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Bringing politics into the workplace. Gay Marriage Referendum.

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Comments

  • #302
    billythefish99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭billythefish99


    MrWalsh wrote: »
    Perhaps theyre just not talking to you about it ;)

    My thoughts exactly.

    Out of interest, are we to be allowed talk about the referendum when its over or opposers of equality to be protected indefinitely?


  • #303
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    feargale wrote: »
    A workplace accomodating all viewpoints and judging its workers solely on the quality of their work is a better thing. Yours is the Soviet model.

    I dont see any evidence of workplaces not accommodating all viewpoints - can you give me an example?

    I guess you dont really understand what the Soviet model is.


  • #304
    Goshen
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 116 ✭✭Goshen


    Bad idea for a social club


  • #305
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,290 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    billythefish99 wrote: »
    Out of interest, are we to be allowed talk about the referendum when its over or opposers of equality to be protected indefinitely?

    Protected from what, exactly?


  • #306
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Protected from what, exactly?

    Free speech?


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  • #307
    billythefish99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭billythefish99


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Protected from what, exactly?

    Protected from their colleagues knowing they oppose equal rights, what else?


  • #308
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    cee_jay wrote: »
    You have mentioned this a couple of times now, and to be honest I don't buy it.

    Fair enough.


  • #309
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    RainyDay wrote: »
    You mean like helping gay people to have equal access to marriage to others?
    Keep politics out of the social club. Canvas all you like for or against in your own time.


  • #310
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Keep politics out of the social club. Canvas all you like for or against in your own time.

    Inclusion isn't political, it is inclusion. There are gay people in the workforce, and they are entitled to be treated as equals to everybody else. They are entitled to constitutional recognition of their partnership. They are entitled to be recognised as family under the constitution. They are entitled to the same divorce protections as others.

    If you accept the principle of inclusion, why would you object against actions to achieve this principle.


  • #311
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    RainyDay wrote: »
    Inclusion isn't political, it is inclusion. There are gay people in the workforce, and they are entitled to be treated as equals to everybody else. They are entitled to constitutional recognition of their partnership. They are entitled to be recognised as family under the constitution. They are entitled to the same divorce protections as others.

    If you accept the principle of inclusion, why would you object against actions to achieve this principle.

    Keep political campaigns out of the work place.


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  • #312
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,266 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    RainyDay wrote: »
    Inclusion isn't political, it is inclusion. There are gay people in the workforce, and they are entitled to be treated as equals to everybody else. They are entitled to constitutional recognition of their partnership. They are entitled to be recognised as family under the constitution. They are entitled to the same divorce protections as others.

    If you accept the principle of inclusion, why would you object against actions to achieve this principle.

    That's true but if you're paying people to do a job would you prefer to be paying them to do the job or pay them to be arguing about civil rights?


  • #313
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    That's true but if you're paying people to do a job would you prefer to be paying them to do the job or pay them to be arguing about civil rights?

    Who's arguing, the thread is about a social club event?


  • #314
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,290 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    billythefish99 wrote: »
    Protected from their colleagues knowing they oppose equal rights, what else?

    So what would you do if you knew that one of your colleagues was opposed to equal rights?

    Or if they believed that the way to achieve them was by ending all state recognition of marriage?


  • #315
    Civil Servant13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭Civil Servant13


    The whole Social night (for the purpose of the Yes campaign) has been dropped. Rainbow day too. There'll still be a night out but just not a Peoplepoint SocialPoint night out. The whole situation was handled very well on reflection by senior mgt Friday. End of, as far I'm concerned.

    Peoplepoint by the way is a great place to work typically


  • #316
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    That's true but if you're paying people to do a job would you prefer to be paying them to do the job or pay them to be arguing about civil rights?

    Who's arguing? People are going to discuss these issues anyway. They are adults, it's OK for adults to discuss social issues.
    Black Menorca wrote: »
    Keep political campaigns out of the work place.

    It's not political.


  • #317
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Civil Servant13 wrote: »
    The whole Social night (for the purpose of the Yes campaign) has been dropped. Rainbow day too. There'll still be a night out but just not a Peoplepoint SocialPoint night out. The whole situation was handled very well on reflection by senior mgt Friday. End of, as far I'm concerned.

    Peoplepoint by the way is a great place to work typically
    Really?


  • #318
    Divisadero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 311 ✭✭Divisadero


    Civil Servant13 wrote: »
    The whole Social night (for the purpose of the Yes campaign) has been dropped. Rainbow day too. There'll still be a night out but just not a Peoplepoint SocialPoint night out. The whole situation was handled very well on reflection by senior mgt Friday. End of, as far I'm concerned.

