TUF 21: American Top Team vs Blackzilians

phily2002

Pretty bad season imo, think I'm done with the episode and I'll just skip to the fights. Thought this weeks fight was bad, amazing how so many of them are just going through the motions, haven't seen anyone yet that will make any sort of impact in the ufc...

TimRiggins

Its awful. What promised to be a decent series too, but the standard is brutal. Not one good fight yet, and not just entertaining, fighters seem to be very poor. No well rounded fighters at all and all seem to just focus on one particular skill set.

Was expecting both to have decent guys but Its been a letdown sadly. I'll watch the next normal one because Artem Lobov will be on it but the series is dead.

mailburner

haydar was a breath of fresh air and up till then I was rooting for the blackzillians mainly because of dan lambert
hopefully there's a couple of good fighters to come as none of which we've seen so far will have any future in the ufc
goes without saying it's has been dire yet it promised so much

DeVore

I watched all 7 episodes this morning (I had a slow day yeah?).... wow all the fights sucked hard. Every single one of the episodes apart from the one where the guy did his cut wrong and seized, have consisted entirely of the coaches/teammates going on and on about how great their next fighter is and then cut to the guy getting beat by a laughable bad opponent.

You can see Dana White thinking "you are SINKING my franchise"

He should do Asians versus Eastern Europeans because they seem to be the most likely to fight. (except that Grillo guy... he's taken one too many punches imho lol)

MagicIRL

They should revamp TUF where fans vote online to make the match-ups and run the show on a weekly basis similar to your X Factor etc. Liven things up a little.

Dtp1979

MagicIRL wrote: »

They should revamp TUF where fans vote online to make the match-ups and run the show on a weekly basis similar to your X Factor etc. Liven things up a little.

Oh Jaysus delete that post or Simon cowell will be all over your idea

Foxtrol

MagicIRL wrote: »

They should revamp TUF where fans vote online to make the match-ups and run the show on a weekly basis similar to your X Factor etc. Liven things up a little.

Cant see them ever doing a 'live' season again. When they did that for their first year on fox the fighters were going insane being in the house that long.

Having online votes wouldn't shake things up too much as you don't really care about most of the fighters on a given season so why would you want to vote after the ones you care about have fought? It would probably lead to the best guys fighting the best guys in the first round and then mismatches the rest of the way.

I think one of the basic problems is that the UFC has now gotten so big that there just isnt the talent in the States that isn't signed up.

A problem specifically for this season is that with the fighters own coaches being there they're more likely not to get drawn in to push to be exciting like they would be in the Vegas gym and Dana screaming at them.

Dtp1979

Comeback season 2 badly needed

Foxtrol

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Comeback season 2 badly needed

What division are you thinking? Presume you're talking about another title shot I'm guessing it would have to be one of the shallower ones.

Dtp1979

Foxtrol wrote: »

What division are you thinking? Presume you're talking about another title shot I'm guessing it would have to be one of the shallower ones.

No need for a title shot. That's unfair I think. Maybe bump the winner into the top 5 rankings and 100k prize money. I'd say welterweight

Paully D

Ladbrokes have this priced up now if anyone wants a punt?



I thought Hassan would be favourite based on what we've seen so far.

Interesting to see Usman favourite at a short-ish price considering he won a reasonably comfortable decision in week 1 but hasn't really been seen or heard of since. Do they know something we don't about what's going to happen over the next few episodes before the finale?

Either way, I'll have a small punt on Hassan for interest at that price even though I haven't really been impressed with anyone on this series.

mailburner

with you on hayder for value
wouldnt touch carl at 11/2
bit sceptical as to how usman is such a short priced fav also

Paully D

mailburner wrote: »

with you on hayder for value
wouldnt touch carl at 11/2
bit sceptical as to how usman is such a short priced fav also

Blackzilian's 1/2 to be the winning team too, ATT 11/8.

mailburner

Paully D wrote: »

Blackzilian's 1/2 to be the winning team too, ATT 11/8.

it looks a gift that
hayder had a tough fight there so wont be rescuing them for a while id imagine

Mellor

I haven't watched the last few episodes, how do they determine the winning fighter if this season isn't an elimination bracket?
And the winning team is simply the most points at the end of it all right?

DrPhilG

Mellor wrote: »

I haven't watched the last few episodes, how do they determine the winning fighter if this season isn't an elimination bracket?
And the winning team is simply the most points at the end of it all right?

Winner of the season is the team with the most points. I think both coaches pick a guy from each team to fight at the finale, and Dana/the UFC also pick 1 fight.

