PFA player of the year 2014/15

brevity

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Bit of an Invalid point when theres roughly 400 minutes in the difference

In fairness the whole comparison is pointless.

People could argue that Di Maria is playing with better players and should have better stats, others could argue that he hasn't really been playing in a position that plays to his strengths. Or that coutinho has been at liverpool longer and has had more time to gel with the team. Di Maria has has some personal issues that has no doubt affected performance.

Its just Sky being dicks.

monkey9

Premier League footballers think Coutinho is top quality as they've come up against him this season. I wouldn't worry about it.

The Mig

Couthinho for both awards!

Iused2likebusts

MD1990 wrote: »

Again the obsession with stats.
No doubt Coutinho has been better this season than Di Maria.

Messi didn't score in that game recently against City when he was class so it does nothing for his stats. At the end of the season the stats men will probably argue ronaldo had a better season as he scored more goals.

LuckyLloyd

De Gea out of that list.

John Terry would be the actual player of the year though imo.

GavRedKing

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

De Gea out of that list.

John Terry would be the actual player of the year though imo.

If it was a defender who has played as well as Terry and didnt have his anme, then maybe, alas, it wont be.

FWIW, I dont think JT will even get into the team of the year for the same reason he wasnt nominated for the main award.

Morzadec

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Surprised to see Coutinho there for the main award. He had a run of good form and scored a few crackers, but over the whole season he hasn't done nearly as well as the other names up there.

Having him ahead of Aguero (currently joint top scorer in the league) makes no sense to me.

Anyway my choices would be Hazard (main) and Kane (Young player).

Even as a Liverpool fan who really highly rates Coutinho and would probably rate him as our most important player, I would tend to agree with this. Slightly surprised to see him up there for the main award. I do think he could potentially win this award one day though.

Chelsea are going to win the league and Hazard has been their most consistent performer, so it's got to be him. Sanchez probably a close second, Kane up there as well.

Young player has got to be Kane, assuming they don't give both to Hazard. Honourable mention to De Gea who may well be the difference in taking United into the CL and keeping Van Gaal in a job.

Morzadec

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Coutinho is a joy to watch when he's on his game and if he was in or around his best all season there would be no argument. He shouldn't be on the list for the same reason Fabregas isn't on it.

Fabregas has had a great season and probably should be there instead of Coutinho imo. I would even say there's an argument that Fabregas has had just as an impressive first season as Costa looking at the season as a whole

Will I Amnt

Morzadec wrote: »

Fabregas has had a great season and probably should be there instead of Coutinho imo. I would even say there's an argument that Fabregas has had just as an impressive first season as Costa looking at the season as a whole

Phenomenal start to the season but has seriously tailed off, same as Costa really.
Maybe the high standards he set earlier on are clouding my judgement as he's not been terrible, just hasn't stood out like most on the list.

galwaylad14

brevity wrote: »

In fairness the whole comparison is pointless.

People could argue that Di Maria is playing with better players and should have better stats, others could argue that he hasn't really been playing in a position that plays to his strengths. Or that coutinho has been at liverpool longer and has had more time to gel with the team. Di Maria has has some personal issues that has no doubt affected performance.

Its just Sky being dicks.

I love how because it doesn't back up your own pre-conceived notions that it;s just "sky being dicks"

How so? Are they not just comparing two players who play in a fairly similiar position and comparing their stats like for like?

Because the one who is supposedly having a terrible season has far better stats than the one having a supposedly great season then suddenly it's just "sky being dicks".

The stats say Di Maria has been better clearly, some people's own view is that Coutinho has been and that's fair enough too.

One of those views is backed up by hard facts, the other is purely opinion but that's not to say the opinion is neccessarily wrong.

For what it's worth I don't think neither should be within an asses roar of the award.

LuckyLloyd

GavRedKing wrote: »

If it was a defender who has played as well as Terry and didnt have his anme, then maybe, alas, it wont be.

FWIW, I dont think JT will even get into the team of the year for the same reason he wasnt nominated for the main award.

Agree. And that is the type of reason why people shouldn't get too worked up about these awards.

Johner

Terry has been overlooked for these team/player of the year awards since he last got into it in 05/06. He really should make the team of the year this year. Last year was a joke when Cahill got into it over him.

Anyway, this year it will be Hazard and Kane winning the awards.

CSF

Still waiting for someone to clarify what Coutinho is outstanding at, that contributes so much to his team as an individual.

No stats are in his favour but since so many people are convinced that stats are useless, a verbal description would be great.

Doesn't score goals, set up goals, create lots of chances, dominate a game by constantly being on the ball, doesn't dictate the tempo of the game with his range and accuracy of passing.

