PFA player of the year 2014/15

Harry Palmr

Maybe that's why he is in the shortlist - decent all rounder.

Morzadec

CSF wrote: »

Still waiting for someone to clarify what Coutinho is outstanding at, that contributes so much to his team as an individual.

No stats are in his favour but since so many people are convinced that stats are useless, a verbal description would be great.

Doesn't score goals, set up goals, create lots of chances, dominate a game by constantly being on the ball, doesn't dictate the tempo of the game with his range and accuracy of passing.

Instead of replies about how the players voted for him, how people hate Coutinho/Liverpool, or how stats are stupid. Id honestly love a description of what Coutinho brings to the table as an outstanding individual.

Pre-cursor to this - I don't think Coutinho should be in the nominees for PFA player of the year (young player, yes).

To answer your question, in a statistical sense first of all, Coutinho would rate highly for both successful through balls (joint 3rd in the league) and successful dribbles (6th in the league). He also has a relatively low dispossession level in comparison to the other best dribblers like Sanchez and Hazard too meaning that when he does try to take a man on he's getting a good success rate from it.

So that's largely what he offers. He's a player that makes things happen. He can beat a man or he can split a defence. Naturally with this comes a risk of losing the ball as no player can pull these moves off with complete consistency.

Added to this has been a recent ability to win games with long shots. This will always stand out. A player who can win a match on his own through a moment of magic will always catch the eye. This has historically been a big weakness in Coutinho's game, but the strikes against Bolton, Southampton, City and Blackburn that essentially won each of those games show that he is improving and can take on the mantle of being one of those players that can provide 'something special'.

Another thing to note is that he is not a luxury player and puts in a shift off the ball. He presses hard and is more than capable of winning a ball back. Comparing him to other flair players, Sanchez would be the king of this now that Suarez has left the league, but Coutinho has a really credible 1.7 tackles a game which puts him alongside Cazorla and better than the likes of Hazard and Silva. So he's a player you can really rely to put a shift in off the ball too.

Forgetting about stats for a moment, what Coutinho offers, as I said, is the ability to make stuff happen. When he gets on the ball he is always forward-thinking. One of his most impressive abilities that probably can't be measured by stats is his ability to turn on the ball, so that you can pass the ball into his feet with his back to goal and he will very quickly be facing the goal and running at defenders. Often it's one touch and he is suddenly facing goal. In other words, he is superb at putting your team on the front foot in an attacking sense and has great technical ability and balance to do this, although he may not be racking up any 'stats points' when he does this.

There's a few players of his ilk that didn't get nominated who have probably had more rounded and statistically better seasons than Coutinho (Cazorla and Silva spring to mind). As I said, I'm not defending his nomination, just trying to describe what he offers.

Coutinho is maybe a bit more daring than the above two, and as I said the reason he is being nominated is because match-winning moments of magic catch the eye and Coutinho has had a few of these recently.

Finally I would note that Coutinho is still only 22 and is improving year on year. If he can continue to shoot the way he has shown the last few months then this makes him a very dangerous player as it is another big string to his bow.

Brazil were crazy not to bring him to the World Cup in the summer as they had basically no one else like him in the team. As I said, he's a player that makes things happen - with that comes the risk of giving the ball away, but if you are down a goal or two and you are looking at the bench, Coutinho most certainly is a player that has the capability to get on the ball and turn things around.

I firmly believe Coutinho will be nominated for this award again in the future, and people will be able to agree that it will be on merit. I do believe he has the potential and ability to be considered definitely one of the top 10 players in the league

CSF

Morzadec wrote: »

Pre-cursor to this - I don't think Coutinho should be in the nominees for PFA player of the year (young player, yes).

To answer your question, in a statistical sense first of all, Coutinho would rate highly for both successful through balls (joint 3rd in the league) and successful dribbles (6th in the league). He also has a relatively low dispossession level in comparison to the other best dribblers like Sanchez and Hazard too meaning that when he does try to take a man on he's getting a good success rate from it.

So that's largely what he offers. He's a player that makes things happen. He can beat a man or he can split a defence. Naturally with this comes a risk of losing the ball as no player can pull these moves off with complete consistency.

Added to this has been a recent ability to win games with long shots. This will always stand out. A player who can win a match on his own through a moment of magic will always catch the eye. This has historically been a big weakness in Coutinho's game, but the strikes against Bolton, Southampton, City and Blackburn that essentially won each of those games show that he is improving and can take on the mantle of being one of those players that can provide 'something special'.

