Amstel Gold 2015

pelevin

Race on now on Eurosport. Very basic thread sorry. They've a beautiful day for racing weather-wise. Big favourites probably Gilbert & Valverde & maybe Matthews. Hopefully Dan Martin can put in a big ride.

bazermc

Is this not a race more suited to Sagan? Assuming he is there

pelevin

No, don't think Sagan is riding at all - though maybe it theoretically could suit him. Doesn't seem a lot of crossover in terms of riders from the cobbled classics to this though Lars Boom, & Greg Van Avermaet also, I think a couple of notable exceptions.

bazermc

This is great. Only watching it 10 minutes and loads of incidents, car on the road nearly caused an accident and fight nearly broke out between two cyclists

ThisRegard

bazermc wrote: »

This is great. Only watching it 10 minutes and loads of incidents, car on the road nearly caused an accident and fight nearly broke out between two cyclists

Car driving towards the race, with the wipers on!

pelevin

bazermc wrote: »

This is great. Only watching it 10 minutes and loads of incidents, car on the road nearly caused an accident and fight nearly broke out between two cyclists

And we got to hear one of them calling the other an assho le live & very much full voice. Sport doesn't get better than that.

bazermc

Dan Martin placed well towards the front of the peleton ( I think ).

neris

pelevin wrote: »

And we got to hear one of them calling the other an assho le live & very much full voice. Sport doesn't get better than that.

ah thats tame compared to the handbags at the vuelta last year.

what was the story with the car on the course going in the opposite direction? have to assume it was a resident who just happened to forget there was a big bike race passing snd thought it was a nice day to go look at a new pair of clogs

neris

ouch. they just missed that barrier stopping their skid along the floor

pelevin

Strange to see that dangerous break with Tony Martin & Nibali working so badly together.

pelevin

Love Nibali's attitude to racing. Pity he hasn't lucked out in terms of others willing & able to really work with him.

godtabh

Good sprint finish

bazermc

Great finish. Dan was in the top 10. ( I think) coverage gone.

neris

good finish like to have orica take it but good viewing.

pelevin

Yeah, excellent finish. Thought Tony Martin's ride was annoyingly negative but they got the result so that'll of course justify all.

neris

niballi was looking good. is this the 1st time hes shown form this year?

pelevin

Haven't seen too much racing but first prominent ride by him I've seen.

funnights74

Incident packed race, car on the course, nearly a punch up and a few spills. Great bunch finish at the end, Dan Martin showed well, LBL is next week and he has a decent history in that.

Raam

pelevin wrote: »

Yeah, excellent finish. Thought Tony Martin's ride was annoyingly negative but they got the result so that'll of course justify all.

No way Martin was going to work with Nibali with his man in the peloton being a protected rider. Martin would have no chance on the final climb with Nibali.

pelevin

Raam wrote: »

No way Martin was going to work with Nibali with his man in the peloton being a protected rider. Martin would have no chance on the final climb with Nibali.

I suppose so yeah. Largely frustrated cos that kind of attacking racing so much more interesting than all the main men arrive together in the peloton & the race decided in the last 5 minutes.

Maybe if the riders weren't all hooked up to their team cars via race radio, there's some chance Tony Martin would have said, "Feck it, I'm in the break, I'll take me chances."

Come to think of it, what was more ridiculous was Greg van Avermaet not working with Fuglsang, presumably for the reason of Gilbert behind, but surely BMC & van A would have everything to gain in riding on there.

D9Male

I thought the race was very poor. Far too often we see these hilly classics being controlled by the bigger teams. Liege Bastogne Liege last year was a really, really bad race I think. Something like 50 riders left in front with 10km to go. Including some sprinters.

What is the solution? I don't know. Tactics over race radios could be banned. More selective courses? Smaller teams?

Quite often the cobbled classics produce a spectacle over 2-3 hours of a race. But these hilly classics are really only worth watching for the concluding 30 minutes maximum.

Raam

pelevin wrote: »

Come to think of it, what was more ridiculous was Greg van Avermaet not working with Fuglsang, presumably for the reason of Gilbert behind, but surely BMC & van A would have everything to gain in riding on there.

Nothing ridiculous about that at all.

dastardly00

D9Male wrote: »

I thought the race was very poor. Far too often we see these hilly classics being controlled by the bigger teams. Liege Bastogne Liege last year was a really, really bad race I think. Something like 50 riders left in front with 10km to go. Including some sprinters.

What is the solution? I don't know. Tactics over race radios could be banned. More selective courses? Smaller teams?

Quite often the cobbled classics produce a spectacle over 2-3 hours of a race. But these hilly classics are really only worth watching for the concluding 30 minutes maximum.

Fleche Wallone and LBL are probably going to be the same.

D9Male

I guess that is the way the world is going. Test cricket -> 1 day -> Twenty 20.

Raam

D9Male wrote: »

I thought the race was very poor. Far too often we see these hilly classics being controlled by the bigger teams. Liege Bastogne Liege last year was a really, really bad race I think. Something like 50 riders left in front with 10km to go. Including some sprinters.

What is the solution? I don't know. Tactics over race radios could be banned. More selective courses? Smaller teams?

Quite often the cobbled classics produce a spectacle over 2-3 hours of a race. But these hilly classics are really only worth watching for the concluding 30 minutes maximum.

You could say the same for MSR.

pelevin

Raam wrote: »

Nothing ridiculous about that at all.

Words are valuable all right. Twould be terrible if you wasted a few.