Instead of replies about how the players voted for him, how people hate Coutinho/Liverpool, or how stats are stupid. Id honestly love a description of what Coutinho brings to the table as an outstanding individual.

galwaylad14

CSF wrote: »

Still waiting for someone to clarify what Coutinho is outstanding at, that contributes so much to his team as an individual.

No stats are in his favour but since so many people are convinced that stats are useless, a verbal description would be great.

Doesn't score goals, set up goals, create lots of chances, dominate a game by constantly being on the ball, doesn't dictate the tempo of the game with his range and accuracy of passing.

Instead of replies about how the players voted for him, how people hate Coutinho/Liverpool, or how stats are stupid. Id honestly love a description of what Coutinho brings to the table as an outstanding individual.

Agree 100% with this post

bucketybuck

Terry's reputation also benefits from the perception that he is playing well, when in fact despite playing in a settled side and in a defensively structured side, Chelsea have only conceded 4 less goals than the ramshackle Manchester United defence.

Courtois behind, Matic in front, Cahill, Ivanovic and Azpilicueta beside him, Terry is playing fine but he also is well protected so lets not get too carried away with bigging him up this season.

GBXI

Why are these awards given so much gravitas/weight/?

I mean, the nominations happen 7 fcuking games before the end of the season! Secondly, players are always going to be biased, for numerous reasons. The young players are not even 'young players'! Also, players don't watch other teams games that often. They play each other twice, maybe do some particular research in the days leading up to a match against each other, but that's it.

The football writers award, fans player of the season, or any independent journalistic award would carry way more weight than this farce.

Harry Palmr

CSF wrote: »

Still waiting for someone to clarify what Coutinho is outstanding at, that contributes so much to his team as an individual.

No stats are in his favour but since so many people are convinced that stats are useless, a verbal description would be great.

Doesn't score goals, set up goals, create lots of chances, dominate a game by constantly being on the ball, doesn't dictate the tempo of the game with his range and accuracy of passing.

Instead of replies about how the players voted for him, how people hate Coutinho/Liverpool, or how stats are stupid. Id honestly love a description of what Coutinho brings to the table as an outstanding individual.

You're demanding far too much - Coutinho is just great to watch (when he is not hair-tearingly frustrating to watch), his biggest weakness is that he can fade out of games in the second half. His biggest problem though is that he is playing in a team that has been bereft of Sturridge and had no functioning centre forwards - last season he was at his most effective when setting up the striker to run on to a cheeky pass alas this season he has had nothing really to work with.

Skylinehead

CSF wrote: »

Still waiting for someone to clarify what Coutinho is outstanding at, that contributes so much to his team as an individual.

No stats are in his favour but since so many people are convinced that stats are useless, a verbal description would be great.

Doesn't score goals, set up goals, create lots of chances, dominate a game by constantly being on the ball, doesn't dictate the tempo of the game with his range and accuracy of passing.

Instead of replies about how the players voted for him, how people hate Coutinho/Liverpool, or how stats are stupid. Id honestly love a description of what Coutinho brings to the table as an outstanding individual.

There's better players in his position in every club above him - Oscar (not as silky, but more effective), Fabregas when played there, Silva, Cazorla, Ozil, Mata. And all have been better than him this season.

CSF

Harry Palmr wrote: »

You're demanding far too much - Coutinho is just great to watch (when he is not hair-tearingly frustrating to watch), his biggest weakness is that he can fade out of games in the second half. His biggest problem though is that he is playing in a team that has been bereft of Sturridge and had no functioning centre forwards - last season he was at his most effective when setting up the striker to run on to a cheeky pass alas this season he has had nothing really to work with.

I'm actually not demanding anything specific. Every other candidate for this award, even a good few of the ones that didn't make the nominees, you can pinpoint, that's what Costa brings to a team, that's what Kane brings, that's what De Gea brings, Aguero, Hazard, Terry, Sanchez, you name it. They have outstanding qualities that positively impact games for their team in terms of results.

What does Coutinho have in particular? Good dribbler, decent passer, decent vision, but not outstanding at any of those, and it doesn't frequently lead to a goal for his team, or something that should have been a goal only for his teammates. Nor is he a player who is instrumental in keeping possession for his team. What is the outstanding Coutinho contribution as an individual?

Liam O

Harry Palmr wrote: »

You're demanding far too much - Coutinho is just great to watch (when he is not hair-tearingly frustrating to watch), his biggest weakness is that he can fade out of games in the second half. His biggest problem though is that he is playing in a team that has been bereft of Sturridge and had no functioning centre forwards - last season he was at his most effective when setting up the striker to run on to a cheeky pass alas this season he has had nothing really to work with.

I'd have Coutinho as the worst attacking Liverpool player by far last season. I just never got it with him. He was 8m for a reason from Inter and hasn't done too much to convince me he's more than a 15m player at a push. He has bursts of good form but so do Sigurdsson, Downing this season, Bolasie, Tadic etc. and they're not called among the best or most entertaining players in the league.