The outcome is that there will only be 2 TUF fights at the TUF finale I believe.

Mellor

DrPhilG wrote: »

Winner of the season is the team with the most points. I think both coaches pick a guy from each team to fight at the finale, and Dana/the UFC also pick 1 fight.

The outcome is that there will only be 2 TUF fights at the TUF finale I believe.

And for the purposes of the show, the coaches pick is the "TUF winner", is that right?
I'm just thinking that there's a very real opportunity to get one over the bookie here. It's basically a two horse race, the decision has already been made. If somebody was able to find out they could guarantee a profit

Paully D

Mellor wrote: »

And for the purposes of the show, the coaches pick is the "TUF winner", is that right?
I'm just thinking that there's a very real opportunity to get one over the bookie here. It's basically a two horse race, the decision has already been made. If somebody was able to find out they could guarantee a profit

Yep. I made a nice few quid on The Apprentice years ago thanks to this. The bookmakers stopped offering odds on the show after that series unfortunately. Why they offer odds on anything that's pre-recorded is beyond me but anyway, if they're there to be got at we might as well shoot.

That's why I'm extremely skeptical about the Usman price in that they must know or have heard something. There's just no way on earth anyone who has followed the show could make him a 13/8 favourite based on what we have seen thus far. He won a scrappy decision in the 1st fight and hasn't been seen or heard from since.

Though I've been trying to place a bet on Hassan just there and can't see to get it to work even though the market is still listed on Oddschecker. I'll fire them an email and see what the story is. Doesn't look good though, they might have pulled it.

Paully D

Well I guess we know what the bookies knew about Usman now! :pac: The market has been pulled too it seems. It's nowhere to be seen on Oddschecker any more.

Certainly shaping up to be an Usman v Hassan finale now you'd think?

dilapidating

Pretty sure Usman has been touted as a future contender for a little while now. Remember reading an article about him.
They were expecting big things from him which could have contributed to his short odds.

Paully D

Montgomery has been signed up anyway as he is scheduled to fight on the Machida v Romero card. It'll be interesting to see who else gets signed. Usman and Hayder will for sure. I can't say I'd be too keen on any of the other ATT guys if I were the UFC.

http://www.ufc.com/news/UFC-Required-To-Make-Adjustments-To-Machida-Vs-Romero-Event?utm_campaign=UFC&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1434750472

Bouts scheduled for UFC FIGHT NIGHT®: MACHIDA vs. ROMERO:

• A middleweight bout that features TUF Brazil 3 champion Antonio Carlos Junior (5-1; Rio de Janeiro, Brazil) versus fellow TUF winner Eddie “Truck” Gordon (8-3; Uniondale, N.Y.)

• Middleweight Steve Bosse (10-1; St-Jean Sur Richelieu, Quebec, Canada) vs. Thiago Santos (10-3; Rio de Janeiro, Brazil)

• Featherweights Hacran Dias (22-3-1; Rio de Janeiro, Brazil) vs. Levan Makashvili (10-1; Oceanside, NY)

• Hard-hitting welterweight Alex Oliveira (11-2-1, 1 NC; Rio de Janeiro, Brazil), who most recently defeated KJ Noons, vs. UFC newcomer Joe Merritt (6-0; Rancho Cucamonga, Calif.).

• Welterweights Leandro “Buscape” Silva (17-2-1, 1 NC; Sao Paulo, Brazil) vs. Lewis Gonzalez (10-1; Turlock, Calif.), also making his UFC debut

• A battle between hungry UFC newcomers and welterweights Steve Montgomery (8-2; Boca Raton, Fla.) vs. Tony Sims (11-2; Denver, Colo.)

Paully D

The market is back on Ladbrokes.

Usman into 1/1 from 13/8, Hayder into 9/4 from 4's. Everyone else 9's +.

Blackzilian's now 1/12 to win from 1/2. ATT out to 11/2.

Dtp1979

ATT coach Dan. What an asshole. Challenging a non fighter to a grappling match with one hand tied behind his back. Part of me wishes glen took him on and tapped him

Paully D

Steve Montgomery suffered a heavy KO on the Machida/Romero card last night.