    Peoplepoint by the way is a great place to work typically

    Finally some sense. Perhaps someone alerted the right person in management to this thread. Especially the suggestions of involving the media! Management should have acted as soon as the social night e-mail was circulated and nipped all of this in the bud. But better late than never...


  • #319
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    I've not heard anything about the event still going ahead or not.

    The message from management never referred to the future of the event.


  • #320
    Phantasos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 373 ✭✭Phantasos


    Civil Servant13 wrote: »
    End of, as far I'm concerned.

    For this topic. From my civil service experience, it won't be long before someone else kicks up another fuss about another non-topic.


  • #321
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Phantasos wrote: »
    For this topic. From my civil service experience, it won't be long before someone else kicks up another fuss about another non-topic.

    Is the event going ahead? Is the Yes campaign still benefiting financially from potential proceeds?


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  • #322
    Ccprd97
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 ✭Ccprd97


    The event is still going ahead, independently of the social committee and the office.


  • #323
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Ccprd97 wrote: »
    The event is still going ahead, independently of the social committee and the office.

    So there is still a 90's night going ahead in aid of the Yes Campaign but the organisation of the event is being taken from the Social Club?

    If so, is there a new group set up in PeoplePoint organising it and are they allowed to promote it via work emails or on noticeboards around the building?


  • #324
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    RainyDay wrote: »
    It's not political.

    Of course it is, people will be voting on the matter in a few weeks.


  • #325
    Civil Servant13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭Civil Servant13


    The event is over from a Peoplepoint perspective. As said, the night goes ahead but not under PeoplePoint umbrella. Yes there was sense at the top. Also yes it's an awesome place to work as you generally are working a grade above yourself. Eg CO work is like EO in say revenue and so on and on. Let's end this diabolical discussion


  • #326
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Civil Servant13 wrote: »
    The event is over from a Peoplepoint perspective. As said, the night goes ahead but not under PeoplePoint umbrella. Yes there was sense at the top. Also yes it's an awesome place to work as you generally are working a grade above yourself. Eg CO work is like EO in say revenue and so on and on. Let's end this diabolical discussion

    PeoplePoint isn't a bad place to work overall. But a lot depends on what section you are in. Some sections seem to be very difficult and stressful.

    How do you know the even is going ahead as it seemed it was a Social Club brainchild.


  • #327
    Civil Servant13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭Civil Servant13


    It isn't a bad place to work. There are like 25 vacancies at EO level to be filled in the next few weeks. The HEO competition a few months ago saw 12/24 panel placed from PP and a lot of HEOs got AP last year. If you put your head down and can work hard, you'll get on just well. I worked in Justice before and CO's in PP do more than HEO's there. Unusual location and difficult to get to but great opportunities. Should be a few acting up opportunities each year too


  • #328
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Civil Servant13 wrote: »
    It isn't a bad place to work. There are like 25 vacancies at EO level to be filled in the next few weeks. The HEO competition a few months ago saw 12/24 panel placed from PP and a lot of HEOs got AP last year. If you put your head down and can work hard, you'll get on just well. I worked in Justice before and CO's in PP do more than HEO's there. Unusual location and difficult to get to but great opportunities. Should be a few acting up opportunities each year too

    If you talk to people, not just CO's, in some sections they have a very different view of life in PP. A very stressful and upsetting experience.

    Acting up positions won't count for me as I'm one of the newer CO's.


  • #329
    Civil Servant13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭Civil Servant13


    Civil Servant13 wrote: »
    Don't be thinking like that. Acting up should be bases in ability but again yes it can be stressful. There's been a few times when I have to take a pint of water and throw water on my face, but stress is a challenge. Turn it on its head. I have worked in a few sections in PP and a few different Govt Departments and you have an opportunity to progress with PP. if you are v stressed there is the option of taking to your EO. Would ya not do that. A real plus about PP is the age. Most of the organisation is under 40, another plus


  • #330
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Berserker wrote: »
    Of course it is, people will be voting on the matter in a few weeks.

    That doesn't make it political. It's not a political issue - it's not about any political party.


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  • #331
    Civil Servant13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭Civil Servant13


    Plus good social side to PP. few nights have ended in copper face jacks 😀 happy days


  • #332
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Civil Servant13 wrote: »
    Don't be thinking like that. Acting up should be bases in ability but again yes it can be stressful. There's been a few times when I have to take a pint of water and throw water on my face, but stress is a challenge. Turn it on its head. I have worked in a few sections in PP and a few different Govt Departments and you have an opportunity to progress with PP. if you are v stressed there is the option of taking to your EO. Would ya not do that. A real plus about PP is the age. Most of the organisation is under 40, another plus

    I've heard stories of people fainting at their desks, bursting into tears and other people going out on long term sick leave due to the unacceptable conditions they're being put under.

