tingling toes - saddle or bike fit?

magicbastarder

apologies if this is an age old question; when i go out on the bike, usually at about 15km, i start getting numbness in my toes; generally have to come out of the saddle and start shaking my feet to keep it in check, so i assume it's circulation. i've tried two different saddles (one being the style where there's a scoop running down the middle); so is this a saddle issue, or a bike fit/positioning issue?

i fully suspect this is a YMMV thread, but i was wondering who might have had this issue before and how/whether they fixed it?

Brian?

Is you cadence too low, making the soles of
Your feet sore?

magicbastarder

that's not something i'd considered, but i do try to keep in a gear which means i'm not pushing too hard nor spinning madly.

OldBean

What pedals/shoes are you using? Where is the ball of your foot in regards to the centre of the pedal? And are you overtightening your shoes?

I had this problem when I first started out with cleats, found I had the cleats set up a few MM from where they should have been and it would usually kick in about 20km into a ride.

magicbastarder

they're old specialised SPD shoes; i don't think overtightening is an issue (i've loosened the straps because of this issue), but would be interested to hear advice about positioning of the cleats. since you had the same issue, as a baseline to work from, did you have to shift your foot position backwards or forwards?

martyc5674

It's unlikely it's the saddle. That would give you numbness elsewhere...

More likely too tight a shoe... Pushing too big a gear, cleat position... Cold feet, there are lots of air vents in lots of cycling shoes that ate really too much for a large proportion of our weather.
Also too loose a shoe can cause your foot to push too far foward onto the shoe cutting off circulation.. It's a fine balance.

Marty.

magicbastarder

cheers, will keep an eye on cadence and play around with cleat position.

MileyReilly

Could've written this myself. I know exactly what you're talking about. About 15 or 20 km in it starts. Then it's up out of the saddle and shake the leg and feel the numbness going out of toes then switch legs then repeat every few km.

Feels like circulation definitely. Thought I was the only one!!

doozerie

I've had tingling toes which over the course of a few hours on the bike turned into serious pain at the base of my toes. It took me a while to think of my insoles. I have quite high arches and the standard insole in any cycling shoes I've had had never been high enough to fully support my feet, I never really considered it a problem until the pains in my feet.

I replaced the stock insoles with Specialized ones, the ones with the highest arch supports, and it immediately made a difference. I still occasionally have problems but it's quite rare now. Last year I tried a pair of mouldable insoles from Sole, they're not much more expensive than the Specialized ones and I prefer them.

It may not solve your problem of course, but inadequate arch support (if indeed your insoles are inadequate) could cause various other problems so it's a good thing to look at regardless I think.

Tigerandahalf

I have found wearing overshoes makes a big difference. My shoes have mesh type lining on top of toe area and even with a couple of pairs of socks the feet can go numb. Even though yesterday was around 12/13 degrees there was a chilly breeze blowing.

flywheel

have experienced foot issues when cycling too...

easiest cause to rule out is due to the cold... so as some of the posters have already said the right socks / overshoes will help to keep the feet warm enough...

if you are still getting tingling / numbness after that then it could be something to do with the blood supply to the foot or a nerve issue...

have a look at any potential compression of the foot... this can both cause the blood supply to the foot to be restricted or even compression of the nerves are the shoes wide enough, is the fit too tight... some shoe manufacturers have a wider fitting shoe... some shoe closing systems (dial/tension vs straps) can work better or be easier to adjust around the foot leaving adequate room, think 'snug' and fitting rather than too 'tight' and restrictive

cleat position can also be a factor... a bike fit and appropriate cleat position is worth spending time on getting right... either with a bike fitter or taking some time to read up on it (the liked of Phil Burt's 'Bike Fit' book is a good read)

also found special in-soles helped me e.g. G-Form make a pair which have a gel underside around the ball of the foot...
http://g-form.com/en/bike-shoe-insole.html

have a look at your feet and rule in/out the likes of Morton's syndrome, which can flare nerve issues in the foot

if none of those help it may also be worth your while seeking some professional advice from a podiatrist or someone who qualified about biomechanics or who can screen your mobility/flexibility

hope that helps

OldBean

magicbastarder wrote: »

they're old specialised SPD shoes; i don't think overtightening is an issue (i've loosened the straps because of this issue), but would be interested to hear advice about positioning of the cleats. since you had the same issue, as a baseline to work from, did you have to shift your foot position backwards or forwards?

Forward...



I'd imagined the balls of my feet to be slightly behind the line above. I use SPD's too, and I'd imagine it's a pretty fine line between right and wrong as the cleat itself has such a small connection to the pedal, if that makes sense.

I don't think it's the cold, for the record. You'd just feel sharp cold, then numb, rather than a tingle/numbness.