Another thing to note is that he is not a luxury player and puts in a shift off the ball. He presses hard and is more than capable of winning a ball back. Comparing him to other flair players, Sanchez would be the king of this now that Suarez has left the league, but Coutinho has a really credible 1.7 tackles a game which puts him alongside Cazorla and better than the likes of Hazard and Silva. So he's a player you can really rely to put a shift in off the ball too.

Forgetting about stats for a moment, what Coutinho offers, as I said, is the ability to make stuff happen. When he gets on the ball he is always forward-thinking. One of his most impressive abilities that probably can't be measured by stats is his ability to turn on the ball, so that you can pass the ball into his feet with his back to goal and he will very quickly be facing the goal and running at defenders. Often it's one touch and he is suddenly facing goal. In other words, he is superb at putting your team on the front foot in an attacking sense and has great technical ability and balance to do this, although he may not be racking up any 'stats points' when he does this.

There's a few players of his ilk that didn't get nominated who have probably had more rounded and statistically better seasons than Coutinho (Cazorla and Silva spring to mind). As I said, I'm not defending his nomination, just trying to describe what he offers.

Coutinho is maybe a bit more daring than the above two, and as I said the reason he is being nominated is because match-winning moments of magic catch the eye and Coutinho has had a few of these recently.

Finally I would note that Coutinho is still only 22 and is improving year on year. If he can continue to shoot the way he has shown the last few months then this makes him a very dangerous player as it is another big string to his bow.

Brazil were crazy not to bring him to the World Cup in the summer as they had basically no one else like him in the team. As I said, he's a player that makes things happen - with that comes the risk of giving the ball away, but if you are down a goal or two and you are looking at the bench, Coutinho most certainly is a player that has the capability to get on the ball and turn things around.

I firmly believe Coutinho will be nominated for this award again in the future, and people will be able to agree that it will be on merit. I do believe he has the potential and ability to be considered definitely one of the top 10 players in the league

Very good summary, very well written. Certainly wouldn't disagree with any of it. Sums up his game well.

Those are the things he's good at. But at the same time, you'd be hard pressed to put him as better at these things than the likes of Silva, Fabregas and Cazorla who generally have huge impacts on games. There's nothing wrong with joint 3th or 6th at the key attributes for his position, but it's not outstanding either, certainly not POTY candidate, or even Team Of The Year candidate.

But then again you're not arguing that, so I'm not exactly arguing with you either.

LuckyLloyd

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Hahaha, excellent. This is really rubbing people up the wrong way, I love it.

Well yeah, the PFA award is famously retarded. Coutinho's nomination upholds that fine tradition. You can be a Liverpool fan and still see his nomination as 'Player of the Year' as nonsense. His season doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The more stats they go around, the more it's clear that he's had an alright season, not a whole lot more than that.

monkey9

Jamie Carragher has said that John Terry almost certainly instructed his teammates to vote for Coutinho or someone like that to help out Hazard and that the same would be done in the Spurs and Man U dressing rooms.

He himself did the same in 2006 to help out Gerrard, telling his teammates not to vote for the likes of Henry etc.

CSF

monkey9 wrote: »

Jamie Carragher has said that John Terry almost certainly instructed his teammates to vote for Coutinho or someone like that to help out Hazard and that the same would be done in the Spurs and Man U dressing rooms.

He himself did the same in 2006 to help out Gerrard, telling his teammates not to vote for the likes of Henry etc.

Are people gonna mock Carragher for saying it the same way they did me I wonder?

Shanotheslayer

monkey9 wrote: »

Jamie Carragher has said that John Terry almost certainly instructed his teammates to vote for Coutinho or someone like that to help out Hazard and that the same would be done in the Spurs and Man U dressing rooms.

He himself did the same in 2006 to help out Gerrard, telling his teammates not to vote for the likes of Henry etc.

Was just about to post this. Great article.

rottie 11

It has to be hazard in fairness. Watch harry kane get it tho

monkey9

Hazard completely deserves it. Himself and Kane are shoe-ins.

CSF

Can't see a clear gap between Hazard and Kane myself. Don't think it HAS to be either of them. They'd both be worthy winners if it was them.

Talib Fiasco

Lack of Aguero is probably a sign of City's collapse more than anything. As it's common sense to have him there. Hazard should win, but Kane would be worthy too.

CSF

Nuts102 wrote: »

De Gea has improved massively with coming off his line this season. Just take a look back at the City game two or three times he saved United by coming out quick.

Courtois i agree is better under crosses although i feel De Gea has improved since his early days.


Shot stopping i think they are two of the best in the world both have amazing reflexes.

