything and generally does.

I'd still give De Gea the nod this season for his contributions this season, but that is down to necessity rather than capacity IMO.

Corholio

CSF wrote: »

On the flipside, if you look at the 3 high performing goalscorers really in the discussion, him, Aguero and Kane, which one offers the most outside of goals?

For me, its Costa every time. Has been integral to the way Chelsea play and they look much weaker without him.

Outside of goals? Aguero is a terrific link player, certainly better than Costa in that regard, but that's not Costa's game so that's not a criticism. But out of the 3, Aguero certainly offers the most outside of goals imo.

Hulk Hands

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

You stated that no non-Liverpool fan would have Coutinho in their top 10, John Terry voted for him so by your reasoning, he is a Liverpool fan or you are wrong. Which is it ?

Because players are stupid clearly, or have an ulterior motive. The Ryan Giggs award that you've been deriding, wouldnt non united players have to have voted for him too? You're only embarrassing yourself by keeping this up. 'I asked my United mates on facebook who they would hate'...Christ

PhlegmyMoses

CSF wrote: »

Courtois would be significantly better at coming off his line IMO despite being 6'6 and not blessed with natural pace. Wacky confidence for a keeper of his age. Believes he is going to deal with everything and generally does.

I'd still give De Gea the nod this season for his contributions this season, but that is down to necessity rather than capacity IMO.

The biggest thing De Gea has added to his game this year is his work sweeping up at the back.

On a side note, that YPOTY award looks stronger than ever. Some world class talents there.

Backstreet Moyes

CSF wrote: »

Courtois would be significantly better at coming off his line IMO despite being 6'6 and not blessed with natural pace. Wacky confidence for a keeper of his age. Believes he is going to deal with everything and generally does.

I'd still give De Gea the nod this season for his contributions this season, but that is down to necessity rather than capacity IMO.

De Gea has improved massively with coming off his line this season. Just take a look back at the City game two or three times he saved United by coming out quick.

Courtois i agree is better under crosses although i feel De Gea has improved since his early days.


Shot stopping i think they are two of the best in the world both have amazing reflexes.

I don't think their is much in it either way but both are probably 2nd and 3rd in the world behind Neuer.

Caovyn Lineah

If you put Courtois in the United team, do you think they would be 3rd in the table? Not a chance in my eyes. He is the most deserving of the award.

CSF

Corholio wrote: »

Outside of goals? Aguero is a terrific link player, certainly better than Costa in that regard, but that's not Costa's game so that's not a criticism. But out of the 3, Aguero certainly offers the most outside of goals imo.

Aguero is a better linkup player, no argument there. But ignoring goals (which seems silly but they've all scored pretty much the same amount this year) from the perspective of a teammate, there's no striker in the Premier League Id have ahead of Costa.

The amount of work he gets through and ball he wins up there is remarkable for a player who has all the necessary quality to go with it.

Overall, I'd go with Aguero because he's so prolific that you'd expect him to outscore the rest by 5-10 each year, but that hasn't happened this year for a variety of reasons so for me it's Costa this year.

CSF

Nuts102 wrote: »

De Gea has improved massively with coming off his line this season. Just take a look back at the City game two or three times he saved United by coming out quick.

Courtois i agree is better under crosses although i feel De Gea has improved since his early days.


Shot stopping i think they are two of the best in the world both have amazing reflexes.

I don't think their is much in it either way but both are probably 2nd and 3rd in the world behind Neuer.

De Gea has improved on all the things I mentioned. He was previously a decent keeper who was a world class shotstoppers. He's now a very good keeper who is a world class shotstopper. Courtois IMO is just world class all round.

But agreed, they're 2 and 3 behind Neuer.

PhlegmyMoses

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

If you put Courtois in the United team, do you think they would be 3rd in the table? Not a chance in my eyes. He is the most deserving of the award.

What are you saying here? If Courtois was in United's team, they'd be further down the division? Nah not having that.

Caovyn Lineah

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

What are you saying here? If Courtois was in United's team, they'd be further down the division? Nah not having that.

