Bad punctuation on shop signs, etc.

FWVT

I really get annoyed when I see bad grammar and punctuation in places where it really shouldn't happen, e.g. shop signs. One very common example is the omission of the possessive apostrophe, or indeed the addition of an S of pluralisation at all, such as "Womens" to identify the women's section in a common department store beginning with D today (see attached). Shouldn't it read "Women's" (as in the women's section) or just simply "Women"?

I spotted several other examples on my way back to the car ("Charlies Barbers", "O'Briens" (sandwich bar) along with several pubs called a surname with an S attached (O'Reillys", etc.).

There is a keycutter business in my village and it has on its main sign "Key's, Lock's"...when talking about what they do.

So, what other example's do you's have of bad grammar in place's were a basic levell of english grammar and punctuation should be a given? (sarcastic errors deliberate).

P. Breathnach

One of my favourites was on a market stall: "Tenni's Ball's".

There is a little wriggle room on shop and pub signs involving a surname. Several members of the O'Reilly family might be involved in the business.

Wise Old Elf

Maybe that's the section where you can buy womens!

My old favourite was a sign in the bathrooms in an old workplace: "Please leave the toilet's as you would like to find them".

Tempted so many times to write "Leave the toilet's what as I'd like to find it?" underneath.

MathsManiac

It doesn't get much better than this:
http://www.apostropheabuse.com/2011/10/please-use-the-thongs.html

I actually saw the exact same error in a Centra store once, but didn't have the presence of mind to take a picture.

Edit: to be fair, Centra didn't have the apostrophe error, only the spelling one!

FWVT

P. Breathnach wrote: »

One of my favourites was on a market stall: "Tenni's Ball's".

There is a little wriggle room on shop and pub signs involving a surname. Several members of the O'Reilly family might be involved in the business.

Yes, but something like "Dunnes Stores". What is the "Dunnes" referring to? Do the stores belong to more than one member of the Dunne family or just one member? The s without an apostrophe not mean anything, so it isn't it better to then be called "Dunne Stores"? McDonald's use the apostrophe, because it is referring to Richard and Maurice McDonald's "Drive-In Restaurant Services" (so of the "McDonald" family. In the same way Dunnes should be called Dunne's Stores as it belong(ed) to the Dunne family.

The more I think of this the more confused I'm getting! :rolleyes:

MathsManiac

FWVT wrote: »

Yes, but something like "Dunnes Stores". What is the "Dunnes" referring to? Do the stores belong to more than one member of the Dunne family or just one member? The s without an apostrophe not mean anything, so it isn't it better to then be called "Dunne Stores"? McDonald's use the apostrophe, because it is referring to Richard and Maurice McDonald's "Drive-In Restaurant Services" (so of the "McDonald" family. In the same way Dunnes should be called Dunne's Stores as it belong(ed) to the Dunne family.

The more I think of this the more confused I'm getting! :rolleyes:

Unlike your women's clothing (so to speak), this is one that's so embedded in accepted practice that it's difficult to argue that it's incorrect any more. Here's what Hart's Rules has to say about it:

In the names of large businesses, endings that were originally possessive are now often acceptably written with no apostrophe, as if they were plurals: Harrods, Currys. This is the case even when the name of the company or institution is a compound, for example Barclays Bank, Citizens Advice Bureau. Other institutions retain the apostrophe, however, for example Levi’s and Macy’s, and editors should not alter a consistently applied style without checking with the author.

nompere

For years my favourite sign was in Phibsborough, where a pet shop had a corner site.

On the long frontage was the sign "BOBBY,S PETS", while on the shorter side it was called "BOB,S PETS".

It's no longer there, which is a shame.

Not all that far away, the coffee shop in Beaumont Hospital used to sell "Gateaux's"!

FWVT

Were Bobby,s and Bob,s with a comma or is that just a typo on your part?

FWVT

Again...

MathsManiac

It's desperate when they're in white writing - you'll need half a bottle of tippex to fix that one, instead of one quick swipe with an indelible marker!

Stroke Politics

For a long time here in Navan, we had the Sinn Féin Áras Bobby Sand's clinic/office. They've corrected it since, but you can still smell the semtex....

Jellybaby1

I would have thought it should be Womens'.

I would have put the apostrophe after the word with no 's' at the end, but today using good grammar and spelling is not a priority with sign writers. I was taught that the apostrophe at the end of the word represents the extra 's you might be tempted to add in. So instead of writing Womens's, you would just write Womens'. See street sign below.

Anyone else agree with me.

P. Breathnach

FWVT wrote: »

Were Bobby,s and Bob,s with a comma or is that just a typo on your part?

The apostrophe was dropped to the comma place. I remember that sign with affection.

FWVT

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I would have thought it should be Womens'.

I would have put the apostrophe after the word with no 's' at the end, but today using good grammar and spelling is not a priority with sign writers. I was taught that the apostrophe at the end of the word represents the extra 's you might be tempted to add in. So instead of writing Womens's, you would just write Womens'. See street sign below.

