Extradite killers to the USA.

Gael23

Why cant we execute them here?

Hachiko

you could but you would end up in the slammer.

can we call joe about this.

Cold War Kid

Wang King wrote: »

What happens if said person is tried, deported and executed....and a year later they find out it was his roommate who did it.

That would be an Alanis situation.

Junkyard Tom

Ideally those who vote for the death penalty should have their names recorded and should be put on an 'Executioner Duty' list that might see them actually have to press the 'death button' on threat of a year in prison if they refuse/can't.

Birneybau

bb1234567 wrote: »

So USA would be exporting death basically

For a change?

the_monkey

El Guapo! wrote: »

what movie is this from ?

Dravokivich

the_monkey wrote: »

what movie is this from ?

Billy Madison. One of Sandlers earlier movies, Before he just kept doing the same character all the time.

topper75

cml387 wrote: »

The US is a shining example of how the death penalty and inhuman prison conditions leads to a nearly crime free society.

Whereas the halting of all murder here coincided with the removal of the punishment from our books?

The only shine I see is off the glazed eyeballs of liberals and dogooder innocents from privileged backgrounds who don't grasp how heinous the crime of murder really is.

stmol32

Hachiko wrote: »

In light of the tragic events in Glasgow, I see no reason why say the governments of Ireland and the UK could reach some agreement to send people convicted of crimes like this to the USA, where they can be put on death row.

Seriously, crimes like this are the lowest of the low and I am sure the cost of sending these vile people abroad can be subsidised by tax payers.

I am all in.

Capital punishment is not the way civilised modern countries should be behaving but I do yhink your idea has some merit.

Why can't our government reach some agreement with Doc Brown and send people back to the 1800s where they can then be transported to Australia.

That way the taxpayers only need to pay the cost of the Plutonium and DeLorean.

ohnonotgmail

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

Ideally those who vote for the death penalty should have their names recorded and should be put on an 'Executioner Duty' list that might see them actually have to press the 'death button' on threat of a year in prison if they refuse/can't.

do you think they would have a problem with that?

stmol32

topper75 wrote: »

The only shine I see is off the glazed eyeballs of liberals and dogooder innocents from privileged backgrounds who don't grasp how heinous the crime of murder really is.

Ermmmm, I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that murder is bad.

stmol32

The Backwards Man wrote: »

It would be the first policy decision in the history of the state dictated by facebook comments.

Closely followed by the naming and shaming of everyone questioned or suspected of anything because we are nosy bastards.

Not to forget life imprisonment for anyone described in a post as 'scum' if that post gets fifty or more likes.

I don't like the film your username comes from....off to America with ye!

V_Moth

Op should read "Der Prozess" by Franz Kafka.

jimgoose

Is there anything at all to be said for Punishment By Catapult??

ohnonotgmail

jimgoose wrote: »

Is there anything at all to be said for Punishment By Catapult??

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

stmol32

jimgoose wrote: »

Is there anything at all to be said for Punishment By Catapult??

What, someone murders someone and all we do is take their catapult away!
I don't think that's much of a deterrent.

endacl

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Reinstate the state executioner...I'll sign up for the vacancy

We never had one. In the grand old Irish tradition of not facing up to harsh reality while Britain was so handily near to take care of any unpleasantness we needed dealing with, Albert Pierrepoint used to come across to take care of our state sanctioned murders.

Interestingly enough, Pierrepoint was never an 'official' executioner in England either. There was no such position. He was a self employed contractor.

endacl

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

do you think they would have a problem with that?

Not if they could do it from behind the safety of an anonymous username and a keyboard.

ohnonotgmail

endacl wrote: »

We never had one. In the grand old Irish tradition of not facing up to harsh reality while Britain was so handily near to take care of any unpleasantness we needed dealing with, Albert Pierrepoint used to come across to take care of our state sanctioned murders.

Interestingly enough, Pierrepoint was never an 'official' executioner in England either. There was no such position. He was a self employed contractor.

its not like we ever did enough of them to get good at it. and if you are going to execute people you need to be sure it is done properly. Pierrepoint knew what he was doing.

endacl

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

its not like we ever did enough of them to get good at it. and if you are going to execute people you need to be sure it is done properly. Pierrepoint knew what he was doing.