    I'm lucky enough in my section and have not been put in difficult situations.

    But I am lucky. Some of the people who started with me in other sections are not fully trained up but are supposed to be able to train in newer staff. This is very stressful for them as the responsibility is being put on people there for only 3 months while other more experienced people are playing no part in this training.


  • #333
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    RainyDay wrote: »
    That doesn't make it political. It's not a political issue - it's not about any political party.

    A referendum thats not political. Thats a first. :D


  • #334
    Civil Servant13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭Civil Servant13


    I know a few staff who burst into tears, we are probably talking about the same people Lolz. That said some people need to have some balls. There are a couple of bullies there but if you work hard you'll get past them. I'm thinking of two staff here and the funny thing is they haven't a clue what's going on. It's part the reason CO's train in new CO's. The union side is shocking too. 1 person involved in the union doesn't deserve to be on the payroll, she's that fake, but hey I'm supposed to be the positive person here. It's a case of sink or swim and most people in there are swimming. Keep your head up and if you see anyone struggling, reach out to them


  • #335
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Civil Servant13 wrote: »
    I know a few staff who burst into tears, we are probably talking about the same people Lolz. That said some people need to have some balls. There are a couple of bullies there but if you work hard you'll get past them. I'm thinking of two staff here and the funny thing is they haven't a clue what's going on. It's part the reason CO's train in new CO's. The union side is shocking too. 1 person involved in the union doesn't deserve to be on the payroll, she's that fake, but hey I'm supposed to be the positive person here. It's a case of sink or swim and most people in there are swimming. Keep your head up and if you see anyone struggling, reach out to them

    You might be trying to sell PP as a positive place to work but with comments like that in bold, tells us things are far from ideal. Quite unnerving actually.


  • #336
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Black Menorca wrote: »
    A referendum thats not political. Thats a first. :D
    Not really - most referendums in fact are about social issues and not political. The Constitution is not a political document.


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  • #337
    Civil Servant13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭Civil Servant13


    Every work place has a few people who will sink and a few bullies. I think it's a female thing without being sexist. If you grow a pair of balls and work hard, you'll be grand


  • #338
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    RainyDay wrote: »
    Not really - most referendums in fact are about social issues and not political. The Constitution is not a political document.

    Ok then. :)


  • #339
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Civil Servant13 wrote: »
    Every work place has a few people who will sink and a few bullies. I think it's a female thing without being sexist. If you grow a pair of balls and work hard, you'll be grand

    Saying the words "without being sexist" while making a blatently sexist comment is a little contradictory.


  • #340
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,723 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I'd be a proponent of equality in most if not all cases and would vote YES. Personally, I can't fathom the idea of voting NO, and I think a little less of people who contort themselves to justify voting NO while convincing each other they're not bigoted .

    I also enjoy the social side of work and would really prefer if political issues were left out in order to maximise inclusively of the work crew


  • #341
    Divisadero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 311 ✭✭Divisadero


    Civil Servant13 wrote: »
    Every work place has a few people who will sink and a few bullies. I think it's a female thing without being sexist. If you grow a pair of balls and work hard, you'll be grand

    Or management could actually manage the place.

    Also doing EO work for CO pay might make your day more interesting but it may not improve your or other COs career prospects. Yes if you score highly enough in tests to someday get an interview it will help. But in the big picture why hire EOs when you can get COs to do the same work on the cheap? Although in fairness to Peoplepoint and in spite of your own previous experience Peoplepoint is not the only Civil Service office where this is going on.


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  • #342
    TINA1984
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭TINA1984


    RainyDay wrote: »
    The Constitution is not a political document.

    Now you're just being silly :)


  • #343
    Black Menorca
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭Black Menorca


    Divisadero wrote: »
    Or management could actually manage the place.

    Also doing EO work for CO pay might make your day more interesting but it may not improve you or other COs career prospects. Yes if you score highly enough in tests to someday get an interview it will help. But in the big picture why hire EOs when you can get COs to do the same work on the cheap? Although in fairness to Peoplepoint and in spite of your own previous experience Peoplepoint are not the only Civil Service office where this is going on.
    This is very true.

    When you're on €400 a week, the prospect of doing work of a supervisor on double that amount doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.


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