I think DeGea has single handedly won United a ridiculous amount of points with his saves, some of which Courtois probably wouldn't have made. Btw, they are both amazing keepers but DeGea should win this award.

Alfred Borden

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

You stated that no non-Liverpool fan would have Coutinho in their top 10, John Terry voted for him so by your reasoning, he is a Liverpool fan or you are wrong. Which is it ?

You stated that Man United fans are singling out Coutinho. I said that no fan from another club would put him in their top ten imo. Last I checked John Terry wasnt a fan. Tactical voting no? He would hardly vote for De Gea or Kane since they are realistic contenders to his team mate Hazard no? I like Coutinho but wouldnt have him in my top ten this season. Id love to see an argument for him over say Cesc Fabregas?

Caovyn Lineah

Raf32 wrote: »

You stated that Man United fans are singling out Coutinho. I said that no fan from another club would put him in their top ten imo. Last I checked John Terry wasnt a fan. Tactical voting no? He would hardly vote for De Gea or Kane since they are realistic contenders to his team mate Hazard no? I like Coutinho but wouldnt have him in my top ten this season. Id love to see an argument for him over say Cesc Fabregas?

John Terry is a Chelsea fan, always has been. Terry put him in his top 10, it completely negates your point I'm afraid.

Alfred Borden

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

John Terry is a Chelsea fan, always has been. Terry put him in his top 10, it completely negates your point I'm afraid.

Good strong argument. You got me there.

Caovyn Lineah

Raf32 wrote: »

Good strong argument. You got me there.

Thanks for accepting you were wrong.

Utopia Parkway

Coutinho has been excellent since Christmas. Not just a case of having "one or two good games" as some seem to be trying to say. Luckily for him his run of great form has coincided with when the nominations are due out so his good performances are fresh in the mind of the voters. He wouldn't have got anywhere near it on his first half of the season form. You could say the same about some of the other players as well though. Kane only had 2 goals by early December. Can't stop scoring since Christmas. Sanchez was on fire before Christmas but tailed off a fair bit after Christmas.

Personally thought Charlie Austin deserved a shout. 17 league goals and he's scored against a lot of the top clubs as well.

The golden glove leader should be in there.

ronjo

Where is Coquelin???

redzerdrog

Hazard x2 and any other outcome is a farce

CSF

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Coutinho has been excellent since Christmas. Not just a case of having "one or two good games" as some seem to be trying to say. Luckily for him his run of great form has coincided with when the nominations are due out so his good performances are fresh in the mind of the voters. He wouldn't have got anywhere near it on his first half of the season form. You could say the same about some of the other players as well though. Kane only had 2 goals by early December. Can't stop scoring since Christmas. Sanchez was on fire before Christmas but tailed off a fair bit after Christmas.

Personally thought Charlie Austin deserved a shout. 17 league goals and he's scored against a lot of the top clubs as well.

I agree that sometimes a half a season can win someone something like this, and that's not right, but even Coutinho's half-season just doesn't belong here.

He doesn't score enough goals. Fine, goals aren't everything. He doesn't assist his teammates to score goals often enough, fine, goals aren't everything and sometimes your teammates don't finish even the easiest of chances. But Coutinho wouldn't be at the top of any key passes stat either. He isn't a key contributor to Liverpool's goal tally frequently enough. Generally players in his role contribute more.

But fine, there's more to football than stats and individual goals, I agree, and who would argue that Matic or Veratti's contributions to their respective teams are any lesser than a David Silva who chips in with high goascoring stats? Only a fool IMO.

But Coutinho isn't really either of these things. He's not going to physically impose himself on a game, that's not his game. He's not going to work his balls off for you and cover a massive amount of ground either, that's not him. Nor is he going to dictate the pace of a game with his passing the way a Scholes, Xavi, or now Modric or Veratti would. He doesn't get on the ball or have the insane accuracy of passing for that.

He doesn't appear to be outstanding at anything in particular, like best in the world, Champions League upper echelons quality at anything. He doesn't stand out as an individual in any particular respect. He's a very good, tidy player, who is technically gifted, and capable of a moment of magic at any given moment. But really he should be producing these moments of magic more often and making games his. In the games against good teams this year he has rarely seemed to be there.