Not when he did his first one, he didn't. Not the point I was making, though.

ohnonotgmail

endacl wrote: »

Not if they could do it from behind the safety of an anonymous username and a keyboard.

you presume incorrectly.

ohnonotgmail

endacl wrote: »

Not when he did his first one, he didn't. Not the point I was making, though.

he was taught by his father and uncle. He didnt just rock up and perform a hanging.

Son Of A Vidic

El Guapo! wrote: »

I would like to nominate that for post of the year.:D

topper75

endacl wrote: »

state sanctioned murders

Murder: person who dies is innocent

Execution: person who dies was a murderer

Too subtle for you?

ohnonotgmail

topper75 wrote: »

Murder: person who dies is innocent

Execution: person who dies was a murderer

Too subtle for you?

to be more correct an execution is not murder as murder is the unlawful killing of another. as an execution is state sanctioned it cannot be unlawful.

endacl

topper75 wrote: »

Murder: person who dies is innocent

Execution: person who dies was a murderer

Too subtle for you?

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executed-possibly-innocent

Paramite Pie

I can't believe this thread is still going... Do you really think the American public would even support this let alone their government? Most American states have banned the death penalty and you can't extradite to a specific state as far as I know. If you support the death penalty this strongly then campaign for it here.

Amirani

topper75 wrote: »

Murder: person who dies is innocent

Execution: person who dies was a murderer

Too subtle for you?

There's no subtlety whatsoever in the ridiculousness of the above definition.

Firstly, it's possible to be "not innocent" and be murdered. Secondly, not everyone who's executed is a murderer, for one reason or another.

Streetwalker

Yeah because death row works so well in the US I mean look at those low crime stats

5starpool

Wait until we get the Mars colony going. We can send all our prisoners there and rename the place 'Novo Australis'.

It's a better idea than the one in the OP anyhow.

DEFTLEFTHAND

endacl wrote: »

Not when he did his first one, he didn't. Not the point I was making, though.

It's not that difficult to perform a long drop hanging. You take the person's height and weight and set the drop accordingly. It was a perfected method by the time Pierrepoint came on the scene.

ohnonotgmail

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

It's not that difficult to perform a long drop hanging. You take the person's height and weight and set the drop accordingly. It was a perfected method by the time Pierrepoint came on the scene.

knowing the method is not the same as doing one.

Magico Gonzalez

Of all the things any country ought to seek inspiration from the USA their prison system is fairly close to the bottom of the pile.

Perhaps we would be better looking at countries with lower rates of re-offending?

Who are these people that want Ireland to become another American (blue) state?

ohnonotgmail

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Of all the things any country ought to seek inspiration from the USA their prison system is fairly close to the bottom of the pile.

Perhaps we would be better looking at countries with lower rates of re-offending?

Who are these people that want Ireland to become another American (blue) state?

if we are sending them there to be executed why worry about re-offending rates?

Magico Gonzalez

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if we are sending them there to be executed why worry about re-offending rates?

Fair point, what I should have said was why kill prisoners when it is completely ineffective in terms of a deterrent. Do you believe that in these crimes of passion (that's what the majority are) the murdered will stop, consider his actions and the potential outcome and the potential to escape? No, of course not.

Justice is better viewed as a tool to better society rather than a binary solution to provide some vague notice of justice to a family of the victim whilst at the same time risking doubling that injustice by killing an innocent or mentally ill / someone with a severe learning difficulty etc.

What would be the point? Do you prioritise the possibility (and it's only a possibility) that the victims family might get some sort of satisfaction watching the death of the person that committed the capital offense? I think that's a very transitory, vague and useless notion of justice. Better the objective of the justice system to be the reduction of crime through rehabilitation, treat the urge to commit crime as a multi faceted issue including mental health problems, social problems and yes, the possibility that certain people are downright evil bstards who should be isolated from society. Killing to stop killing is not the way to achieve that.

catallus

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Fair point, what I should have said was why kill prisoners when it is completely ineffective in terms of a deterrent.

When properly implemented, the death penalty results in a recidivism rate of precisely zero.

Magico Gonzalez

catallus wrote: »

When properly implemented, the death penalty results in a recidivism rate of precisely zero.

Deterrent.

Not recidivism.

Why are you repeating the point when I already stated:

"Fair point, what I should have said was why kill prisoners when it is completely ineffective in terms of a deterrent. Do you believe that in these crimes of passion (that's what the majority are) the murdered will stop, consider his actions and the potential outcome and the potential to escape? No, of course not."