CSF

Skylinehead wrote: »

There's better players in his position in every club above him - Oscar (not as silky, but more effective), Fabregas when played there, Silva, Cazorla, Ozil, Mata. And all have been better than him this season.

Much of a muchness between Oscar and Coutinho for me, Mata behind the 2 of them.

Silva, Cazorla and Ozil are in general and have been superior this year though.

Utopia Parkway

Liam O wrote: »

I'd have Coutinho as the worst attacking Liverpool player by far last season.

Well I can only imagine you haven't watched too much Liverpool then this season. So daft is this statement.

I just never got it with him. He was 8m for a reason from Inter

He was 8M because Inter were skint and needed money and he was a salable asset that was on the fringe of the first team.

noodler

Liam O wrote: »

I'd have Coutinho as the worst attacking Liverpool player by far last season.

What?

He wasn't as good as Suarez or Sturridge but he was very good.

See Liverpool 5-1 Arsenal for an example.

Liam O

noodler wrote: »

What?

He wasn't as good as Suarez or Sturridge but he was very good.

See Liverpool 5-1 Arsenal for an example.

Lets be clear, I'm talking about Sturridge, Sterling and Suarez, Henderson at a push. Even in that game they were all superior and more suited to the system than Coutinho. Coutinho's only standout quality is that once in a while, his flashy pass attempts come off and twice in about 2 years his outrageous shot attempts come off. I realise I'm being harsh on him but that has to be done to counter the hyperbole from the other side.

monkey9

Liam O wrote: »

Lets be clear, I'm talking about Sturridge, Sterling and Suarez, Henderson at a push. Even in that game they were all superior and more suited to the system than Coutinho. Coutinho's only standout quality is that once in a while, his flashy pass attempts come off and twice in about 2 years his outrageous shot attempts come off. I realise I'm being harsh on him but that has to be done to counter the hyperbole from the other side.

You're not being harsh, you're just talking bollix.

Utopia Parkway

Liam O wrote: »

I realise I'm being harsh on him but that has to be done to counter the hyperbole from the other side.

What hyperbole? I don't think anyone has said he's world class. Just that he's a very good player when he's on form and he was on form at the right time as far as the voting goes. If the voting happened at Christmas he wouldn't be there and Fabregas almost definitely would have been but Fabregas' form slumped and Coutinho's went the other way when the ballots were being voted on.

Liam O

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

What hyperbole? I don't think anyone has said he's world class. Just that he's a very good player when he's on form and he was on form at the right time as far as the voting goes. If the voting happened at Christmas he wouldn't be there and Fabregas almost definitely would have been but Fabregas' form slumped and Coutinho's went the other way when the ballots were being voted on.

What has he done the 2nd half of the season that would elevate him over even Fabregas from a more advanced position too?

Skylinehead

CSF wrote: »

Much of a muchness between Oscar and Coutinho for me, Mata behind the 2 of them.

Silva, Cazorla and Ozil are in general and have been superior this year though.

If you're talking about this season, then I agree. But overall, Mata is a much better player and has proved it.

Iused2likebusts

Coutinho isn't going to win it nobody is saying he is going to win it. More or less everyone has said he is fortunate to be in the top 6. Yet he is the most talked about player.

Harry Palmr

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Coutinho isn't going to win it nobody is saying he is going to win it. More or less everyone has said he is fortunate to be in the top 6. Yet he is the most talked about player.

#everyonelikestotalkliverpool, esp Man Utd supporters

LuckyLloyd

CSF wrote: »

Still waiting for someone to clarify what Coutinho is outstanding at, that contributes so much to his team as an individual.

No stats are in his favour but since so many people are convinced that stats are useless, a verbal description would be great.

Doesn't score goals, set up goals, create lots of chances, dominate a game by constantly being on the ball, doesn't dictate the tempo of the game with his range and accuracy of passing.

Instead of replies about how the players voted for him, how people hate Coutinho/Liverpool, or how stats are stupid. Id honestly love a description of what Coutinho brings to the table as an outstanding individual.

Nothing. He's been decent this year, but nowhere near good enough to be in contention for player of the year.

noodler

The stats: Coutinho’s headline stats cannot compare with some of his rivals for this award with only four goals and four assists in this season’s Premier League. But Coutinho’s class has to be seen to be appreciated and his tally of seven through-balls – among the top five players in the country – hints at his ability to unlock the door for his side.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11661/9808423/pfa-player-of-the-year-the-contenders

Read this this morning and completely agreed with it.

He dances past players coming from deep, draw players onto him from all angles and makes space for people out wide and ahead of him.

There is no easily translatable stat but that is the outstanding part of his game for me. He is touch and dribbling it just a joy to watch.

