Graham Dwyer court case *READ FIRST POST BEFORE POSTING*

Lollipops23

stickybookmark wrote: »

No you don't get me. Let's call the person who made the anonymous tip off Person A. How did Person A know that GD was anything to do with EOH?
Why, when Person A heard that EOH body had been found, would they even link EOH to GD??

Perhaps they were a friend of Elaine's and she confided in them about the texting?

brooke 2

stickybookmark wrote: »

No you don't get me. Let's call the person who made the anonymous tip off Person A. How did Person A know that GD was anything to do with EOH?
Why, when Person A heard that EOH body had been found, would they even link EOH to GD??

EOH's remains were found on September 13th. She was identified through her
dental records at the Dental Hospital.

The BDSM paraphernalia and some items of women's clothing were discovered
in Roundwood reservoir on September 10th and left into the local garda station
the following day. A few days later, Garda O'Donoghue from Roundwood went up
to the reservoir to carry out a search and discovered a set of keys which had a
Dunnes Stores shopping tag attached to it. As you probably know, he contacted
Dunnes Stores who informed him that the owner was EOH. When he put her name
into PULSE, he discovered that she had been missing for almost thirteen months.
He contacted his superiors and thus began the full blown investigation into her
death.

All the above occurred about the middle of September; the anonymous call was
made on September 27th, iirc. Perhaps, some details which had been reported in
the media in the intervening weeks had reminded the caller of Graham Dwyer?
EOH was not the only woman he had attacked.

seamus

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Perhaps they were a friend of Elaine's and she confided in them about the texting?

I find it hard to believe that a friend or colleague of Elaine's would know this information and not mention it to Gardai when she first went missing. It's one of the first questions you ask in a missing person's case - have they recently been involved in any kind of relationship. Unfortunately outside of suicide, a partner is usually the culprit in any missing persons' case.

I still maintain the Gardai knew but didn't want to alert him, but a theory posted a few posts back is pretty plausible. That Dwyer had a second submissive on the go who was aware of Elaine. When EOH went missing the sub probably wouldn't have been compelled to come forward - preferring to respect the anonymity of her relationship with Dwyer rather than potentially ruin it by needlessly coming forward if EOH had committed suicide.
Then when EOH's body was found and a murder investigation confirmed, the sub would have seen fit to come forward with what she knew.

Seems like a reasonable theory to me.

Lollipops23

seamus wrote: »

preferring to respect the anonymity of her relationship with Dwyer rather than potentially ruin it by needlessly coming forward if EOH had committed suicide.

Seems like a reasonable theory to me.

It does make sense that someone into the type of lifestyle would want to stay anon throughout the process. I can't imagine I'd want to discuss my sexual preferences in a courtroom unless I absolutely had to, and I'm not even into kink.

Ash.J.Williams

Sounds fairly obvious to me, you're in a relationship that involves BDSM..the guy seems a little too fond of the Knife and stabbing fantasies, ...you break it off because he's too rough, a girl is found dead, BDSM gear turns up in a resevoir...."jeeaysus that sounds like GD, i better make a call to the cops"

Ice Storm

I thought that whoever made the anonymous tip off had said that Elaine had been involved with Graham Dwyer at the time of her disappearance?

I know that she had mentioned to a few people that she was seeing someone and I believe she'd told her dad that he was an architect but I don't recall hearing about anyone from her friends / family who knew his identity.

So maybe it did come from someone who knew about her through GD.

Simon2015

El Weirdo wrote: »

Whenever I hear or see stuff like this, I imagine that the vast majority of people that trot this bollocks out would shit themselves at the mere thought of spending a week inside.

I woundn't mind going to jail I have not had a holiday in years.

The prisons in Ireland are basically holiday camps.

Just look at this video the prisoners in Portlaoise prison are having the time of their lives.

MonsterCookie

Simon2015 wrote: »

I woundn't mind going to jail I have not had a holiday in years.

The prisons in Ireland are basically holiday camps.

Just look at this video the prisoners in Portlaoise prison are having the time of their lives.

So based on this, you'd like to be in there joining in the party with rapists, druggies, murders etc? Yeah right...

Dwarf.Shortage

Simon2015 wrote: »

I woundn't mind going to jail I have not had a holiday in years.

The prisons in Ireland are basically holiday camps.

Just look at this video the prisoners in Portlaoise prison are having the time of their lives.

A s**t load of decrepit looking creatures singing badly out of tune and neither a drop of porter nor a member of the fairer sex in sight. Mate if that's comparable to your holidays you need to consider a new travel agent.