I'm just at a loss to figure out what his contribution is, what makes him an outstanding candidate for an individual award. I'm not a Man United fan, not anti-Liverpool, I'm just genuinely bemused as to what Coutinho brings to the table to put him in there with those who have blatantly obviously regularly impacted games by themselves.

redzerdrog

Absolutely no problem with Coutinho being on the list in a year that has been less than vintage premier league as far outstanding performance goes.

Hazard been head and shoulders the best player in the league and everyone else has had a Lot of meh thrown in with good performances

Utopia Parkway

CSF wrote: »

He's not going to work his balls off for you and cover a massive amount of ground either, that's not him.

Actually he does do that to be fair to him.

His goalscoring has been much improved this season and I think his assists would have gone up as well only for the fact that Liverpool have not had a proper striker up front for virtually the entire season. He makes Liverpool tick and these things are not always visible in plain statistics on a page. Probably benefited from his great form coming at the right time but he's obviously very highly regarded by his fellow pros and I feel he's on the list because they enjoy watching him play. Hasn't a hope of winning but it's great recognition for him.

Skylinehead

Coutinho hasn't even been the best number 10 in the league (by a long shot), never mind the best player. And he's the only true no.10 on the list. Baffling.

rob316

Hazard, De Gea and Kane are the only 3 that should be mentioned.

As a Liverpool fan I'm hoping coutinho can continue to impress and be the front runner next year he certainly has the talent to.

CSF

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Actually he does do that to be fair to him.

His goalscoring has been much improved this season and I think his assists would have gone up as well only for the fact that Liverpool have not had a proper striker up front for virtually the entire season. He makes Liverpool tick and these things are not always visible in plain statistics on a page. Probably benefited from his great form coming at the right time but he's obviously very highly regarded by his fellow pros and I feel he's on the list because they enjoy watching him play. Hasn't a hope of winning but it's great recognition for him.

If you look at the stats for these things, he actually doesn't. He doesn't cover massive amounts of ground, and he hasn't scored many goals. He isn't high on key passes either. These are just individual stats that don't mean anything by themselves but I'm looking for someone to fill in the blanks, because I don't see what he's been consistently outstanding at.

redzerdrog

CSF wrote: »

If you look at the stats for these things, he actually doesn't. He doesn't cover massive amounts of ground, and he hasn't scored many goals. He isn't high on key passes either. These are just individual stats that don't mean anything by themselves but I'm looking for someone to fill in the blanks, because I don't see what he's been consistently outstanding at.

You should try watching football matches rather than reading stats

Utopia Parkway

CSF wrote: »

If you look at the stats for these things, he actually doesn't. He doesn't cover massive amounts of ground, and he hasn't scored many goals. He isn't high on key passes either. These are just individual stats that don't mean anything by themselves but I'm looking for someone to fill in the blanks, because I don't see what he's been consistently outstanding at.

Yeah I just prefer to watch the games than count stats and he's Liverpool's most important player and will deservedly win the club's player of the season even though someone like Jordan Henderson actually scores more goals and has more assists. Coutinho is the one who makes everything tick and when he plays well the team generally play well and when he's off his game the same applies. Players of his ilk are hard to classify into simple numbers on a page because they bring something almost intangible to their teams whether it's linking up play or allowing the team to be more fluid. When he's not there you notice he's not there.

MD1990

The obsession with stats is why Coutinho doesn't get the recognition he deserves.
The most entertaining footballer in the PL.

5starpool

As I said earlier, I don't think Coutinho (or any Liverpool player) deserves to be on the lists, but the fact remains that he got voted onto the list by his fellow pros, so obviously got more votes than everyone not on the list.

Alfred Borden

MD1990 wrote: »

The obsession with stats is why Coutinho doesn't get the recognition he deserves.
The most entertaining footballer in the PL.

AdamD

MD1990 wrote: »

The obsession with stats is why Coutinho doesn't get the recognition he deserves.
The most entertaining footballer in the PL.

Pretty sure even Liverpool fans have been on his back for being inconsistent..