I don't think their is much in it either way but both are probably 2nd and 3rd in the world behind Neuer.

Mostly just bringing this up here because this is where it was discussed previously, but having looked at the Hazard goal from yesterday, I think it was a key example of how De Gea isn't great at coming off his line.

It was his defence that led to him being in the situation he was in, and theres no guarantee he saves the shot anyway, but Courtois in that situation does a much better job of closing the space than De Gea IMO.

MagicIRL

Hazard is on another level to be fair. Fully deserves it. Kane has the English homegrown FA-wonderkid tagline though so...

Oranage2

The anti English bias is laughable. Kane fully deserves it if he wins.

noodler

Hazard is on another planet to Kane but its based on performances this season and Kane now has 30 goals! Absolutely amazing.

4 Liverpool strikers combined have around 10 or something.

CSF

Yeah, I don't think Kane is particularly more or less deserving than Hazard. Either one could win it and I'd have no real complaints. Would probably vote Hazard myself but nothing really in it.

Lucas Hood

Hazard is the winner.

Johner

Kane and Hazard have won.

GavRedKing

Kane get YPOTY

Johner

CSF

Fair play to both the lads. Despite the contradiction in having 2 different winners when both were eligible for both awards I think there was nothing between them and delighted to see them come away with an award each.

MightyMandarin

CSF wrote: »

Fair play to both the lads. Despite the contradiction in having 2 different winners when both were eligible for both awards I think there was nothing between them and delighted to see them come away with an award each.

The eligibility requirements for YPOTY are a bit ridiculous any imo.

Hazard, being 24, shouldn't be eligible for the award considering 24 is not really young in this context.

Talib Fiasco

Cannot argue with that in fairness

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

citytillidie

What a train wreck of a thread

Turtwig

Fully deserved for Hazard. Surely he should have got both? Kane is good, hazard is on another level though.

TheMilkyPirate

Young player of the year should be 21 and under simple as.

Winners are spot on

Andersonisgod

How could it be anyone but Hazard? He's been tremendous this season, a player of such class, all searing speed, whizzing turns and elegant technique. He goes past opposition players at a far greater rate than any other, he's so well versed in performing those intricate build up plays on the edge of the box, he's Chelsea's main man, the one we turn to when we need something special. Hazard is special, he's the most gifted player in the league, he's one of the gifted players on the planet, Hazard could play for any team and be a star, but for Chelsea he is the star.

MaxPower89

Good season from Hazard, he might even reach last years goal tally. Did he take pens last season too?

De Gea?! Wtf.

eagle eye

Andersonisgod wrote: »

How could it be anyone but Hazard? He's been tremendous this season, a player of such class, all searing speed, whizzing turns and elegant technique. He goes past opposition players at a far greater rate than any other, he's so well versed in performing those intricate build up plays on the edge of the box, he's Chelsea's main man, the one we turn to when we need something special. Hazard is special, he's the most gifted player in the league, he's one of the gifted players on the planet, Hazard could play for any team and be a star, but for Chelsea he is the star.

I picked Hazard to win the big one and Kane for the young player award but to me it was a close call for the main award between Hazard, Kane and Alexis Sanchez.

If this was Alexis' second season in the Premier league I'd have fancied him for the award. I think its almost impossible for a player to win the award in his first season in the league.

Alfred Borden

Its funny that the best player in the league wasnt even nominated.

GavRedKing

Raf32 wrote: »

Its funny that the best player in the league wasnt even nominated.

He was

And he won too

MaxPower89

I wonder if Sanchez had gotten 4 or 5 pens like Hazard and was up at 19 goals against Hazard's 13 would he have won it. Agree with above poster that its probably near impossible to win it in your first year.

Chelsea's set up suits Hazard, not much tracking back to do. Sanchez doesnt have that luxury or doesnt take it, one or the other.

noodler

MaxPower89 wrote: »

I wonder if Sanchez had gotten 4 or 5 pens like Hazard and was up at 19 goals against Hazard's 13 would he have won it. Agree with above poster that its probably near impossible to win it in your first year.

Chelsea's set up suits Hazard, not much tracking back to do. Sanchez doesnt have that luxury or doesnt take it, one or the other.

Plus Hazard has been better.

GavRedKing

MaxPower89 wrote: »

I wonder if Sanchez had gotten 4 or 5 pens like Hazard and was up at 19 goals against Hazard's 13 would he have won it. Agree with above poster that its probably near impossible to win it in your first year.

Chelsea's set up suits Hazard, not much tracking back to do. Sanchez doesnt have that luxury or doesnt take it, one or the other.