The Ging and I

All suggestions are with considering but are you cycling with your toes clenched ? Try to relax your toes when cycling.
This is a more a problem for big distance riders.

Lumen

OldBean wrote: »

Forward

Further back is more biomechanically sympathetic.

Obviously there are effective saddle height issues from changing cleat position.

Eamonnator

I think, that part of your problem may be that the soles of your shoes are not stiff enough.

magicbastarder

OldBean wrote: »

I don't think it's the cold, for the record. You'd just feel sharp cold, then numb, rather than a tingle/numbness.

yep, this is definitely not a cold issue, i'd have had it on the warmest days of last year too.
also, i've just double checked the shoes, and the cleats seem to be as far forward as they can go. perhaps they're too far forward.

magicbastarder

Eamonnator wrote: »

I think, that part of your problem may be that the soles of your shoes are not stiff enough.

they're an old pair of specialized, SPD, originally bought with a mountain bike, so possibly not the stiffest.

Eamonnator

magicbastarder wrote: »

they're an old pair of specialized, SPD, originally bought with a mountain bike, so possibly not the stiffest.

When you press on the pedals, the soles of your shoes "give" a little, and your feet get squeezed, causing problems.
SPD shoes, typically are not as stiff soled as road shoes. And if yours are old, some of the stiffness may be gone from them, compounding the problem.

kerry4sam

magicbastarder wrote: »

apologies if this is an age old question; when i go out on the bike, usually at about 15km, i start getting numbness in my toes; generally have to come out of the saddle and start shaking my feet to keep it in check, so i assume it's circulation. i've tried two different saddles (one being the style where there's a scoop running down the middle); so is this a saddle issue, or a bike fit/positioning issue?

i fully suspect this is a YMMV thread, but i was wondering who might have had this issue before and how/whether they fixed it?

Came back from a cycle recently on one of the warmest days and had this very issue. Now after my bike accident Nov2012 I did experience tingling; numbness & pins n needles all the way down the legs sporadically for a good while. This was different though - isolated to the toes only.

I'm booked in for a bike-fit on Monday & my new shoes & new cleats arrived yesterday (only collected today from AnPost depot) so hopefully with all these combined I'll see an improvement after my cycles. Hopefully It is just a bike-fit; cleat-positional issue.

Hope it resolves for you also
kerry4sam

martyc5674

magicbastarder wrote: »

also, i've just double checked the shoes, and the cleats seem to be as far forward as they can go. perhaps they're too far forward.

This was my problem... i had my cleats too far forward.
Now dont make the same mistake i mad...i moved them back...fixed my tingly toes but buggered a knee.
Having the cleats forward allows a higher saddle position.
So by moving them back it effectively increases the distance between bum and pedal...
Move them back but think about lowering the saddle aswell.
Honestly though id recommend a bikefit.
Marty

magicbastarder

well, i've just been out for an hour after moving the clips back about 5mm (as mentioned, they were as far forward as the shoes allowed); dropped the saddle about 7mm, and angled the seat every so slightly forward; didn't fix the problem completely, but it did lessen it by nearly half, i'd say. i doubt it's the saddle height or angle, i've played with these to no benefit before; and it doesn't feel like my feet are too far forward on the pedal yet, so maybe another few mm may be worth trying.

OldBean

It might be best try one thing at a time, otherwise you'll not be sure which movement has helped.

gaffmaster

Here's a handy video about setting up cleat position:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2BXOkM-wHs

kerry4sam

Solution for me anyways Have to recommend John in BikePerformance here.
He had so many adjustments to make and was just such a gent! I recommended him before after a friend went there, but after my own visit, have no issues in recommending again.
Outstanding.

My cleats needed adjusting; saddle heightened and brought forward; handle-bars adjusted...
Came back from two cycles yesterday after the bike-fit and my legs just felt so light; no pain; no strain; no issues at all. Just need to up my own fitness now as my bike cannot be blamed from now onwards that's for sure.

Would you consider a professional bike-fit and have everything checked by them. I was shown a before video & after video and it was jaw-dropping the difference. All angles for me, from the leg positioning; to distance to handle-bars; etc all just sits so perfect and pain-free. Sorry I didn't go sooner tbh.

Happy Cycling Again,
kerry4sam

xxyyzz

Just to add to this, the surface area on an spd pedal is quite small so the pressure is concentrated in one area of the foot rather than spread out over a larger area like on a road pedal. This often causes hotspots and numbness in the foot.

magicbastarder

kerry4sam wrote: »

Would you consider a professional bike-fit and have everything checked by them.

yep, am going to start investigating this; i went out last night, and realised i'd dropped the saddle too low when i moved the cleats, and ended up with a sore knee about an hour after i got home. so rather than trying to find the right setup through hit and miss, i should probably get some adult supervision...