Roquentin

the three chinese lads seem a bit confused (in the video)

stickybookmark

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Sounds fairly obvious to me, you're in a relationship that involves BDSM..the guy seems a little too fond of the Knife and stabbing fantasies, ...you break it off because he's too rough, a girl is found dead, BDSM gear turns up in a resevoir...."jeeaysus that sounds like GD, i better make a call to the cops"

That's the thing though I don't think it was published in the papers that BDSM gear was found. The very first time I heard of BDSM being associated with this case was the opening week of the trial

sully2010

Can anyone tell me what Graham Dwyers defense was? That it was an accidental stabbing or she stabbed herself? Haven't heard much about what his defense was.

HeidiHeidi

sully2010 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what Graham Dwyers defense was? That it was an accidental stabbing or she stabbed herself? Haven't heard much about what his defense was.

He didn't put up a defence.

sully2010

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

He didn't put up a defence.

Oh right, cheers. Beggars belief how smug he was thinking he'd be acquited

saltandpepper10

We're do the sheep come into this,two farmers were questioned about a couple of dead sheep was he suspected of stabbing those aswell:eek:

Stheno

saltandpepper10 wrote: »

We're do the sheep come into this,two farmers were questioned about a couple of dead sheep was he suspected of stabbing those aswell:eek:

One of his texts talked about stabbing a dead sheep

Simon2015

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

A s**t load of decrepit looking creatures singing badly out of tune and neither a drop of porter nor a member of the fairer sex in sight. Mate if that's comparable to your holidays you need to consider a new travel agent.

Well atleast I would get free sports and a free gym etc.

In many ways the prisoners are better off than me.

Roquentin

Simon2015 wrote: »

Well atleast I would get free sports and a free gym etc.

In many ways the prisoners are better off than me.

no bills as well

Simon2015

Roquentin wrote: »

no bills as well

Its no wonder most prisoners keep reoffending is because they have it too easy in jail.

Roquentin

Simon2015 wrote: »

Its no wonder most prisoners keep reoffending is because they have it too easy in jail.

yea i remember telling someone once that id nearly start growing and distributing weed just to be caught and get put in jail and never have to worry about another day in my life.

LadyAthame

John_Rambo wrote: »

In the end Dwyer shattered lots of lives. Elaine's family, His Dads, his kids, his wife's and his sons. Shame on him.

His kids will know about this at some stage. It's not like years ago, unfortunately you can't just hide these things years down the line any more. Very sad.

I imagine the wife and kids will seek new identities if possible.

Ash.J.Williams

did everyone miss the case? The entire case was live tweeted you can read all the facts there

haveringchick

sully2010 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what Graham Dwyers defense was? That it was an accidental stabbing or she stabbed herself? Haven't heard much about what his defense was.

His defence lasted one 1/2 hour. His arrogance was breathtaking. He decided aapparently that the prosecutions evidence was so weak that there was no possibility of a conviction.
Now I can't imagine that his defence team agreed with him so obviously they were just following his instructions.
He ggenuinely seemed to be saying "yes I killed it. It didn't deserve to live anyway, but bbecause im so clever , you can't prove I killed it. So go ahead and have your silly trial. I'll walk out of here at the end and go back to my old life and I'll sue the state for defamation and stressing me out. You people should be thanking me for ddisposing of rubbish like that thing that I killed".

Mallagio

Simon2015 wrote: »

Well atleast I would get free sports and a free gym etc.

In many ways the prisoners are better off than me.

Out of interest, what would you do with criminals?

Simon2015

Mallagio wrote: »

Out of interest, what would you do with criminals?

The likes of Graham Dwyer I would have put down hes a waste of oxygen.

Mallagio

Simon2015 wrote: »

The likes of Graham Dwyer I would have put down hes a waste of oxygen.

You might have a point there in regards to GD, but what about the rest of the criminals that are sentenced to time?

Simon2015

Mallagio wrote: »

what about the rest of the criminals that are sentenced to time?

I'd take away their sky sports etc.

John_Rambo

saltandpepper10 wrote: »

We're do the sheep come into this,two farmers were questioned about a couple of dead sheep was he suspected of stabbing those aswell:eek:

Dwyer texted about stabbing a sheep.

Dwyer's defence team had two sheep farmers on the stand and asked them if they found any dead sheep on the day he texted about them. (both farmed where Dwyer flew his toy airplanes). There were no dead sheep.

Defence; Graham Dwyer texted about a lot of things (including stabbing). Not all of them actually happened.