D9Male

I could. But there have been a few more interesting Milan San Remo editions in the last 10 years than AGR or Fleche Wallone.

But yeah, the hilly classics (including MSR) ain't what they used to be.

pelevin

D9Male wrote: »

I thought the race was very poor. Far too often we see these hilly classics being controlled by the bigger teams. Liege Bastogne Liege last year was a really, really bad race I think. Something like 50 riders left in front with 10km to go. Including some sprinters.

What is the solution? I don't know. Tactics over race radios could be banned. More selective courses? Smaller teams?

Quite often the cobbled classics produce a spectacle over 2-3 hours of a race. But these hilly classics are really only worth watching for the concluding 30 minutes maximum.

I'd agree very much, & race radio - the absence of - seems the obvious means of opening things up. Liege last year was a total bore if memory serves until the last few km's. Not what these kind of races are supposed to be all about surely.

Raam

pelevin wrote: »

Words are valuable all right. Twould be terrible if you wasted a few.

What do you mean?

pelevin

Raam wrote: »

What do you mean?

You gave an answer whose entire intellectual content, in a few more words, was "No". I just briefly alluded to the fact.

Raam

pelevin wrote: »

You gave an answer whose entire intellectual content, in a few more words, was "No". I just briefly alluded to the fact.

You already provided the reason why it was not ridiculous: Gilbert, the protected rider for BMC was back in the main bunch. The reason GVA wouldn't work is the same as why Martin wouldn't work.

pelevin

Raam wrote: »

You already provided the reason why it was not ridiculous: Gilbert, the protected rider for BMC was back in the main bunch. The reason GVA wouldn't work is the same as why Martin wouldn't work.

But the situation with Fuglsang & Van A was very different surely. It was the very tail-end of the race, Van A would presumably be considered at least as strong as Fuglsang - & probably a fair bit stronger - if other teams chased them down hard on the climb, Gilbert could use that harder pace anyway to launch himself the same as if it was a BMC rider initially going for it. Van A up the road I'd have thought would be expanding their chances.

On the broader issue, much more interesting for a race to happen in the moment than someone in a car telling everyone to stick to a rigid pre-ordained plan, & so Van A not allowed ride cos that's not in the script.

Raam

pelevin wrote: »

But the situation with Fuglsang & Van A was very different surely. It was the very tail-end of the race, Van A would presumably be considered at least as strong as Fuglsang - & probably a fair bit stronger - if other teams chased them down hard on the climb, Gilbert could use that harder pace anyway to launch himself the same as if it was a BMC rider initially going for it. Van A up the road I'd have thought would be expanding their chances.

On the broader issue, much more interesting for a race to happen in the moment than someone in a car telling everyone to stick to a rigid pre-ordained plan, & so Van A not allowed ride cos that's not in the script.

BMC play it both ways. We won't work in the break, Fuglsang can if he wants and we won't chase in the peloton, other teams can do that if they want. Win-win. Or lose as the case turned out to be. They played it almost perfect, just Gilbert didn't have it in the end.

pelevin

Raam wrote: »

BMC play it both ways. We won't work in the break, Fuglsang can if he wants and we won't chase in the peloton, other teams can do that if they want. Win-win. Or lose as the case turned out to be. They played it almost perfect, just Gilbert didn't have it in the end.

I'd see it more as not a Win-win as Van A not working with Fuglsang meant that nothing was going to happen there whereas if he had worked with him something might have happened. It was simply a negating tactic rather than a positive one & all hopes were put on the Gilbert move.

Raam

If GVA did what you suggested and BMC didn't win then they would look like complete fools and rightly so given that their best chance of winning was sitting just behind. Is Fuglsang a better climber than GVA? Mmm, maybe on the real long stuff. I think Fuglsang would have beaten him up the Cauberg anyway but that's just my guess.

pelevin

Well GVA finished 5th suggesting he'd not too much to be worried from the thought of Fuglsang distancing him.

Raam

pelevin wrote: »

Well GVA finished 5th suggesting he'd not too much to be worried about from Fuglsang.

Fuglsang finished 4th a few years ago. If he had nothing to worry about then why did he mark him?

lennymc

Is anyone else reading "Fuglsang" in Sean Kelly's voice?

pelevin

Raam wrote: »

Fuglsang finished 4th a few years ago. If he had nothing to worry about then why did he mark him?

Fuglsang is obviously a good rider but whatever a team tries there's no certainty in winning - as shown in Gilbert not winning. If it came down to Gilbert having to beat everyone or the 'gamble' of GVA just up against beat Fuglsang - as well if that fails as Gilbert maybe winning anyway, I think that's fairly obviously an increase in one's chances. A very clear worthwhile throw of the dice imo.

Raam

pelevin wrote: »

Fuglsang is obviously a good rider but whatever a team tries there's no certainty in winning - as shown in Gilbert not winning. If it came down to Gilbert having to beat everyone or the 'gamble' of GVA just up against beat Fuglsang - as well if that fails as Gilbert maybe winning anyway, I think that's fairly obviously an increase in one's chances. A very clear worthwhile throw of the dice imo.

I dunno, man. I think Gilbert's record in this race shows that they did the right thing.

pelevin

Raam wrote: »

I dunno, man. I think Gilbert's record in this race shows that they did the right thing.

I know - we're not going to resolve it here! I just think it was a case of adding to the considerable chance they had with Gilbert by letting GVA go on, rather than detracting from it. Anyway . . .

dastardly00

Lads, just be happy that GVA didn't win. Think of the shít storm that would caused given his current circumstances.