Dtp1979 wrote: »

ATT coach Dan. What an asshole. Challenging a non fighter to a grappling match with one hand tied behind his back. Part of me wishes glen took him on and tapped him

Yeah, he's a dick. He has actively made me want to see ATT fighters get beat these days purely down to how much of an arsehole he has been on this show :pac:

Paully D

Shocked that the referee didn't stop that fight.

akelly02

Paully D wrote: »

Shocked that the referee didn't stop that fight.

joke really. he was done for. How the other guy let hm take his neck like that was ridiculous though

Paully D

akelly02 wrote: »

joke really. he was done for. How the other guy let hm take his neck like that was ridiculous though

Looked like Jackson thought the referee was jumping in to stop the fight when he (the referee) grabbed Jackson's hand. That seemed to throw him off a bit. For someone who "popped something in his back" the day before, Graves seemed suspiciously sprightly on fight day.

I hate to sound all tin-foil hat, but is it just a massive coincidence that what happened this week happened when ATT needed a win to bring it to a winner takes all fight on the last episode of the series? It certainly makes for better television.

I'm going to say that if that fight took place any other week, it would have been stopped and Blackzilians awarded the win.

John_D80

I only watched it this morning and I was very much 50/50 on the stoppage. For me he was barely just about doing enough to keep himself in it until I saw him at the end and he could barely stand.

akelly02

Paully D wrote: »

Looked like Jackson thought the referee was jumping in to stop the fight when he (the referee) grabbed Jackson's hand. That seemed to throw him off a bit. For someone who "popped something in his back" the day before, Graves seemed suspiciously sprightly on fight day.

I hate to sound all tin-foil hat, but is it just a massive coincidence that what happened this week happened when ATT needed a win to bring it to a winner takes all fight on the last episode of the series? It certainly makes for better television.

I'm going to say that if that fight took place any other week, it would have been stopped and Blackzilians awarded the win.

Agree. Looked staged being honest

DeVore

Any ref who let a fighter take that sort of punishment should never ref again.... I find it suspect because as I understand it these fights are classed as "exhibitions" and so maybe the ref's aren't from the Nevada State Commission? (anyone know?)
You certainly don't seem to see the usual names reffing them. If the ref is a UFC guy then I call bull sh*t on the whole thing.

All that said, Mike Graves is certainly one hard mofo. Jackson should have simply stood up and let the ref try to restart the fight on their feet and it would have quickly been seen to be a farce and (hopefully) stopped!

Foxtrol

Paully D wrote: »

Looked like Jackson thought the referee was jumping in to stop the fight when he (the referee) grabbed Jackson's hand. That seemed to throw him off a bit. For someone who "popped something in his back" the day before, Graves seemed suspiciously sprightly on fight day.

I hate to sound all tin-foil hat, but is it just a massive coincidence that what happened this week happened when ATT needed a win to bring it to a winner takes all fight on the last episode of the series? It certainly makes for better television.

I'm going to say that if that fight took place any other week, it would have been stopped and Blackzilians awarded the win.

Your tin-foil hat theory totally ignores that if they were going to try to help ATT win surely they would have just called the low blow, which is the only reason why Graves ended up in that position in the first place.

John_D80

The low blow was very easily missed in fairness. The blackzilian fighters foot connected cleanly with the midsection.

Dtp1979

Paully D wrote: »

Shocked that the referee didn't stop that fight.

Why? Graves too little or no head shots. Most were defended or near misses. He took a lot of punishment to the side of his body but that's it.

Mellor

DeVore wrote: »

Any ref who let a fighter take that sort of punishment should never ref again

I disagree. The fighter stupidly kept switching to the body and letting his head recover. If he stuck with landing headshots it would have been stopped.

I find it suspect because as I understand it these fights are classed as "exhibitions" and so maybe the ref's aren't from the Nevada State Commission? (anyone know?)

You certainly don't seem to see the usual names reffing them. If the ref is a UFC guy then I call bull sh*t on the whole thing.

It's in Florida, not Nevada.
The guy was a FSAC ref I'd assume.

All that said, Mike Graves is certainly one hard mofo. Jackson should have simply stood up and let the ref try to restart the fight on their feet and it would have quickly been seen to be a farce and (hopefully) stopped!

Yeah. Jackson did everything he could to not win that fight.

Foxtrol

John_D80 wrote: »

The low blow was very easily missed in fairness. The blackzilian fighters foot connected cleanly with the midsection.

I agree it could be missed but the poster was pretty much saying it was rigged and if that was the case then the ref would have definitely stepped in when Graves was shouting about a low shot.

The fight could have been stopped but it's not outrageous that it wasn't.

MrStuffins

Just me who thinks it wasn't as bad as people are making out? He was defending himself. Sure he was taking punishment but he was defending himself. Intelligently at that! Why should it be stopped? He was obviously still in the fight.