Sala

I Thought I read an article before the trial saying he was suffering mentally after he killed her, but I can't seem to find it and it doesn't seem to fit in with everything saying he showed no remorse? Did anyone else read that? I presume that would have been an element of the trial so I must be mistaken or the article/blog was

realdanbreen

Roquentin wrote: »

yea i remember telling someone once that id nearly start growing and distributing weed just to be caught and get put in jail and never have to worry about another day in my life.

Why don't you,you don't appear to be exactly having a whale of a time on the outside!

Roquentin

realdanbreen wrote: »

Why don't you,you don't appear to be exactly having a whale of a time on the outside!

you are talking to a computer screen

Dwarf.Shortage

Roquentin wrote: »

you are talking to a computer screen

As are you.

Roquentin

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

As are you.

as are you

Dwarf.Shortage

Roquentin wrote: »

as are you

He started it.

Danbo!

Sala wrote: »

I Thought I read an article before the trial saying he was suffering mentally after he killed her, but I can't seem to find it and it doesn't seem to fit in with everything saying he showed no remorse? Did anyone else read that? I presume that would have been an element of the trial so I must be mistaken or the article/blog was

Yes but nothing was said about it during the trial. It was before he was identified in the media, when lots of small details were coming out about him.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/texts-on-married-businessmans-phone-linked-him-to-elaine-ohara-29670257.html

"The man who was arrested yesterday had been been getting frequent medical attention in the aftermath of the discovery of Elaine's body."

Dwarf.Shortage

Danbo! wrote: »

Yes but nothing was said about it during the trial. It was before he was identified in the media, when lots of small details were coming out about him. I also remember reading it was St John of Gods, but cannot find that particular article.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/texts-on-married-businessmans-phone-linked-him-to-elaine-ohara-29670257.html

"The man who was arrested yesterday had been been getting frequent medical attention in the aftermath of the discovery of Elaine's body."

In the aftermath of her body being discovered, the thought of getting caught obviously shook him. There's no evidence he required any care in the 12 months after murdering her when he thought he was getting away with it.

Allyall

So how was he getting treatment for, a week?

Possibly a month at most.

strandroad

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

In the aftermath of her body being discovered, the thought of getting caught obviously shook him.

When you think about it, it could have been what convinced his wife about his guilt.

Turtwig

Danbo! wrote: »

Yes but nothing was said about it during the trial. It was before he was identified in the media, when lots of small details were coming out about him.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/texts-on-married-businessmans-phone-linked-him-to-elaine-ohara-29670257.html

"The man who was arrested yesterday had been been getting frequent medical attention in the aftermath of the discovery of Elaine's body."

That's so weird that they didn't mention it.
Surely a plausible scenario could have been that he was distraught at the discovery of her death. He cared deeply about Elaine and he was in fact innocent of her murder. Unable to think straight in the immediate aftermath and when questioned by Gardai.

Why the fck wouldn't you mention that?

Dwarf.Shortage

Turtwig wrote: »

That's so weird that they didn't mention it.
Surely a plausible scenario could have been that he was distraught at the discovery of her death. He cared deeply about Elaine and he was in fact innocent of her murder. Unable to think straight in the immediate aftermath and when questioned by Gardai.

Why the fck wouldn't you mention that?

Because it's in no way plausible as evidenced by the recovered text messages.

Turtwig

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Because it's in no way plausible as evidenced by the recovered text messages.

I disagree. You could argue that in fantasy role play settings, he was just in part of an act. Get a dozen BDSM'ers to testify that ethics don't always have make sense in the fantasy role-plays. He also thought Elaine was just "acting" her part.

For a trial so heavily based on circumstantial evidence, surely the strategy would be to try to sow the seeds of doubt wherever possible. It wouldn't have to be entirely plausible, it would have just to be enough to plant seeds of doubt.

Seems a bizarre omission by the defence to me.

Dwarf.Shortage

Turtwig wrote: »

Get a dozen BDSM'ers to testify that ethics don't always have make sense in the fantasy role-plays.

It's not a question of ethics. If Elaine O'Hara had signed a contract with him saying he had permission to kill her and he had done so he would still be guilty of murder. There is no ethics loophole nor a "her role in our BDSM relationship was to let me stab her to death" loophole.

Allyall

He was arrested a week after her body was discovered. I don't think she was identified until 5 or 6 days after, or at least, the Public didn't know.
So I doubt he could've said it was because he was upset. If anything, it may have made him look more guilty, as he was the only person that knew where she was.

Turtwig

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

It's not a question of ethics. If Elaine O'Hara had signed a contract with him saying he had permission to kill her and he had done so he would still be guilty of murder. There is no ethics loophole nor a "her role in our BDSM relationship was to let me stab her to death" loophole.

You spectacularly missed the point.