Anyone else agree with me.

Adding just an apostrophe is only done on words that end with an s. Women is already a plural therefore no s is required. The genitive of women is women's.

endacl

It's a panino! It's only panini if your ordering two or more!

:mad:

I've given up on apostrophes. Have to have something to give out about. My favourite is a certain well known South Dublin pub with an off licence attached. Emblazoned across the wall at the back of the pub was "Wine's from all over the World". Double whammy. The apostrophe makes the statement both grammatically and factually inaccurate.

MathsManiac

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I would have thought it should be Womens'.

I would have put the apostrophe after the word with no 's' at the end, but today using good grammar and spelling is not a priority with sign writers. I was taught that the apostrophe at the end of the word represents the extra 's you might be tempted to add in. So instead of writing Womens's, you would just write Womens'.
...

The correct punctuation is "Women's clothing". Check out any number of standard guides to grammar and punctuation to confirm this. A possessive apostrophe without an added "s" only applies when you are giving the possessive form of a plural word where the plural has been formed by adding an "s" already. For example:
"The boy's books" means the books belonging to one boy;
"The boys' books" means the books belonging to several boys.
But in cases where the plural has not been formed by adding an "s", the possessive is formed by adding apostrophe and "s":
"The women's books", "the men's books", "the children's books".

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

See street sign below.

Street signs are a whole different ball game. In English, streets named in honour of people are not treated as possessive forms. "O'Connell Street" is not "O'Connell's Street", because (more or less) it does not belong to O'Connell. I would say that the apostrophe in that street sign is incorrect. I assume that it is named for a person with the surname Williams. The normal way to write it would be "Williams Street" (no apostrophe). Now if he or she did actually own the entire street, maybe you could refer to it as "Williams' Street", but it would be a bit crass for him or her to actually name it that way - a bit like me putting a sign on my house to say "Mathsmaniac's house" except on an even more pompous scale!

The Irish forms of street names are different, by the way. (It should not be surprising that grammatical conventions differ from one language to another.) The tuiseal ginideach is used in Irish in street names even though the sense is not a possessive one.

Sunhill

Actually, I think that the one in the jpeg above is correct. According to the Irish inscription it is a lane called after somebody named Williams (Mac Liam), not Wlliam something. In that case, where the word ends in 's', or is in plural form ending in 's' (eg. boys' school) instead of putting a apostrophe and another 's' one just puts the apostrophe.

The other examples above where there is a comma instead of an apostrophe is called a 'dropped apostrophe' (and is an error, of course).

Jellybaby1

endacl wrote: »

....Emblazoned across the wall at the back of the pub was "Wine's from all over the World". Double whammy. The apostrophe makes the statement both grammatically and factually inaccurate.:)

I suppose we should be grateful it wasn't "Whine's from all over the World".

P. Breathnach

endacl wrote: »

It's a panino! It's only panini if your ordering two or more!...

Agreed. But I have seen "Panini's" on a restaurant sign.

[And "Chicken coq au vin", but that's not a punctuation matter.]

pickarooney

endacl wrote: »

It's a panino! It's only panini if your ordering two or more!

:mad:

I've given up on apostrophes. Have to have something to give out about. My favourite is a certain well known South Dublin pub with an off licence attached. Emblazoned across the wall at the back of the pub was "Wine's from all over the World". Double whammy. The apostrophe makes the statement both grammatically and factually inaccurate.

It's both grammatically and factually accurate with the apostrophe, however unintentional.

endacl

pickarooney wrote: »

It's both grammatically and factually accurate with the apostrophe, however unintentional.

No it isn't! Antarctica produces no wine. Neither does Vanuatu. To name just two. So, in the context, the grammar is incorrect.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

pickarooney

endacl wrote: »

No it isn't! Antarctica produces no wine. Neither does Vanuatu. To name just two. So, in the context, the grammar is incorrect.

If you're going to make that ludicrous argument then the punctuation doesn't make a blind bit of difference as presumably you would pull them up on not having a Ghanaian Riesling on the shelf marked "wines from all over the world".

endacl

endacl wrote: »

It's a panino! It's only panini if your ordering two or more!

:mad:

gasp

MathsManiac

pickarooney wrote: »

If you're going to make that ludicrous argument then the punctuation doesn't make a blind bit of difference as presumably you would pull them up on not having a Ghanaian Riesling on the shelf marked "wines from all over the world".

Indeed, and likewise we wouldn't be allowed to say that mammals live all over the world, because there are none living in the hundred square metre area around the South pole, the summit of Mount Everest, or the bottom of the Mariana trench, to name but three.

endacl

bluewolf wrote: »

gasp

:eek:

!!!

FWVT

I need to stop shopping in this shop...

MathsManiac

Or you could arm yourself with some of these next time you go in:
http://www.zazzle.co.uk/improper_punctuation_fixer_stickers-217752612403246092

They appear to be customisable, so white on transparent might do the trick...

FWVT

It continues...

FWVT

Minecraft make mistake too...

Jellybaby1

Couldn't resist taking this one....