A proper applied life sentence (i.e, natural life for the most serious of crimes where re-offending is a possibility) in prison is a pretty effective way to stop re-offending so that argument is moot. No?

oppenheimer1

To be fair to the OP, it's not like we don't have a history in exporting problems we don't want to face on this part of the island.

catallus

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

A proper applied life sentence (i.e, natural life for the most serious of crimes where re-offending is a possibility) in prison is a pretty effective way to stop re-offending so that argument is moot. No?

But lots of crimes occur in prisons too!

ohnonotgmail

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Deterrent.

Not recidivism.

Why are you repeating the point when I already stated:

"Fair point, what I should have said was why kill prisoners when it is completely ineffective in terms of a deterrent. Do you believe that in these crimes of passion (that's what the majority are) the murdered will stop, consider his actions and the potential outcome and the potential to escape? No, of course not."

A proper applied life sentence (i.e, natural life for the most serious of crimes where re-offending is a possibility) in prison is a pretty effective way to stop re-offending so that argument is moot. No?

No. you end with a prisoner that can basically do whatever they like.

stmol32

topper75 wrote: »

Murder: person who dies is innocent

Execution: person who dies was a murderer

Too subtle for you?

By that logic :

Gangster B Kills Gangster A
Gangster C kills Gangster B because of Gangster A
Gangster D kills Gangster C because of Gangster B
Gangster E kills Gangster D because of Gangster C

Therefore no-one is guilty of murder except Gangster B

Junkyard Tom

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

do you think they would have a problem with that?

I'd say an 'Executioner Duty' clause tied to a yes vote would see a crushing defeat for the yes camp. Of course there would be those tough guys like you who'd happily flip the switch, and then go hunt buffalo with a penknife, but then people like that are exceptional.

jimgoose wrote: »

Is there anything at all to be said for Punishment By Catapult??

The Trebuchet version would be my preference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQLYHt-DM0Q

ohnonotgmail

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

I'd say an 'Executioner Duty' clause tied to a yes vote would see a crushing defeat for the yes camp. Of course there would be those tough guys like like you who happily flip the switch and then go hunt buffalo with a penknife but then people like that are exceptional.

very kind of you to say so

Junkyard Tom

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

very kind of you to say so

You're welcome champ. Tell us about the time you knocked out a charging bull with one punch, again.

ohnonotgmail

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

You're welcome champ. Tell us about the time you knocked out a charging bull with one punch, again.

you would only pass out from the awesomeness, just like the last time

topper75

stmol32 wrote: »

By that logic :

Gangster B Kills Gangster A
Gangster C kills Gangster B because of Gangster A
Gangster D kills Gangster C because of Gangster B
Gangster E kills Gangster D because of Gangster C

Therefore no-one is guilty of murder except Gangster B

Would executing Gangster B for murder solve this problem?

Why, I do believe it might. You need to introduce a state-sponsored justice system into your model fast before it gets out of control! Preferably not a liberal state.

Magico Gonzalez

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

No. you end with a prisoner that can basically do whatever they like.

Yes, prisoners serving life are often found out on the golf course, quaffing champagne and oysters whilst cavorting with super models.

Regardless, prison conditions should be more humane. Once you get past (if, indeed you are able to) an archaic need to impose harsh conditions on an individual you can start to look at the societal benefits to an appropriate prison regime.

Magico Gonzalez

catallus wrote: »

But lots of crimes occur in prisons too!

Indeed, caused by the conditions imposed by the prison system.

Do crimes occur in US death row prisons?

Hint, they do.

ohnonotgmail

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Yes, prisoners serving life are often found out on the golf course, quaffing champagne and oysters whilst cavorting with super models.

Regardless, prison conditions should be more humane. Once you get past (if, indeed you are able to) an archaic need to impose harsh conditions on an individual you can start to look at the societal benefits to an appropriate prison regime.

sigh. what a pathetic reply.

Magico Gonzalez

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

sigh. what a pathetic reply.

Well, the first sentence was necessarily sarcastic given the generally inane thrust of your point (if we don't kill prisoners who commit grave crimes they "do whatever they want" in prison), the second sentence is a statement addressing what we as a society want to achieve with our justice system.

It find it odd either sentence seemingly leaves you unable to respond with more than a misplaced sense of the validity of your own populist, paper thin argument.