It was in relation to the text messages. Point out that fantasies aren't the same as reality. Graham, loved Elaine and thought she was just playing along too. It's just another plausible story - made even stronger if you got a public "celeb" expert on these things to make that point in front of the jury.

The point is that there was no direct evidence linking him to her death. Only indirect stuff and it looks like his defence team made a piss poor effort in actually attempting to provide other plausible explanations for those items.

Dwarf.Shortage

Turtwig wrote: »

Point out that fantasies aren't the same as reality.

Difficult in the presence of resounding evidence that he had prolifically acted on his fantasy, evidence he was kind enough to keep on the hard drive of his computer, one of the first places anyone would look if he was under investigation.

NachoBusiness

Turtwig wrote: »

The point is that there was no direct evidence linking him to her death. Only indirect stuff and it looks like his defence team made a piss poor effort in actually attempting to provide other plausible explanations for those items.

But they would know that any argument that they made would be so easily torn apart given that the sim cards and phones were found together. Had they been found in separate places and had Dwyer made calls from the master sim to the slave sim after that last time she was seen alive, even if to just give the impression that he believed her to be alive, then the argument you put forth could well be argued by the defense but the fact that he never used the sim again in any way and it was found along with the other one is really the smoking gun here, if there can be such a thing with circumstantial evidence, and I believe there can.

Dwarf.Shortage

NachoBusiness wrote: »

But they would know that any argument that they made would be so easily torn apart given that the sim cards and phones were found together. Had they been found in separate places and had Dwyer made calls from the master sim to the slave sim after that last time she was seen alive, even if to just give the impression that he believed her to be alive, then the argument you put forth could well be argued by the defense but the fact that he never used the sim again in any way and it was found along with the other one is really the smoking gun here, if there can be such a thing with circumstantial evidence, and I believe there can.

That's an excellent point, if he'd held onto the master phone and sent a few texts to the slave phone over the week or two after the murder, normal at first then asking if she was ok etc when she wasn't replying. All he has to say then is "yeah I met her down there to have sex but she was off the rails talking about committing suicide and I told her to calm down then she stormed off."

Proving that wasn't true with the circumstantial evidence they had would be tough, hindsight is 20/20 I suppose.

Allyall

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

That's an excellent point, if he'd held onto the master phone and sent a few texts to the slave phone over the week or two after the murder, normal at first then asking if she was ok etc when she wasn't replying. All he has to say then is "yeah I met her down there to have sex but she was off the rails talking about committing suicide and I told her to calm down then she stormed off."

Proving that wasn't true with the circumstantial evidence they had would be tough, hindsight is 20/20 I suppose.

He thought the phones were 'untraceable', as they weren't even in his name. So he may have been better off sticking to the "That's not my phone, I know nothing about it".
Except, he seems to have brought it everywhere with him. That was entirely circumstantial. The phone went where he went, ergo it was his phone.


As for "hindsight is 20/20". He thought he had everything covered, including not burying her (As the wildlife would do a better job of disposing, and it could be claimed accidental, natural or suicide.).

I'd say, and I hope he is kicking himself every day, that he didn't completely destroy those phones.
That will chip away over time.

sadie06

Allyall wrote: »

.
Except, he seems to have brought it everywhere with him. That was entirely circumstantial. The phone went where he went, ergo it was his phone.

That, and the fact that given the content of the messages, if it wasn't his phone it would have to be a clone of his that owned it, i.e a model-plane-flying architect called Graham with two children, one of whom was born on the day his second child was.

With regards to his carelessness in disposing of incriminating evidence, I think his strict adherence to leading a double life and the demands on his time that this caused played a part in it.

Some of his most appalling texts (such as the ones where he repeatedly offers to end Elaine's misery) are appointment style "I can fit you in on Thursday afternoon" etc, and we know his regular window for indulging his hobby was his unquestioned time away from family.

My own feeling is that he didn't allow enough time to carry out anything further, so eager was he to get back to family and normal life. He arrogantly did as his texts suggested, 'fitted it in' to his regular schedule.

coL

Can someone explain to me why it was necessary for the prosecution to spend so much time and effort (weeks of testimony) going into such detail about the sexual aspects of this case? Genuine question.

I get that they may have needed to show what he was like and establish his character/depravity, but surely the level of evidence and the time spent presenting it was not required to show what type of person he was and what he was into? Why could they not just establish that they were into some kinky stuff and leave it at that, was the quantity of evidence they presented really required?

Listening to the details of the case each day on the radio it seemed to me that a lot of what was presented was not directly relevant to the actual material facts of the case. I couldn't believe it when the defence finished so quickly by comparison.