Rayne Wooney

Would say Coutinho was 6th in the voting with very little between him 7th and 8th etc

That's the only way it makes sense, promising player who I like watching occasionally but still well off other players in his position in the league to be honest

SM01

Ah here, he's been better than decent. His problem is inconsistency but when he shines he's a joy. He's still got some growing to do and yes he's behind players of Fabregas and Silva's ilk but he's got a high ceiling and got time on his side. Does he deserve to be in the top 6 of the season? Maybe that's pushing it but he's a 'bubbling under' or 'honourable mention' player. There must be something about him if his fellow pros have voted for him. Call them stupid if you want (personally think that's a lazy notion) but they've faced him so they must see something in him. As for this idea of tactical voting - what proof is there of this?

SantryRed

When was the vote conducted? Any chance it coincided with his hot streak and scoring some savage screamers?

noodler

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Would say Coutinho was 6th in the voting with very little between him 7th and 8th etc

That's the only way it makes sense, promising player who I like watching occasionally but still well off other players in his position in the league to be honest

The only way?

You won't even consider that perhaps the people voting have seen him play more than you?

I'm surprised he is in the main award, but mainly because I didn't think people would recognise the important "statless" part of his game.

AdamD

noodler wrote: »

The only way?

You won't even consider that perhaps the people voting have seen him play more than you?

I'm surprised he is in the main award, but mainly because I didn't think people would recognise the important "statless" part of his game.

What important statless part of his game? Hes an attacking midfielder, he should be getting goals and assists.

Perhaps if Liverpool had a striker this season he'd have more assists.

Sturridge completed 5 or 6 games all season. The rest are spoofers


Fascinated with the obsession with Coutinhio

Harry Palmr

As I said on the previous page! Obvious really. When Sterling and Bale swap in the summer he'll have someone to run on to his balls.

Skylinehead

noodler wrote: »

You won't even consider that perhaps the people voting have seen him play more than you?

What are you basing that on?

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

When Sterling and Bale swap in the summer he'll have someone to run on to his balls.

CSF

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Coutinho isn't going to win it nobody is saying he is going to win it. More or less everyone has said he is fortunate to be in the top 6. Yet he is the most talked about player.

Because he's the one that's way out of place. Stands out like a sore thumb. That's always gonna bring up a discussion. Particularly if it's a United or a Liverpool player because you'll have lads providing counter arguments even though they clearly don't believe he belongs either.

There wouldn't be much of a conversation on the Coutinho topic of it went:

Person 1: Coutinho shouldnt be there
Person 2: Yeah that's a bit mad
Person 3: I think Hazard should win it

And so on and so on. It's only when people try justify it in some way that it becomes a full on debate.

SlickRic

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Would say Coutinho was 6th in the voting with very little between him 7th and 8th etc

That's the only way it makes sense, promising player who I like watching occasionally but still well off other players in his position in the league to be honest

Or, as has been said countless times now, he happened to be going through his purple patch at the right time (i.e. when people were voting).

lads, he shouldn't be there, but it's not hard to work out why he is.

you'd think some of you would get it. Giggs won the thing pretty much the exact same way.

Harry Palmr

Now that was a scandal.

Premier League team of the year: Edwin van der Sar; Glen Johnson, Rio Ferdinand, Nemanja Vidic, Patrice Evra; Ashley Young, Steven Gerrard, Ryan Giggs, Cristiano Ronaldo; Nicolas Anelka, Fernando Torres

.

bucketybuck

The stats: Coutinho’s headline stats cannot compare with some of his rivals for this award with only four goals and four assists in this season’s Premier League. But Coutinho’s class has to be seen to be appreciated and his tally of seven through-balls – among the top five players in the country – hints at his ability to unlock the door for his side.

The likes of Silva don't need to hint at it.

Alfred Borden

https://twitter.com/Squawka/status/588751041748869120

Caovyn Lineah

Raf32 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Squawka/status/588751041748869120

Hahaha, excellent. This is really rubbing people up the wrong way, I love it.

CSF

Raf32 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Squawka/status/588751041748869120

Jesus, that is a horrific stat.

AdamD

People come onto a soccer forum to discuss things, just because they disagree with something doesn't mean it bothers them in the slightest..

CSF

noodler wrote: »

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11661/9808423/pfa-player-of-the-year-the-contenders

Read this this morning and completely agreed with it.

He dances past players coming from deep, draw players onto him from all angles and makes space for people out wide and ahead of him.

There is no easily translatable stat but that is the outstanding part of his game for me. He is touch and dribbling it just a joy to watch.

Being in the top 5 at something that is very much limited to players that play in one particular position is not outstanding.

I understand that stats do not capture everything in football, but there's nothing you could pinpoint and say, well there's that, Coutinho is the best at that. He has a good touch, but certainly not the best, nor is he the best dribbler. He's a good player but not an outstanding individual in any respect.