By that logic Costa should win POTY as none of his goals have come from the penalty spot and it would make him the top scorer in the league in the process.

Sanchez started excellently and hasnt been as effective, consistency is key.

Youve not watched Hazard from his 1st season with the club until now, guy does an immense amount of work to track back and cover compared to when he first signed, he also has one of the leagues best FB behind him so if he doesnt have to or isnt instructed to, he doesnt go back.

Caovyn Lineah

Raf32 wrote: »

Its funny that the best player in the league wasnt even nominated.

Who?

MaxPower89

GavRedKing wrote: »

By that logic Costa should win POTY as none of his goals have come from the penalty spot and it would make him the top scorer in the league in the process.

Sanchez started excellently and hasnt been as effective, consistency is key.

Youve not watched Hazard from his 1st season with the club until now, guy does an immense amount of work to track back and cover compared to when he first signed, he also has one of the leagues best FB behind him so if he doesnt have to or isnt instructed to, he doesnt go back.

I've watched Hazard lots since he has arrived in the EPL, I just wouldn't agree.

"Eden is the kind of player that is not so mentally ready to look back to his left-back and to leave his life for him." Jose Mourinho last May.

He doesnt do a fraction of the tracking that Sanchez does.

Take out the pens and he has what 8 or 9 goals. If that is consistant then its consistantly average. A goal a month.

Strikers and wide players arent really comparable.

Iused2likebusts

Hazard has been class throughout the season and rightly deserves the award.

GavRedKing

MaxPower89 wrote: »

I've watched Hazard lots since he has arrived in the EPL, I just wouldn't agree.

So he hasnt improved tracking back since August 2012? Thats wrong first off.

"Eden is the kind of player that is not so mentally ready to look back to his left-back and to leave his life for him." Jose Mourinho last May.

Last May, when basically Hazard not tracking the Atletico RB meant Atletico k/o'd us out of the UCL, he improved a lot since then.

He doesnt do a fraction of the tracking that Sanchez does.

Nobody would doubt that, Sanchez also has a vastly inferior LB to have to help and cover.

Take out the pens and he has what 8 or 9 goals. If that is consistant then its consistantly average. A goal a month.

10 league goals if you dont count penalties but you do because they have to be scored, its not his fault hes trusted to take them. :pac:

Strikers and wide players arent really comparable.

Depends really, Hazard is a wideman playing wide, Sanchez is a forward playing wide. I'd expect sanchez to out score Hazard nearly every year but its not the golden boot so goals arent the most decisive factor.

Anyway, no point getting annoyed about meaningless award, must be nice for the player but thats about it.

Quazzie

GavRedKing wrote: »

Depends really, Hazard is a wideman playing wide, Sanchez is a forward playing wide. I'd expect sanchez to out score Hazard nearly every year but its not the golden boot so goals arent the most decisive factor.

So Sanchez defends more, and outscores him, but Hazard is better??

GavRedKing

Quazzie wrote: »

So Sanchez defends more, and outscores him, but Hazard is better??

Yes, its pretty simple.

Sanchez is excellent, Hazard is slightly better.

As his fellow pros have voted, hes the best player, in the best team, thats about to win the league.

JPA

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Who?

The league's top scorer I suppose.

Alfred Borden

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

Who?

Aguero. Best in the league by a good bit.

Lukker-

Quazzie wrote: »

So Sanchez defends more, and outscores him, but Hazard is better??

I doubt he defends more. Mourinho teams have no defensive passengers. Sanchez also loses the ball a lot more than Hazard. Didn't he play a lot of games as a striker too?

Iused2likebusts

Raf32 wrote: »

Aguero. Best in the league by a good bit.

aguero is the best player in the league but hazard has played better this season and so deserves the award.

greendom

GavRedKing wrote: »

.


Nobody would doubt that, Sanchez also has a vastly inferior LB to have to help and cover.

Monreal is not vastly inferior to Azpilecuta. Not sure if you're over-estimating one or under-estimating the other but there is not that much between them.

kfallon

greendom wrote: »

Monreal is not vastly inferior to Azpilecuta. Not sure if you're over-estimating one or under-estimating the other but there is not that much between them.

Azpilecuta is far better than Monreal. He might not make too many marauding runs but he is a fine defender!

greendom

kfallon wrote: »

Azpilecuta is far better than Monreal. He might not make too many marauding runs but he is a fine defender!

Monreal has been excellent this season. He's made the left back berth his own. I really don't think there is that much between them

Utopia Parkway

Raf32 wrote: »

Its funny that the best player in the league wasnt even nominated.

Justice for Paul.