Dtp1979

MrStuffins wrote: »

Just me who thinks it wasn't as bad as people are making out? He was defending himself. Sure he was taking punishment but he was defending himself. Intelligently at that! Why should it be stopped? He was obviously still in the fight.

Couldn't agree more

DeVore

Curling up into a ball is not defending yourself intelligently. After 30 seconds of his opponent just picking where to hit him without any regard for being hit back, I would have said the fight should have been over. Those repeated knees to the ribs were particularly bad, not to mention dangerous.

DrPhilG

The TUF finale in Vegas is looking like a complete turd.

Barely 25% of tickets sold. Dana will be giving them out like sweeties all weekend.

shanec1928

DrPhilG wrote: »

The TUF finale in Vegas is looking like a complete turd.

Barely 25% of tickets sold. Dana will be giving them out like sweeties all weekend.

it was to be in Florida no?

DrPhilG

shanec1928 wrote: »

it was to be in Florida no?

Originally yes, but moved to Vegas to coincide with 189.

MrStuffins

DeVore wrote: »

Curling up into a ball is not defending yourself intelligently. After 30 seconds of his opponent just picking where to hit him without any regard for being hit back, I would have said the fight should have been over. Those repeated knees to the ribs were particularly bad, not to mention dangerous.

He wasn't JUST curling into a ball though. He was moving his arms and hands in order to block where he thought he was being hit. That's why Jackson was changing it up so much. He had to because Graves was blocking. sure, he was there for a long time, but he was defending and, as the fight showed, he was still in it. At no point did he look like he was unable to continue.

Also, of course the knees were dangerous. That's the point. If we stopped fights for every time there was something dangerous, there was be no sport of MMA.

Dtp1979

Rarely will you see a judge stop a fight for body shots. I don't see why they would. There was absolutely no damage to graves head and he was in no danger of being knocked out. He did the sensible thing and cover his head instead of dropping his hands to cover the body shots, so in a sense, he was intelligently defending himself. I'd say the ref did a great job actually, except for missing the groin kick, which was hard to spot in the first place

Paully D

What do people think about the series as a whole then? Was the differing format something you enjoyed or not?

Mellor

Paully D wrote: »

What do people think about the series as a whole then? Was the differing format something you enjoyed or not?

It's a bit meh overall. I expect the drama and ignore it, but the fights are fairly poor too.
Most of these guys have been around the block a few times, they are from gyms with solid connections to the UFC. If they were good enough for a good UFC run they’d be there by now.
Most have mediocre records built on the likes of Belator and WSOF, and I think their fights don’t show a drive to “make it” to the UFC. Aimed towards the older guys only, the younger fighters could have UFC potential in future of course.

DeVore

Yeah, I feel the same as Mellor mostly. Some of them have a distinct bang of "has been" about them. The episodes of TUF have always been the same format (first half smack talk, second half fight) but this series, it seems like all we have been shown in the first half is camera interviews with the fighter, his coach, or his rah-rahhing team mates. They all say the same things (imam smash him, this guy is the second coming of Christ for mma) and then they put on a fairly lacklustre fight where one of them "doesn't perform like he can". Rinse and repeat.

I don't see much personality or charisma in any of them to connect with... and while usually I wouldn't care about that, I'd be all about their skills etc... its a show which asks us to get emotionally connected with people in the house and root for them. Honestly, I couldn't name the fighters this season beyond Hayder. And he's a bit of a dick.

MrStuffins

........ What a fight!!

Paully D

MrStuffins wrote: »

........ What a fight!!

Saw the result but didn't watch the episode yet. Deserved win for Hassan? Seems strange to me that Blackzilian's didn't go with their best guy (Usman). ATT did and get the win. Fantastic comeback from them.

MrStuffins

Paully D wrote: »

Saw the result but didn't watch the episode yet. Deserved win for Hassan? Seems strange to me that Blackzilian's didn't go with their best guy (Usman). ATT did and get the win. Fantastic comeback from them.

Split decision. Could've gone either way. I thought the Blackzillian won the first two rounds (and therefore the fight) but it went to a third. Very very tough fight to call.

Hassan though, he's about as one dimensional as they come. He knows how to throw a jab and sometimes and one-two with power and that's about it

stiffler123

Last 2 fights were great, crap season overall though. Heyder practically won it for ATT by himself, have to root for him in the finale now.

Will be glad to see the back of Glen and Dan.